Dolly Delightful wrote:
I agree with the above posters about the losing weight = healthy thing. It's quite annoying really. I had a friend who really had these two values (health and skinnyness) mixed up. Whenever she was buying something she'd say 'it's good for you' and what she really meant was 'it says "low-fat" on it'. Now days she's as thin as a stick and really unwell. No comment.
paul wheaton wrote:I wonder .... vegans need to eat coconut oil ... something to do with a particular kind of fat found in most meats ... something to do with the nervous system .... what would happen if vegans didn't know about this nutritional requirement?
marina phillips wrote:
Jessica, if the food animal in question builds its body entirely from a perennial polyculture of grass, how then would a grain intensive vegetarian diet stack up to it?
Jessica Wiley wrote:it takes less land to grow a garden for a vegan than to grow a garden for an omnivore (an I'm not sure how much different in size the two gardens would be) as well as pasture an animal/animals responsibly.
Joel Hollingsworth wrote:
I think if land were the limiting factor, a village that kept a few laying hens (fed garden waste, insects, and kitchen scraps), plus a small number of milk goats (fed garden waste chickens don't want), might be able to support more people than a vegan village. Two important points in their favor are a faster cycling of nutrients, and transformation of calories that would otherwise be inaccessible to humans (tree bark->milk; goat manure->fly larvae->eggs).
There are probably also some more-subtle benefits. Bacteria in a goat's rumen can make B vitamins without consuming starch that might otherwise support a human, for example. Depending how the system is set up, gardeners might also need fewer calories with animals helping.
I imagine the maximum carrying capacity would mean far fewer animal-derived calories than most omnivores would want, though.
Jessica Wiley wrote:
all the things that goats can eat that we can't are already being eaten by other animals.
But nearly all of the vegan food in any market is grown in rows of monoculture in plowed fields.
How do you know your palm oil shortening isn't coming from clear-cut former orangutan habitat? How do you know your eggs aren't coming from chickens being kept under lights all night to artificially boost production? How do you know your grass-fed cows aren't coming from land that should be forest? It makes more sense to me to use my energy to put more pressure on industrial agriculture in all sectors, and I think that's something ethical eaters from all factions of the meat debate can agree on.
Could you clarify, Paul? Given that most vegan food is fruit, vegetables, and legumes--I know it's not as easy as picking up bagged salad, but I would think you can find polyculture raised fruits, vegetables, and legumes in many organic markets as well. I can get it in my grocery store.
paul wheaton wrote:
You are able to get polyculture food at your grocery store? This is the first I have ever heard of any grocery store carrying any polyculture food other than grass fed beef.
Tell me how it is labeled.
paul wheaton wrote:
Pasture is usually grasses and dozens (hundreds) of species of other plants. Sometimes called "weeds".
Intercropping doesn't go quite far enough. And crop rotation is definitely not polyculture.
(those Polyface farm youtube videos are quite long so I didn't watch them yet, maybe it says this information in there?)
It's also true that omnivore's eat vegetables, fruit and grains, just like vegans, and it takes less land to grow a garden for a vegan than to grow a garden for an omnivore (an I'm not sure how much different in size the two gardens would be) as well as pasture an animal/animals responsibly.