• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Mike Haasl
  • Burra Maluca
master gardeners:
  • Greg Martin
  • jordan barton
  • Carla Burke
  • Leigh Tate
gardeners:
  • Jay Angler
  • John F Dean
  • Steve Thorn

3.2v 500ah lifepo4 batteries

 
Posts: 36
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm seeing these batteries on Amazon, etc.  It seems like they come from China.



It seems like, if you're really thrifty, you can get 16 for under 2000 USD.  If my math servers, that's 25.6 kwh of storage not a lot of money, relatively speaking.  Has battery storage really gotten this much cheaper in the last 24 months?

So far I haven't found any testimonials, so I figured I'd ask if anyone's heard anything about them.

I'm looking for a battery bank to pair with a Sol Ark 12K.

 
pollinator
Posts: 2967
Location: Kent, UK - Zone 8
398
books composting toilet bee rocket stoves wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I know absolutely nothing about this specific product and offering, however I have been looking in to 18650 cells for ebike batteries. The groups I am a member of have been discussing a lot of fake batteries being offered for sale from China; ones that claim Ah ratings that are far beyond what is possible with current battery technology, and at prices that are unrealistically low.

I'm not saying that this is the case here, but definitely do your homework before buying.
 
Brian Church
Posts: 36
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Michael Cox wrote:I know absolutely nothing about this specific product and offering, however I have been looking in to 18650 cells for ebike batteries. The groups I am a member of have been discussing a lot of fake batteries being offered for sale from China...



Michael,
It seems like prices of less than $100 / kw are not unheard of these days, but on this scale I'd expect to pay a bit more.

(Having said that, most if the places with the best prices are out if stock right now, so they may in fact be a bit more.)

By comparison, how much are you paying per kwh with 18650s these days?
 
Michael Cox
pollinator
Posts: 2967
Location: Kent, UK - Zone 8
398
books composting toilet bee rocket stoves wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Not sure how it works out but you can expect to pay between £2.50 and £4.00 for a name brand cell of good quality.

The issue we were see was they were advertising products that were twice or more energy dense than any known lithium battery technology. That product simply cannot exist, so the price isn't really relevant.
 
Brian Church
Posts: 36
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If they are 3.7v and 2.5ah for 4 Euros, that's actually quite a bit more than I'd expect; over 400 Euros per kwh.  You can get an LG power wall, which includes a charge controller, etc, for less.

While I'm seeing that 2.5ah is common for 18650s, I'm guessing you're quoting higher capacity cells.

 
Posts: 600
Location: Abkhazia · Cfa (humid subtropical) - temperate · clay soil
74
cat forest garden trees solar wood heat woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't think you will get new cells that passed quality control.
So either they are old ones (that does not mean they don't work) or something was off (which also does not mean they don't work).

I would inquire about the origin and get a written response that verifies the number of cells and their capacity and that you can return them (at their cost?) if the capacity is not reached.

The price is about 25% of what I would expect.
 
pollinator
Posts: 584
126
tiny house food preservation cooking rocket stoves homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Believe nothing from China until it is tested.

They often sell grade B cells and do not match the advertised amp hours.

If a pack was built with these  4s,   4p  with 16 cells

12.8 V         2000 amp hour

12.8 * 2000   / 1000 =

25.6  KWH

But that is very very hard for me to believe,   I would look on youtube,  and check reviews to make sure the info is correct.
 
pollinator
Posts: 3748
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
161
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
YouTubers say you can get lithium cheaper than lead acid these days, but they are hit and miss.  If you want to go that route, I would watch the YouTube reviews and follow their links to specific products.  

 
Michael Cox
pollinator
Posts: 2967
Location: Kent, UK - Zone 8
398
books composting toilet bee rocket stoves wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Brian Church wrote:If they are 3.7v and 2.5ah for 4 Euros, that's actually quite a bit more than I'd expect; over 400 Euros per kwh.  You can get an LG power wall, which includes a charge controller, etc, for less.

While I'm seeing that 2.5ah is common for 18650s, I'm guessing you're quoting higher capacity cells.



The batteries for ebikes are high spec - High Ah, high max current draw, very low internal resistance. Weight is at a premium on a bike and converts directly to useable range.
 
Brian Church
Posts: 36
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

R Scott wrote:YouTubers say you can get lithium cheaper than lead acid these days, but they are hit and miss.  If you want to go that route, I would watch the YouTube reviews and follow their links to specific products.  anything.


Speaking of:

One youtuber who seems to know his stuff reviewed some 3.2v 100ah lifepo4 sinopoly batteries, and found then to be quite good, despite being the cheapest on alibaba.com.

It was from the link in the description that I found the 500 ah batteries from the same seller.  Then I saw the batteries popping up everywhere.

Obviously, I can't extrapolate the youtuber's results to other batteries, so the purpose of the thread is to see if anyone had heard anything.

 
And then the entire population worshiped me like unto a god. Well, me and this tiny ad:
Solar Dehydrator Plans - Combo Package download
https://permies.com/t/solar-dehydrator
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic