• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Timothy Norton
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Tereza Okava
  • Andrés Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • M Ljin
  • Matt McSpadden

How exactly can you calculate the distance between you and a thunder storm? Here's the Math!

 
Posts: 3
2
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
*This post is mostly me having fun practicing unit conversions for my Chem 1 class. I figured it may have some relevance to wilderness survival. I honestly used to think that each second between lightening and thunder represented 1 mile (1.6 km). This could have easily led to dangerously miscalculations--5 miles (assumed) vs 1 mile (actual distance).* Feel free to correct any mistakes or provide alternatives!

Final Results
1 mile = 5 seconds
1 kilometer = 3 seconds
0.2 miles = 1 second
0.3 kilometers = 1 second

The speed of light is 0.000621 miles/second. That means lightening is visible to distance of 1,610 miles after just one second. I think it is safe to assume that the speed of light has a negligible effect on the final calculation. We will assume that the time from the actual strike to the time it is visible to you is 0.

1 second ÷ 0.000621 miles/second = 1,610 miles

(www.weather.gov)'s speed of sound calculator says that at 40 degrees F, sound travels at 746.95 miles/hour. For miles/minute divide by 60. And for miles/second divide that by 60 again. This tells us a storm is 0.207 miles away for every 1 second of time between lighting and the sound of thunder. This means that for every 4.83 seconds counted, 1 mile of distance lies between you and the source of the strike.

746.95 miles/hour ÷ 60 minute/hour ÷ 60 seconds/minute = 0.207 miles/second

1 mile ÷ 0.207 miles/second = 4.83 second

Sources:
Speed of Light
Speed of Sound
 
steward
Posts: 15851
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
5021
8
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So what is it for 70 degrees?  

Does humidity affect it much?
 
steward & bricolagier
Posts: 15508
Location: SW Missouri
11261
2
goat cat fungi books chicken earthworks food preservation cooking building homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So, for us non-mathy folks, you see the light, then count the seconds and divide by 5 to get miles? Am I reading it all correctly?
 
Christopher LaRosee
Posts: 3
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Haasl wrote:So what is it for 70 degrees?  

Does humidity affect it much?



At 70 degrees its 4.7 seconds per mile, so not a huge difference.
Also high humidity will lead to faster a speed of sound, however the difference is also very small.
 
Christopher LaRosee
Posts: 3
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Pearl Sutton wrote:So, for us non-mathy folks, you see the light, then count the seconds and divide by 5 to get miles? Am I reading it all correctly?



You are indeed. What I have outlined is more an attempt to explain why this rule is generally the case. But I suppose you could use the more precise values and a compass and map to pinpoint exactly where a storm is.
 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 15851
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
5021
8
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Christopher!
 
pollinator
Posts: 439
175
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The conclusions are good, but the values and units used in the lightning calculations look a bit odd. From bitter experience, units that don't properly cancel are a major source of lost points on chemistry exams.

The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.

A calculation of (seconds / (miles per second)) gives units of seconds^2 per mile, or "inverse acceleration".
 
gardener
Posts: 3347
Location: Cascades of Oregon
855
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've always wondered about mountainous terrain and the distance calculation. I currently rely on the turtle method and watch who ever I am with. A slight duck 5 miles, ears to the collar 2.5 mile ears below the collar 1 mile or closer.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://stoves2.com
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic