How to Start on a Food Forest?

I’m super excited about our upcoming closing on 4.5 acres next week! Despite there being no buildings but a small shed on the land, I’d love to get started with the foundations for a food forest ASAP.

How should one get started? I live in a hot climate (100F is typical in July-August) zone 8b. I’m only 20 minutes away but it would be difficult to make it to the land daily to work with a toddler in tow. Land is a steady slope no greater than 30 degree rise at any given point. North facing, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately since summers here are so hot...?)

My current game plan is to take some local nitrogen fixing tree seeds and spread them out, hoping something sticks despite my inability to nurture the seeds. But, I don’t even know where on the land is best to start. I obviously won’t develop the whole 4.5 acres into food forest all at once.

Do I start at the top/bottom of the hill? Near the build site? On the property line? In the middle of the pre-existing Ashe Juniper? Should I start with growing grasses and different nitrogen fixers instead of trees?

Thank you in advance :)
I’m debating starting a YouTube channel to monitor my progress and post a video of the land so I can get better guidance as well.

For anyone in the Texas Hill Country, what nitrogen fixers do you use? I have some mountain laurel seeds I think is best to start with because from what I read they take in well draining soul.

I debated using mesquite but I don’t see them growing on slopes, maybe I’ll try some anyway. I have a few seeds since the current home has a mesquite in the backyard.

Aside from your growing zone, what country & region are you? That could really help make sense of exactly what kinds of plants you should be focusing on.

That being said, Native Oak trees may be a good start, but maybe not if you live in a Bayou, or the Plains, or something.

If it's plains, probably start with grasses & bushes. You can mix in some wildflowers with the grass too, if you want. Just leave the existing trees alone until you start to get a handle on how this is going, unless there's something invasive.

D Tucholske wrote:Aside from your growing zone, what country & region are you? That could really help make sense of exactly what kinds of plants you should be focusing on.

That being said, Native Oak trees may be a good start.

You must have missed my last commentary asking Permies in the Texas Hill Country for guidance. (That’s where I’m at)

The land already has some native oaks, this area is known for their live oaks but I noticed the property does have at least one other type of oak on it, maybe two others?

It’s already tree heavy with mostly Ashe Juniper, some oaks, and some Texas Madrones so I’m more looking at how to build the soil and/or start on fruit trees.
Now unless oaks build the soil in a way I was unaware... then perhaps I do need to plant more. Please share

Congratulations on your new land, that's exciting!

Rebecca Blake wrote:My current game plan is to take some local nitrogen fixing tree seeds and spread them out, hoping something sticks despite my inability to nurture the seeds. But, I don’t even know where on the land is best to start. I obviously won’t develop the whole 4.5 acres into food forest all at once.

If some areas of the property have more fertile soil than others, those can be great areas to start growing some veggies and even some perennials, while building more fertile soil in the less fertile areas.

Do I start at the top/bottom of the hill? Near the build site? On the property line? In the middle of the pre-existing Ashe Juniper?

If you're going to be doing some earthworks and water catchment, which can be really beneficial especially in dry climates, they are a great thing to do at the very beginning, and I've found it much easier to start at the lower sections of the property and work up.

Thank you in advance
I’m debating starting a YouTube channel to monitor my progress and post a video of the land so I can get better guidance as well.

Sounds neat!

Steve Thorn wrote: If some areas of the property have more fertile soil than others, those can be great areas to start growing some veggies and even some perennials, while building more fertile soil in the less fertile areas.

I hadn’t actually thought of that... I guess I was blindsided by the fact that I won’t be there all the time! But now probably is a great time to get some perennials going while I maintain annuals at home.

Steve Thorn wrote:
If you're going to be doing some earthworks and water catchment, which can be really beneficial especially in dry climates, they are a great thing to do at the very beginning, and I've found it much easier to start at the lower sections of the property and work up.

Thank you for your insight of which part of the slope to begin on. I find it interesting because I do remember reading in Sepp Holzer’s book that he recommends starting at the top!

I’m not sure which idea I like best for this particular piece of land since runoff is a bit of an issue. I feel like the top of the hill has a great argument for starting water retention and fertile soil up there so that it will gradually leech down naturally... but then the bottom of the hill sounds like a great start because it’s the road side and I could start putting buffers in to prevent fertility from leaving my land.

Typing that out and I think I’m agreeing with you, bottoms-up

Interestingly enough, an hour or two after creating this thread my husband was saying he would like to get some olive trees planted ASAP since they take 3-5 years to start producing. Looks like we’ll be starting there!
Per your recommendation, I think I’ll double down on my earthworks research so I can give my olive trees a proper home to abide in. Luckily, they should grow pretty easy out here.

First step: check if deer like to eat them!

Thanks for your help

It's good then that there already are some oaks. They tend to be common because they're a cornerstone plant species. A lot of other trees & forest plants prefer their company- sometimes exclusively. And, yeah, I did miss  the Texas Hill Country thing the first time.

That being said, I'm not as familiar with precisely what kinds of plants to look for. I'm more familiar with the Great Lakes Region. But, it depends if you want a wooded grove or grassland, a mix, what have you.

I'd start researching native grasses for Texas & narrow the search there. A couple native bushes can also go a long way in holding the soil together & providing food & habitat, I guess.

