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Using IBC tote liner without cage?

 
pollinator
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I have a source for a food-grade liner for an IBC tank. It's cheap/free. Neighbour is using the cage for firewood.

I could fill it half-full of rainwater, maybe, on its own. Or build a cage with posts and wood.

Anybody done this?
 
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ive got one of those cubes, have not had to use it yet. but what you are wanting to do sounds totally doable, box it in with wood structure would support the sides from bowing out.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Or industrial size compost bins? Instant greenhouse / wood bin / mini-shed?

 
pollinator
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I have one where the cage might as well be off... It's missing 1/3 of the horizontal bars and all but one of the vertical ones are bent, broken or not in contact with the tank. I have filled it up and it seems to be fine. Someone told me that the cage is just for transportation. If that's actually true, I don't know.

The instant greenhouse idea has me thinking...
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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I scored 4 of them! Woohoo!

All from transporting juice to a craft cider maker, so they're safe for garden water.

I'll keep two for water, and the other two will become composters that I can move/stir with my little tractor.

And my neighbour, who is glad to get rid of them, will get a few nice beers.
 
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A friend gave me one without the cage.   I filled it 2/3 full of rainwater and put fish in it and it promptly bulged out and cracked horizontally mid way.  So I built a wooden frame around it for support and put a plastic liner inside and still use it but it was damaged quite a lot.  Guess they need that cage for support if holding liquid.  

 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Yes, I brought one over and it will definitely need a reinforcing structure to keep from bulging out.

It's a lot lighter weight plastic than the old one I have, which is inside a cage.

Regardless, I'm happy I diverted them from the landfill.
 
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If I had one I'd dig a hole and mostly bury it, then use it as a mini pond.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Yeah, I had the same thought. But to me they're way more valuable as mega compost bins and storage tanks that I can move around. I also don't think I could sell an industrial square pond to the keeper of aesthetic standards, who is also my better half.
 
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Douglas, did you end up building a frame for your IBC liner? If so can you share a picture? I’m in exactly the same situation and would like to see the solution you came up with.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Not really -- I'm still scrounging for a free cage for the food grade liner. It's out there! I have seen them but haven't been fast enough (so far).

I did have a half liner that was still waterproof and used it to capture water last year. The corners are strong but the sides bow out. So I pounded rebar pieces into the ground and used some discarded fencing to reinforce them. Crude but effective -- an extra 500 litres of stored water. Worked fine.
 
Jackie Frobese
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Well I just grabbed some pieces of pallet wood and putting them together. This is what I came up with… I may be adding some more support at the top to tie the pieces together more.
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Jackie Frobese
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Ok final edition. Now we just have to wait for enough rain to fill it to see if it holds. Luckily there’s plenty of rain in my forecast.
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Douglas Alpenstock
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I like it!

I think boards on the inside of the supports are more likely to hold. I'd be tempted to put a good ratchet strap around the whole thing, halfway up. That's a lot of weight.

I'm making popcorn and watching the show!
 
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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I like it!

I think boards on the inside of the supports are more likely to hold. I'd be tempted to put a good ratchet strap around the whole thing, halfway up. That's a lot of weight.

I'm making popcorn and watching the show!


Agreed, looks like 3 of the four sides are good, but that one side is a potential weak-link,, I'd put those boards on the insideas well, the weight will reinforce the strength of the box.
 
Jackie Frobese
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The cross members on the front side are thicker, wider, and I used longer screws. Interestingly I did not intentionally put those ones on the "outside" of the corner posts. That's just how the whole assembly fit with the pallet below.

I do see what you all mean about the fact that they are outside, being a potential weak point. Since I can't easily move them inside, I think I'll add  vertical straps of wood over the ends, and screw them into the corner posts to reinforce the whole side.

Ill be picking up a flexible downspout today so I can begin collecting water.

As I was building this I had the top lid off with a piece of screen over the opening. I kept smelling what reminded me of dawn dish soap. I think there may be some soap residue inside the tank. I recall my neighbor (who purchased the tank, and is only using the cage for firewood) saying something about the tank being rinsed out and cleaned by the seller. Although this soap residue isn't optimal, given the mild nature of the scent I'm not thinking it'll be a real problem. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about that.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Poly is fairly porous, and stuff can linger. Personally, I wouldn't worry about a mild scent, but I think I would give it a good blasting out with a garden hose just for luck.
 
