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Kansas City Area

Posts: 23

Location: Central KS, Zone 6a. Summer High 91.5F (avg), Winter Low 17.5F (avg). 35.7" Annual Rain

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Dan Grubbs Yesterday 2:38:23 PM Subject: Kansas City Area

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"Always a good idea to post that, Ryan. I wonder if someone has something similar for Kansas out there. "

There is, just not nearly as good. I started getting in touch with some permaculture enthusiasts in my area (Manhattan) and the one person who had ordered from a state nursery said she used Missouri's because they seem to know what they are doing more so than KS. None-the-less, there is a Kansas Forest Service (actually their office is about 2 miles from my house), and their spring sale is currently going. Here is the link to their ordering website, and the Forest service site itself:

http://kfs.mybigcommerce.com/
http://www.kansasforests.org/index.shtml

Their plants are definitely cheap, but not as useful for me since I live in town and don't need 25 seedlings of any one thing. Their selection is also much more limited. I do have an order in for the "Songbird bundle" (look under "Special Bundles"). This has 3 red cedar (already have enough of those, so I might give those away or toss them), 3 red buds, 3 saskatoon/serviceberry/juneberry (ameliancher alnifolia, use the name you want), 4 golden currant and 5 fragrant sumac. I'm pretty enthusiastic about the serviceberry plants, they are supposed to be very productive and tasty. The one advantage the KS site has is actually the Serviceberry: the MO site offers a more treelike species, while the KS version is the western, shrub-forming species.

Dan Grubbs

pollinator

Posts: 686

Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Thanks for sharing your insights and experience E Skov.

Was watching Victory Garden today and they had a woman on who demonstrated an herb spiral. It was interesting to hear her explanation of the spiral and she did mention that it was an element in permaculture design. Word is spreading slowly and surly even in mainstream channels. Now, we need to get to broadacre application.

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Annual rainfall: 40 inches / 1016 mm
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Dan Grubbs

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Going through Week 1 of Geoff Lawton's online PDC course right now. I feel a sense of community enhancement already.

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Ryan Harp

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Dan,

Glad to see you got a spot in the class! Can't wait to hear about it. I'm about half way through the PermaEthos online PDC. It's full of content but so far it's fairly simplistic. They promise more engaging material to come using the 100+ acre farm that acts as their demonstration site. Looking forward to that as it evolves.

In other news, I've got a nearly 30 ft long huglekultur project underway. Video of this project is in the works.

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Thanks Ryan. I'll be sure to tell you my impressions as we go through week to week. Love to hear about the PE PDC course, too. Can't wait to see the video of your huglekulture project. Spring isn't that far off so it'll be fun to reconnect outdoors again.

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Ryan Harp

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I was just listening to Paul's latest podcast #316 - More on RMH and got really excited about something Ernie/Erica Wisner said and had to share.

Think about an intentionally planted grove specifically for Coppicing limbs for Rocket Mass Heaters. I've heard about this method before but what I hadn't considered is the Carbon offset from said grove. If your wood burn is efficient enough the grove will be sequestering more carbon than your RMH will be producing. And what's more exciting is the fact that the carbon you're burning from the coppiced wood is "new growth" carbon as opposed to the "old growth" of fossil fuels so no significant impact is virtually guarantee. Now I'm not a real carbon foot print calorie counting kind of a guy, but I do love efficiency in energy. My job is training utility scale Wind Turbine technicians for instance. That said if anyone knows of someone looking to climb 300 ft in the air to maintain turbines for a living let me know.

So who's planning on building themselves a RMH? It unfortunately wouldn't work in my current house but I'd be happy to get messy on an install with any KC permies who would need some help.

Ryan

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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We do have hopes to build a RMH in the basement of the house we build up on our little farm. Not likely that the RMH build will be within the next 12-18 months, however. I put a stop to my plans to cut and clear out a cross fence row that has been allowed to seriously overgrow on our place. Instead, I'm going to let the goats browse through it and then coppice the several species that will resprout that are in the overgrown fence row. But, we'll have to get our house built first and obtain our occupancy permit before any hint of a RMH is installed in it.

Second week of the PDC was better than the first. Taking copious notes.

Dan

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Bill Brackett

Posts: 3

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Hello Everyone!
I'm new to the forum, been learning a lot! My location is about 1.5 hours ESE of Kansas City.

Bill

Bill J Price

Posts: 25

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I am planning 2 RMH in the Earthship build. One in the living room/kitchen and in the harvest room which is out with the garage. I already have some seedlings started that I intend to coppice just for use with the RMH. Should be fun once we get started. Stay tuned.

Dan Grubbs

pollinator

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Welcome Bill B. to the fun. I assume you're not too far from Sedalia. I would like to get a good contact list for Mo/Kan permies together so we can start organizing events in our area. You can send me private message (Purple Moosages) with your contact information and we'll add you to the list.

Bill P. be sure to document your project with photos. I'm sure we'd love to either help build or at least see your progress. Let us know what species you're coppicing.

Is anyone else suffering from cabin fever? Personally, I'm going crazy. The only thing keeping me sane is taking Geoff Lawton's online PDC now. I'm anxious to get my spring activities going.

