SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
Cam Mitchell wrote:This thread is so incredibly timely. I've been wondering the same thing.
After spending my Sunday splitting wood by hand, as well as many previous Sundays cutting from the woods as well, I'm growing more and more frustrated with heat procurement.
I thought about a more efficient splitter, and I really like the inertial splitters. But they're too expensive and though I'm into DIY, I don't need another project.
I also think those huge firewood processors are cool and would be way faster but overkill and entirely too expensive.
Cam Mitchell wrote:I agree with your pellet stove assessment, though I've not looked at hard numbers.
Roughly, I can buy pellets for $250 a ton or less, which should last me all winter.
I don't like that I have to go buy pellets, and that I can't easily make them on my own.
Yes, I know there are projects out there to do just that, but again, I don't need another project.
Mike Jay wrote:My conundrum is vacations or tending the fire for a weekend away. I have a natural gas furnace so I have a working system now. But I'd love to not need it and use my copious wood supply to heat all the time. I have a wood stove now and we go through 4 cords a year.
If I could use a biogas digester to make natural gas and compress/store it, then I'd be home free. Build up my natural gas supply all year with food scraps and when I go on vacation for a week in January, the furnace can run on my stockpile.
Mike Jay wrote:Travis, is your original question about mechanizing the process of acquiring the fuel/wood or is it also the mechanization of turning that fuel into heat?
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
Mike Jay wrote:Plus with sunflowers you can eat them or make oil as a side benefit. I use the stalks as replacements for bamboo in the garden.
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
Mike Jay wrote:Travis, now you have me thinking. If I use wood for 90% of my heating and corn for two weeks in the winter, how much acreage would I need for corn? Do you have a number for how much corn you need for a day of heat?
Travis Johnson wrote:There was an interesting conversation on this site regarding Jean Pain’s method of heat, and I am in no way against it, but no matter how I calculated it, the amount of work to use compost heat was far greater than using firewood, or other methods. In other words, by the time I did all the work to makea pile of compost big enough to heat my home, I could produce a few cords of firewood to do the same thing.
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
Chris Watson wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:There was an interesting conversation on this site regarding Jean Pain’s method of heat, and I am in no way against it, but no matter how I calculated it, the amount of work to use compost heat was far greater than using firewood, or other methods. In other words, by the time I did all the work to makea pile of compost big enough to heat my home, I could produce a few cords of firewood to do the same thing.
Did you take into account that once a Jean Pain system is set up, you don't need to touch it again for about 16 months? Firewood needs to be cut and stacked, then some gets re-cut as kindling before being carried to your firebox. It's also an inherent danger (albeit a largely controllable one) inside your home.
Graham Chiu wrote:Why not just grow grass, get cows to eat the grass, sell the milk, and burn the cow dung?
Graham Chiu wrote:Mechanisation has a cost, a loss of the opportunity to do physical labour which wrecks havoc on the body's health. The time you used to spend splitting wood you now have to pay someone to attend their gym.
Graham Chiu wrote:Why not just grow grass, get cows to eat the grass, sell the milk, and burn the cow dung?
Mechanisation has a cost, a loss of the opportunity to do physical labour which wrecks havoc on the body's health. The time you used to spend splitting wood you now have to pay someone to attend their gym.
William Bronson wrote:Mechanizing the process to work over longer periods without interference seems over my head, in no small part due to the difficulty in sourcing an affordable,reliable screw auger.
William Bronson wrote: To me, a happy medium would be the village mill model.
Instead of getting your grain ground into flour in exchange for a cut given to the mill, you could get your wood turned into pellets in exchange for a cut of the rw product.
I think pellets take much more time to process, so you would receive previously made pellets of a similar quality.
A truck load of punky pine branches wouldn't get you much in return.
Depending on the process, feedstocks other than wood might be used.
If we use a wood burner that would autonomously run on woodchips, foresters with chippers could visit with chippers could and process fuel onsite, or individuals with chippers could process their own fuel.
Here is an example of such.
The cost and clean burning of this system may not suit our purposes.
I am interested with using a efficient wood heat, like that from a rocket stove, to jump start the self immolating pyrolysis of woodchips, and store the heat produced in liquid medium.
This seems doable on a homestead scale, with heat being actively produced for long periods without tending.
Should be clean burning as well.
Mechanizing the process to work over longer periods without interference seems over my head, in no small part due to the difficulty in sourcing an affordable,reliable screw auger.
Travis Johnson wrote:
Ever thought of making your own auger?