Jackie Frobese
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It’s raining… you can see my tote is about half full now. The bottom is definitely bulging on all sides. The lowest support on the front where the spigot is has started bowing. So far it’s all holding. I make a major miscalculation by failing to screw the center post on the house side into the pallet. You can see in the last picture it has pulled several inches away from the pallet. I failed to place the crew because of inaccessibility. I do t have a tractor to be able to move the whole setup myself so I built it in place😫☺️. Let’s just hope and pray it won’t be a fatal error.
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Where center post is pulling away from bottom pallet.
Where center post is pulling away from bottom pallet.
 
Jackie Frobese
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Once the tote reached 2/3 full (about 200 gallons) the whole thing looked ready to fail. Several screws were pulled out, the plastic at the bottom was bulging. I decided to empty it so I could reinforce more. I’ll post pictures once the reinforcing is complete.
 
Jackie Frobese
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Here it is full and holding. I’d say this framework is the minimum one could get away with. If you are thinking of duplicating I recommend adding more support. Larger pieces of wood and more of them.
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Here you can see how the center beams are bowing with the weight
Here you can see how the center beams are bowing with the weight
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Notice how the plastic is bulging between the cross beams
Notice how the plastic is bulging between the cross beams
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Jackie Frobese wrote:Here it is full and holding. I’d say this framework is the minimum one could get away with. If you are thinking of duplicating I recommend adding more support. Larger pieces of wood and more of them.


Nicely done! Thanks for sharing this.
 
Jackie Frobese
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It was a fail in the end…

About 6 weeks after the tote was filled the screws began pulling free and/or snapping off.

The severity of the fail is not well seen with a quick glimpse at these pictures, but if you take your time to look closely, there are at least a dozen crews that have given out, the boards are pulling away completely at spots, and the tote itself is collapsing at the bottom.

If any one succeeds at building a cage I’d love to see it. I did not succeed.
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Rocket Scientist
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Too bad this one didn't work long-term. At least now you know some good structural principles. The pallet probably wouldn't have held up long-term either, so its size need not be a constraint. A base that extends out from the tote sides so that braces can be bolted to it to contain verticals could help. Another possibility would be 2x4s flat running horizontally around the bottom part, overlapping at the corners so they can be bolted together, or nailed with several stout nails at each lap. As you have seen the lower part has much more stress than the top. You can space the boards wider as you go up the sides, and use 2x4s with their flats touching the tote for better plastic support. If you can get cheap/recycled metal strapping you can use it to reinforce the corner joints.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Jackie Frobese wrote:It was a fail in the end…

About 6 weeks after the tote was filled the screws began pulling free and/or snapping off.


Not a fail IMO! Your experiment showed us how to build a better cage. Thanks!

I hope your tote was not permanently damaged.

For cage v.2.0, I would suggest that screws may come and screws may go, but bolts are forever. Bolts and straps.
 
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The only true failure would have been if nothing was learned from the experience. I salute all the attempts that don't go to plan...especially when they start with "not sure this will work, but..."
 
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How much does a liner weigh?
 
Jackie Frobese
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Amy Gsrv Mn wrote:How much does a liner weigh?



I assume you mean to ask how much the water inside weighs when the tote is full? The tote carries about 275 gallons, so that's about 2290 pounds.

The plastic tote itself is relatively light, I can pick it up myself (very awkward to lift because of size) it can't be more than 10 pounds.

The tote was not destroyed I managed to catch the problem in time and empty it.

I put it free on the side of the road after this, as I was given 3 new totes with the cages (I love free things)!! and BONUS I got to meet a super cool neighbor when she stopped to take the old tote from the side of the road... just bought some freshly skinned/cleaned rabbits from her last week.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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My empty liners are heavier, maybe 25 lbs.

Full, it's a cubic metre = 1000 kg x 2.2 = 2200 lbs. roughly.
 
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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Full, it's a cubic metre = 1000 kg x 2.2 = 2200 lbs. roughly.


Water is darn heavy. One really needs to over-engineer when supporting or containing large quantities of it.

Jackie's attempt is such a good lesson even though the attempt didn't work out.
 
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