Dan

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R Scott

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Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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I got a wicked cold to keep me occupied. Way too cold and way too little sleep caught up with me.

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

Ryan Harp

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Welcome Mr. Brackett. How did you stumble upon this crazy permies site?

Mr. Price... Sounds like you've got a great plan, I'm also curious as to what species you have selected for coppicing.

I was speaking to a co-worker today and he mentioned that generally the higher the BTU the slower the growth. Makes sense to me but from how understand it is Coppicing and Pollarding are said to increase growth rates. Doing a little research on this topic I found a great article "Permaculture Reflections" that had a lot of good info and where a balanced approach is recommended. Wait a second... a balanced approach??? Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah... Permaculture!

Here is a quote from that article...

Again, the idea is to have a good mix and variety of fast burning, easy to cut, fast growing soft-woods (these are necessary for starting fires and making kindling anyway) while also having a large number of slow-growing hard woods being coppiced or pollarded in rotation.

Fell better Mr. Scott!

Ryan

ps. I made a video of some Christmas gifts I made for some of my family. Check it out! Couch Cooler

Ryan Harp

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Bill Brackett

Posts: 3

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Thanks Dan and Ryan! Dan, I'm in Cole Camp, will PM you with info. Ryan; I believe the forum first came up during a search for wood gasification related to rocket mass heaters. I'm also getting my garden back into action hopefully with some small animals. Lots of great info here on many topics of interest to me!

Jenny McGee

Posts: 5

Location: Gladstone, Missouri, USA; Zone 5ish

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Do any of you know of any scion wood exchanges in the Kansas City area? I can order online, but I thought I would try locally first.

Ryan Harp

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Not familiar with any scion exchanges, Jenny. Let us know what you find!

Ryan Harp

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Ryan Harp

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Here's the new Hugle project and Garden update.

Ryan Harp

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Dan Grubbs

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Not sure of any kind of scion exchange, but I am going to be taking trimmings off my productive mulberry trees when they leaf out and propagate them to increase their number. If someone was interested in trimmings, I'm happy to share. I'm going to be putting them on the swales and into a temperate version of the banana circle. I love mulberry syrup.

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Bill J Price

Posts: 25

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Hey Dan, I would be interested some for swales on my farm. Would you keep the cuttings potted for a year then plant next spring?

Dan Grubbs

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Hey Bill:

That's likely what I'm going to do. I have mulberry trees of varying ages and sizes and they are all productive. I hope to pot a lot this summer. You'd be welcome to come meet me at my place later in the year and we can trim some together and if you had some pots, we could get them planted and you'd have as much as you want. I'll send you a PM with my phone number so you can reach me whenever you like.

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Jenny McGee

Posts: 5

Location: Gladstone, Missouri, USA; Zone 5ish

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So far, I have found a yahoo group called the North American Scion Exchange. They are easy to join. I haven't tried them yet though.

Since I am more after education than any particular variety right now, I may just try to graft a branch from one of my trees onto the other side of the tree while I'm learning.

Ryan Harp

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Finally made it to Missouri Organic for some soil. One more truck load and ill have it covered!

20150422_194137.jpg

Ryan Harp

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Bill J Price

Posts: 25

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Ryan, That is looking really good. I hear the folks at MO Organic are pretty nice to work with.

Ryan Harp

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Just saw this pop up on facebook yesterday. Anyone else thinking about doing this? I think I will be attending!

Miracle Orchard Workshop – July 25-26, 2015 - Workshop Info

Factor e Farm – Maysville MO, USA

Ryan Harp

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Bill J Price

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Maysville is about 1.5 hours from our part of town Ryan. I have his video. I may consider going.

Dan Grubbs

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Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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Carpool from the KC area???

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Bill J Price

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If we can put together a group we might get a better price.

Marie Gifford

Posts: 25

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Hi all! Sorry I have been MIA. I keep forgetting that this forum doesnt let me know when someone posts to a thread I am following.
I just skimmed over what I hadn't seen yet and will get back on tonight in the home computer instead of my phone.
But I did want to say that I will be going to the Miracle Orchard workshop in July. I would love to get together with some of you and get a group going to get a group discount.

Hope you all had a great winter and an even better spring! Just finishing up lambing here. 24 ewes this year.

Still have 5 more modulars of the Perma Ethos OPDC.

More later! So glad to see the group is still active! Looking forward to some 'farm'
tours!

Marie

R Scott

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Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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That is east of St. Joe, so it is a real haul for Marie or me. Those would be really long days. I am thinking a hotel just for the extra sleep, no way I could commute both days and be awake enough to absorb the information.

Marie Gifford

Posts: 25

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Dan,how are you liking Geoff's OPDC? Glad you got into it!

Ryan, your are so productive! I look forward to see some 'green' pictures of all your projects! How did you like the PermaEthos OPDC? I still have not finished it. I am kind of disappointed in it so far. I was expecting as least up to par with Geoff's OPDC. Hoping for more content in the future.

As far as the Miracle Orchard workshop. I had been planning on driving our truck and setting the tent up in the back of it and staying there. But, if we could get a group going to get the price down, I would so much rather stay in a hotel room, with a decent bed, a/c, and a shower.