My 16-month stat is based on Jean Pain's original system. His enormous, low-nitrogen wood piles would take six weeks to heat up and stay hot for 14-16 months. But, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the volume of wood used in that system was insane. Jean Pain was a forester whose job was to clear deadfalls from the forests of Provence for fire suppression. The man had access to wood in quantities that would stagger the average permie. He built conical sections 10m in diameter at the base, 6m in diameter at the top, and 6m tall. That's 1,231.5 cubic meters (over 7,700 barrels) of shredded wood. He gathered the wood over months, then sheredded and assembled it in an afternoon.Travis Johnson wrote:
Chris Watson wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:There was an interesting conversation on this site regarding Jean Pain’s method of heat, and I am in no way against it, but no matter how I calculated it, the amount of work to use compost heat was far greater than using firewood, or other methods. In other words, by the time I did all the work to makea pile of compost big enough to heat my home, I could produce a few cords of firewood to do the same thing.
Did you take into account that once a Jean Pain system is set up, you don't need to touch it again for about 16 months? Firewood needs to be cut and stacked, then some gets re-cut as kindling before being carried to your firebox. It's also an inherent danger (albeit a largely controllable one) inside your home.
I have a lot of experience with compost heat, but never got burns that long, but I have always used a mixture of grass/wood too. I am not saying you are wrong, I do not know. I know my compost piles get hot the first winter, enough for flames, but they are done by summer, and no way they will do anything by next fall.
But firewood, I don't know, it depends on how you do it. If you go back to the beginning of this post you can see that I hardly touch my wood now. But then I thought, "I can do even better."
My original idea was to convert to a firewood chunk system. With my feller-buncher I could fell and haul the trees. Then after building a firewood chunker, feed my trees into the firewood chunker, then dump the firewood chunks into my firewood shed. The only "touch" would be carrying it from the woodshed to the woodstove.
But again, that left me with a less-than touchless heating system, and no way to leave the house. This is a HUGE problem for me because my cancer treatments are going to start up soon a state away. That means my wife cannot be with me because she has to babysit the stove. That sucks. We are married, we should be together on Thanksgiving, Christmas, Cancer Treatments, etc...
But a pellet stove, burning self-produced corn? It would be 100% mechanical, and self-sufficient.
The sunflowers would just be a bonus! Cool factor of 1 million and one. "What are the sunflowers for?" "To heat my house...and the bees love me for it too!"
Chris Watson wrote:
My 16-month stat is based on Jean Pain's original system. His enormous, low-nitrogen wood piles would take six weeks to heat up and stay hot for 14-16 months. But, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the volume of wood used in that system was insane. Jean Pain was a forester whose job was to clear deadfalls from the forests of Provence for fire suppression. The man had access to wood in quantities that would stagger the average permie. He built conical sections 10m in diameter at the base, 6m in diameter at the top, and 6m tall. That's 1,231.5 cubic meters (over 7,700 barrels) of shredded wood. He gathered the wood over months, then sheredded and assembled it in an afternoon.Travis Johnson wrote:
Chris Watson wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:There was an interesting conversation on this site regarding Jean Pain’s method of heat, and I am in no way against it, but no matter how I calculated it, the amount of work to use compost heat was far greater than using firewood, or other methods. In other words, by the time I did all the work to makea pile of compost big enough to heat my home, I could produce a few cords of firewood to do the same thing.
Did you take into account that once a Jean Pain system is set up, you don't need to touch it again for about 16 months? Firewood needs to be cut and stacked, then some gets re-cut as kindling before being carried to your firebox. It's also an inherent danger (albeit a largely controllable one) inside your home.
I have a lot of experience with compost heat, but never got burns that long, but I have always used a mixture of grass/wood too. I am not saying you are wrong, I do not know. I know my compost piles get hot the first winter, enough for flames, but they are done by summer, and no way they will do anything by next fall.
But firewood, I don't know, it depends on how you do it. If you go back to the beginning of this post you can see that I hardly touch my wood now. But then I thought, "I can do even better."
My original idea was to convert to a firewood chunk system. With my feller-buncher I could fell and haul the trees. Then after building a firewood chunker, feed my trees into the firewood chunker, then dump the firewood chunks into my firewood shed. The only "touch" would be carrying it from the woodshed to the woodstove.
But again, that left me with a less-than touchless heating system, and no way to leave the house. This is a HUGE problem for me because my cancer treatments are going to start up soon a state away. That means my wife cannot be with me because she has to babysit the stove. That sucks. We are married, we should be together on Thanksgiving, Christmas, Cancer Treatments, etc...
But a pellet stove, burning self-produced corn? It would be 100% mechanical, and self-sufficient.
The sunflowers would just be a bonus! Cool factor of 1 million and one. "What are the sunflowers for?" "To heat my house...and the bees love me for it too!"
That's the part that appeals to me. You have cancer (and my prayers) which affects your decisions. I thankfully don't have cancer. What I have is lumbar spinal stenosis that usually isn't bad. I can perform hard work for a day, then I'm on my easy chair for a day or two with a heating pad and some good Scotch. My goal is the fewest recuperation days per BTU. A slow-burn without nitrogen can provide that.
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