A Cat's Place on the Permaculture Homestead

I was recently told by someone that cats have no place in a Permaculture design (particularly in Australia with the native wildlife), and I'm interested to know what others think!

My response was that we have a massive Maine Coon cat, who makes us happy. His access to the outside world is via a sprawling cat run that makes use of an over shady part of our yard, and has a dog kennel built into it as well. His litter area is outside in the cat run, and uses coconut coir as the material, which can be removed and all composted down in an area far away from our growing. We had issues with mice in the shed, but hubby extended the cat run so Townsen could get in there, and overnight no mouse problem.

Their response was that a "proper" Permaculture homestead should have no pest problem...and thus no reason for cats.

What say you?

A cat runs my homestead.

Hi Sage,

What a great looking cat! I love Maine Coons. I think cats can certainly have a place in the scheme of things... usually in upper management as John pointed out. haha. But yeah, I was going to second your point on pest control.... we used to have a barn cat years ago to help with mice. I've actually seen some crazy stuff from Australia and how crazy mice can get out there. I suppose when it comes to permaculture there are those who are more orthodox than others. I wouldn't worry about it, he looks super friendly ---give him a scritch for me! lol

Take care!
Curt

Sage Chara wrote:... told by someone that cats have no place in a Permaculture design...

Their response was that a "proper" Permaculture homestead should have no pest problem...and thus no reason for cats.

What say you?

I imagine this person means well, but it's clear to me this is their opinion. I believe if we asked ten different people what "proper" permaculture means we'd get ten different answers. One thing I've learned is there is no one size fits all prescription for permaculture. Each of us who choose to adopt permaculture principles to apply where we choose to live do so in an adaptive and dynamic way that takes into consideration aspects that may not be mentioned in any permaculture rule book, such as our furry companions.

Each growing season I have what some may consider a "problem" but I roll with it. Nature is just telling me something is out of balance. For me personally, I do my best to not put permaculture into a rigid box that must be this or that way but do my best to flow with the challenges presented and I have found that when things get out of balance, often Nature provides the solution. By the way, I too have cats and they not only do an excellent job playing their part of Nature keeping mice in check on my farm, they bring me joy and happiness.

People have strong opinions regarding cats, one way or another.  

I tend to fall into James' camp- it's up to the individual to make the choice, knowing any choice will be made in the absence of complete information.  We should leave the door open to new information, be flexible in our beliefs, even examine and challenge our own assumptions from time to time.  

Personally, I don't keep cats.  There's a couple strays prowling the neighborhood, in addition to hawks, owls, and a fairly healthy population of vermin-eating snakes.  I just like the other rodent predators more.  

I like cats and have loved cats though I don't have a cat.  We have a dog.

Bill Mollison states in a few of his permaculture books that there is no place in the permaculture system for cats(please correct me if you think i am wrong). so does anyone disagree with him on this?

https://permies.com/t/12591/Mollison-anti-cat-discussion

It sounds to me like you found a great way to integrate a cat into your system.  I think what you are doing is great.  I read a lot, absorb what is useful for me, and never blindly follow what "they" say.  I'm with you.

As an aside, I have cats (and dogs) for rodent control too.  They also make wonderful companions.

Like Tom Worley, we're using other creatures than cats as our prime mouse/rat catchers - mostly owls. Song birds/hummingbirds, which do a lot of insect management, are in decline and struggling, and cats can make that situation worse if they're allowed to free-range. To some extent, our area gets a bad name because people tend to "dump their unwanted cats" figuring their pet will suddenly develop the skills to keep itself alive by hunting.

Part of the issue is how you define your cat - is it a working cat or is it a pet/emotional support?
Part of the issue is whether your homestead is in an ecosystem that supports mice/rats or supports predators of same. Mink and racoon eat rats, but they're a hazard for our chickens, so we don't encourage them, but we tolerate them if they behave (maintain their fear of humans, respect our electric fencing and other no-go zones). The very nature of a food forest/permaculture garden will likely support mice/rats well - rats harvest the seeds from any dropped plums for example, the tree produces far more than we can harvest. However, we *know* that Owl Dad was feeding rat to Owlets two springs ago, so without those seeds, Owlets might have gone hungry. It's all a balance and to some degree, a guessing game. In my area, I wish fewer people would allow their cats to free-range, as it appears to over-all be a detriment. However, I had a friend who tried very hard to have an indoor-only cat, and eventually had to give up, as the cat had other ideas.

I am v much a cat lady, so my feelings are that my cat’s rightful place is with me, and therefore if I’m on a permaculture homestead, it becomes his rightful place too.

If I try to look at it from a less biased perspective, I think pest control is a valid argument for their inclusion. Isn’t it the same as planting certain plants to attract predatory insects that eat aphids? More environmentally conscious than putting down rodent poison everywhere, surely?

If you don’t like or want cats, I dare say there are other equally valid ways to achieve the same effect. I think terrier dogs were bred for rat catching. Or you may have natural predators, like others have already mentioned.

I don’t think one person can outright judge anything as having no place in a permaculture system. There’s such a variety of pests, environmental conditions, locations, weather patterns etc.

Hi Sage and all,

in line with what many have pointed out, I'd say it always depends.

From an ecological perspective, the main  issue would be that cats also eat other creatures that have an important function in the balance of the system (a managed ecosystem,  connected to unmanaged ecosystems neighbouring it).

Question would be, can our system support that level predator (has it reached a point through the plant natural sucession to create the appropriate habitat / niche for such a predator) ? If not or unknown, can you limit the acess of the cat to the ecologically most sensitive areas?  

FOr instance, I have a wild boar AND mice problem right now.  The neighbours  cats are no longer coming to the land because we have had to install electric fencing to keep the boars out. I know there are falcons, owls, ravens and snakes around that can eat the mice (just seen a raven catch one), but likely not as efficient as a cat in controlling the mice population. However the cats where also eating the geckos, that help keep the balance in the agroforestry gardens.

The bottom line for me is to have the principles in mind, and be aware of the consequences and try to find a solution for the specific set of circunstances, that maintains coherence with those principles.

I love cats too

Hope this is useful.

Cheers!