Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
Be the shenanigans
you want to see in the world.
List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
Moderator, Treatment Free Beekeepers group on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/treatmentfreebeekeepers/
List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
Examine your lifestyle, multiply it by 7.7 billion other ego-monkeys with similar desires and query whether that global impact is conscionable.
Michael Cox wrote:I'm going to say that no, the Amazon was not a permaculture project.
Many of the elements of the Amazonian landscape might be familiar to permies, but that does not make it permaculture.
Fundamentally, permaculture is a form of intentional design. A permaculture practitioner observes their environment and makes decisions for intervention based on extensive theoretical and practical knowledge of what has and has not worked in other different and similar situations. There is a huge degree of scientific understanding underpinning our perspective of the world, even if it is not made explicit in our thought processes and decision making.
I think a permie might have many things in common with an Amazonian tribesman when it comes to how they plan and use their environment. But it is more akin to convergent evolution; two paths arriving at similar destinations.
Permaculture...picking the lock back to Eden since 1978.
Pics of my Forest Garden
Bryant RedHawk wrote:Many parts of the Amazon have been human occupied for thousands of years so it isn't, or shouldn't be, that surprising that those people would plant trees they wanted where they wanted them.
Many of the Amazonian peoples have wonderful stories of how the forest became so full of medicinal plants, food plants and shelter supply plants and they even talk about where some of the items came from in the beginning.
I personally don't find it as "unbelievable" as some of my colleges have seemed to think it is. Trade must have gone on way back when, how else could plants found further north only, have gotten into the basin area?
Rivers are always the original highways in the areas where there are rivers and most people will build their villages where they have easiest access to all the things they need to live well.
Redhawk
List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
I don't think open-pit burning disqualifies the ancient amazonians from having practiced proto-permaculture. There was much less harm possible than today, by virtue of the lower population numbers, and the lower negative impact of their lifestyles. No dioxins being produced
Examine your lifestyle, multiply it by 7.7 billion other ego-monkeys with similar desires and query whether that global impact is conscionable.
when you're going through hell, keep going!
My land teaches me how to farm
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Meg Mitchell wrote:
I personally think a big part of permaculture and sustainable living is ensuring that you're not producing more children than you can personally care for. As far as I know, the indigenous people in my area had no issue with that, but nowadays there are an awful lot of non-indigenous people who have kids without really thinking about it. In my life, I see a lot of people having kids that they don't know how to raise without abusing them physically or verbally. Nowadays if you don't know how to have children without causing issues, I think you should wait to have children until you're in an environment where you can trust. It's not that complicated.
Moderator, Treatment Free Beekeepers group on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/treatmentfreebeekeepers/
Slowing the Amazon probably had the effect of making it more able to support a greater population and diversity of smaller life forms
I don't know if the classes of dioxin created by the low-temperature burn conditions of a green, damp pit-burn of organic matter-based middens, which is likely what we're discussing, has anything on those produced by low-temperature combustion of plastics
Examine your lifestyle, multiply it by 7.7 billion other ego-monkeys with similar desires and query whether that global impact is conscionable.
Bryant RedHawk wrote:hau Ella, It is always wonderful to see a person arrive at their "AH Ha" moment, no matter what that moment is focusing on. It is especially gratifying to see someone's eyes sparkle with their focus on rejuvenating our earth mother.
Bryant RedHawk wrote: Any time we look at the indigenous peoples, of any area, we should study their ways of doing things and learn from them, these ways are developed over thousands of years by observation, trials and the errors are thrown out, keeping only what works best for them.
Bryant RedHawk wrote: Too bad that "modern" man only follows the paths of the European style mind set, where artificial production of food is thought to be the best method instead of working with nature this mind set is always fighting nature, that makes it a loosing battle, all the time.
Chris Kott wrote:I think, as mentioned earlier, that technically they would have been practicing elements of what we now call permaculture. I would term theirs, or anything that happened before Mollison coined the term as "proto-permaculture." There wasn't really a baseline, or anything to compare it to.
Meg Mitchell wrote:I don't know much about the South American landscape but I do know that a lot of the North American landscape was intentionally cultivated. There are many reports of it looking like a magical garden, about how it could somehow provide for the needs of people much better than wild landscapes in Europe, etc. The manner of farming/landscaping that native peoples in Canada practiced was different from the manner practiced in Europe but it was still there and it was still very important. The indigenous people were quite intentionally selecting towards the plants that were edible or otherwise useful and away from those that weren't.
I do think we have to keep in mind that the historical mindset towards intentional cultivation would be different to the modern-day one. Most historical people wouldn't have as much understanding towards what would damage or protect our current ecosystem; but to say that people from this era didn't care about biological continuity seems very unfair. They were doing the best they could do under difficult circumstances, and in most cases they actually did pretty well.
I personally think a big part of permaculture and sustainable living is ensuring that you're not producing more children than you can personally care for. As far as I know, the indigenous people in my area had no issue with that, but nowadays there are an awful lot of non-indigenous people who have kids without really thinking about it. In my life, I see a lot of people having kids that they don't know how to raise without abusing them physically or verbally. Nowadays if you don't know how to have children without causing issues, I think you should wait to have children until you're in an environment where you can trust. It's not that complicated.
Ella Irati wrote:I heard the plains were man made, with fires, to produce grassland so the bison could thrive.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:
Ella Irati wrote:I heard the plains were man made, with fires, to produce grassland so the bison could thrive.
The North American Prairie was not man-made, but made by a partnership of grass, fire, bison and humans.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Many soils worldwide contain large amounts of historically produced char and other fire-derived organic matter that could potentially contain dioxins (even today a large proportion of dioxin emissions come from wildfires). Up to 40% of the total soil organic matter (SOM) in grasslands and boreal forests may be fire-derived. Anthropogenic soils such as the Amazonian Terra Preta contain large amounts of pyrolyzed organic matter. Toxic effects from these soils have not been observed.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
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