I would be willing to take a couple of people in my car.

R Scott, I did not realize we lived so close!! I live just south of Tanglewood Lake. We need to get together.

I would love to visit all of your places and I would be more than happy to have people out to our place. We can 'make a day' of it at my place if you all want. We have a pond that has lots of fish, a gun range, and of course all my 'someday' projects. I would love some input about a couple areas.

I just transitioned the ewes and lambs onto pasture. So the daily moves start.

Dan Grubbs

pollinator

Posts: 686

Location: northwest Missouri, USA

103

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Marie,

So good to hear from you again. Yes, I'm finding the online PDC from Geoff informative and enhances the manual well. I'm a bit stupefied by some of the questions people ask, but the video content is great. I've come away with several ideas I'm already implementing on our farm and have plans to do more in the coming two years ... Hebron Acres is a constantly evolving place! I don't think I'll ever be done tinkering.

Glad you're reaching out to R Scott. I thought sure you two knew each other being so close. Be sure to share whatever you learn from him and what he's doing. I find him a valuable resource.

Good luck with moving the animals out to pasture and the daily grazing. You should have healthier animals and healthier soil as a result.

Let's all keep connected about the Maysville event.

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Annual rainfall: 40 inches / 1016 mm
Kansas City area discussion going on here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1707573296152799/

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4140

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

327

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Wow, didn't know you were that close! We do have to get together. I thought I would have more time after losing the day job, but time just flies!

Marie Gifford

Posts: 25

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I am planning to go to the Workshop. Not sure if they will have a limit of participants. There was no mention of it.

Just planted some strawberries and some Pineberries. Anyone ever have Pineberries? White strawberries that taste like pineapples. Sounds delicious!

Dan Grubbs

pollinator

Posts: 686

Location: northwest Missouri, USA

103

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Okay, gang. I need to know what Saturday you want to create a gathering and have the NRCS soils guy I have on the hook speak to us. He has promised to come out and speak to our group so we need to define the day. His name is Doug Peterson, state soil health conservationist. I subscribe to his emails where he sends out great info about soil health. He is not just a scientist, but also a working farmer with livestock. I will host this on my place just off I-35 north of Kearney. If I get a good count of who wants to come, I'll provide free refreshments. I really want to start getting us together for good purposes and I think this might be a good start and we can learn together from Doug Peterson.

I've attached an example of one of his emails. I always learn something from the resources he connects subscribers to. I hope it helps you see how helpful Doug can be. Please post a suggested Saturday date in June.

Best to all,
Dan

Filename: Peterson-Email.pdf

File size: 22 Kbytes

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Marie Gifford

Posts: 25

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I don't have anything on my calendar yet for June. The only thing that would come up is the Amazing Grazing III workshops. They haven't posted all the workshops yet. Here is a link to their workshops. http://www.kansasfarmersunion.com/amazing-grazing/
This year the is a focus on soils. They have some awesome speakers lined up.
The first workshop is Agroforest Practices. May 20th and 21st in Topeka.

That being said, I say June 6th (but will be pretty flexible)

Bill J Price

Posts: 25

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June works for me except June 27 and 28. I will be doing solar cooking demos at the Quindaro Gardens, 3027 N 11th Street, Kansas City, Kansas, during the Cultivate Kansas City Urban Grown Tour.

Ryan Harp

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Wow spring has very much sprung around here!

Miracle Orchard Workshop
From what I can tell there is a lot of interest in the group to attend the Miracle Orchard Workshop. I'd be happy to register the group. Looks like $450 and from what I can tell 5 of us tentatively have an interest which would be $90 each. If I hear back from at least 2 of you by Sat. (5/16/15) I'll pull the trigger and put down the registration cost. I can wait until the event to be paid back that's fine.
I'm going to try and camp if we can, otherwise I'll just head back home in between days.

NRCS soils guy
I'm free any weekend in June, Dan... looking forward to it!

Perma Ethos PDC
Marie, I can see where the PE PDC was a bit underwhelming. I'm only about 70% through it but for the most part it has meet my expectations. I was hoping for more engaging updates on the Elisa Springs farm itself. They have done so much but have really dropped the ball on the updates. They have a good team so I just hope they get back to releasing more content. I chalk it up to trying to do too much at once, which I myself am quite accomplished at!

Ryan Harp

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Marie Gifford

Posts: 25

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Count me in on the Miracle Orchard workshop.

Thanks for being the coordinator Ryan! I would be more than happy to send you money before the workshop.

Marie Gifford

Posts: 25

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June 6th won't work for me. Just found out I have a wedding to go to. Would much rather listen to a soil guy.

Dan Grubbs

pollinator

Posts: 686

Location: northwest Missouri, USA

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NRCS soils guy tells me now his June is booked. Quick, what weekend in July do we want to come up to my place to listen to him lecture?

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Marie Gifford

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Weekend of the 11th works for me.

I got this tall by not having enough crisco in my diet as a kid. This ad looks like it had plenty of shortening:

PIE - The Easy Way to Support Permies.com

https://permies.com/t/240094/PIE-Easy-Support-Permies