This sounds exciting. I think the YouTube idea is worth the effort.
best wishes,
Glen B Ontario, CAN

I have had decent success with black locust, cowpeas are great during the summer. A few years ago I used a green manure mix over the winter and it did great but was pricey. I’ve been very hesitant to put any mesquite in as it gets out of hand fairly easy.

One thing that really helped me is using the view from above. Do a search for your county GIS and see if you have a GIS website. Google Earth Pro downloaded on a PC works too. Pro is free and has a cool timeline feature that lets you look at past satellite imagery, which helps you see through the seasons (like what is shady in what part of the year) and how things are developing over time.

Use either of these programs to measure distance on the land, to print and draw on, etc. Beats the heck out of manual measuring and converting to graph paper on large areas!  I have gone digital in designing my own food forest and measuring for spacing and fencing. Usually there's even the option to view topography. I started with a simple areal to draw notes on. Now I have several, such as one that marks utilities, one for fencing notes, even flower plantings.    

Exciting news! I hope you don't mind me watching this thread for answers, too--I'm also in Texas Hill Country (Harper), with just over 4 acres recently purchased that I'm hoping to get a food forest started on as time and funding allow.  

Olive trees sound like a fantastic idea, and I've also considered a pomegranate or two.  I've been worried how to gradually swap out some of our oak and scrub oak for fruit/nut trees and berry bushes without losing excessive tree cover, but finding cover crops/nitrogen fixers that grow well in this climate has been one of my challenges, as well.  In a community garden space, I had decent luck with cowpeas growing even when no one had time to check on them, water them, or baby them along.  In the same community garden project, I'd started a hugelbed to put some dead wood and brush to use, which was starting off strong with mustard and crimson clover and some other sprouts coming up all over it until some neighborhood kids used it for a 'king of the hill' game and tore the whole thing apart, setting it all back a year...  

The first place to start is in your mind, heart, your experience, your goals and certainly your eyes and senses!
Observe the land, take notes, express your vision- simplify your vision (very important), make a plan- research specific strategies for your plan....then start moving earth and planting :)

Best Zach



For more go to
www.ecosystemsolutioninstitute.com and www.EcosystemU.com

Rodd Ramon wrote:I have had decent success with black locust, cowpeas are great during the summer. A few years ago I used a green manure mix over the winter and it did great but was pricey. I’ve been very hesitant to put any mesquite in as it gets out of hand fairly easy.

I've heard other pemies mention black locust but I didn't even have the mind to check if they grow in this area, so thank you for sharing! I'll definitely look into them more.

Matt Todd wrote:One thing that really helped me is using the view from above. Do a search for your county GIS and see if you have a GIS website. Google Earth Pro downloaded on a PC works too. Pro is free and has a cool timeline feature that lets you look at past satellite imagery, which helps you see through the seasons (like what is shady in what part of the year) and how things are developing over time.

Wow, that's very good to know about Google Earth Pro! I have already used the web version of Google Earth for some things, but now I'll definitely be downloading pro :) Thank you!

Kallista Rochelle wrote:Exciting news! I hope you don't mind me watching this thread for answers, too--I'm also in Texas Hill Country (Harper), with just over 4 acres recently purchased that I'm hoping to get a food forest started on as time and funding allow.  

Olive trees sound like a fantastic idea, and I've also considered a pomegranate or two.  I've been worried how to gradually swap out some of our oak and scrub oak for fruit/nut trees and berry bushes without losing excessive tree cover, but finding cover crops/nitrogen fixers that grow well in this climate has been one of my challenges, as well.  In a community garden space, I had decent luck with cowpeas growing even when no one had time to check on them, water them, or baby them along.  In the same community garden project, I'd started a hugelbed to put some dead wood and brush to use, which was starting off strong with mustard and crimson clover and some other sprouts coming up all over it until some neighborhood kids used it for a 'king of the hill' game and tore the whole thing apart, setting it all back a year...  

Oh no, sorry to hear about your hugel bed. What wood did you put in it? The only trees worth cutting down on our property are Ashe Juniper and I hear they're no good for hugel beds because the wood takes forever to break down... but hey, I have lots of fence material at the least.

I'm worried about picking which trees to scrap to put fruit trees in place of as well. What I really would like to do is visit the Bamberger ranch in Johnson city for one of their land owner management courses. Of course, their operations have been shut down by the virus so who knows when I'll be able to do that.

But hopefully you and I can learn enough to gain some confidence through this thread :)

How exciting! I plan on using non-native Goumi berries for some of my nitrogen fixers because I absolutely love the taste of them! It sounds like you have a good list of natives. https://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=738#:~:text=There%20are%20many%2C%20including%20some,bluebonnets%20(Lupinus%20spp.). Redbuds are cool because the blooms are edible. Mountain Laurels are beautiful, but very slow growing and can be tough to get started. There is at least one central Texas supplier of potted started mtn. laurels you can buy in bulk.  

"Texas Bird of Paradise" Caesalpinia gilliesii, and "Pride of Barbados" are two naturalized plants that also serve that purpose.

Zoe, welcome to the forum!

I love redbuds and mountain laurels.

An easy to grow and cost effective nitrogen fixer I've had good luck with in east Texas is purslane or crimson clover. I found an already existing food forest on my property abundant in turkey tail and decided to add elderberry bushes to enhance the natural environment. Maybe if you sit outside in the rain and watch the water flow and sun map you could determine the which of the areas will support the types of food you want included in your forest.