Clay!!

We just moved to east Tennessee in December. We have a house built (not quite finished but getting there). It seems like our soil (well, clay) is always wet - and really bad when it has rained. There is a grove of fir, pine and cedar trees (it's small but beautiful) and I was thinking of putting medicinals and herbs throughout it, along with fruit trees. Planning to do raised beds in other areas for the garden. We are finding a lot of earthworms, so I guess we have decent soil?
Any advice about planting fruit trees where the ground is nearly always squishy? Is it even possible to put a garden in ground like this? Anywhere we have dug holes (even the high ground), they fill up with water...
Thanks!

For problems with clay to me building your soil and using earthworks like swales and berms seems to be what would work.

Here are some threads that you or others might find interesting:

https://permies.com/t/108953/improve-clay-soils-growing-year

https://permies.com/t/175528/Long-game-clay-soil-fixing

https://permies.com/t/169301/Dam-Swale-Hugel

https://permies.com/t/176065/Mud-woes

There is a grove of fir, pine and cedar trees (it's small but beautiful) and I was thinking of putting medicinals and herbs throughout it, along with fruit trees.

That grove of fir, pine, and cenar may not be the best place to try to start a forest garden.  There are several different thoughts on this.

Most plants and trees will not like the soil under these trees plus then there is a lack of sunlight.

Planning to do raised beds in other areas for the garden.

This would be good to have a food forest.

Dr. Bryant Redhawk's Soil Series will help you learn how to build your soil into something that will grow lovely veggies:

https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil

Hi Tammy, Welcome to Permies,

I don't suppose you could be specific about which part of Eastern Tennessee you are talking about?  I am somewhat familiar with the area.  I am not trying to pry, I just want to help as much as possible.

I live in the southern tip of Illinois and we have thick clay as well.  Truthfully, wet, sticky clay is not the best time to plant, if for no other reason than the fact that the clay really sticks to the shovels and tools and generally makes a mess.  I have never tried it, but I wonder if rubbing/spraying down the shovel blades down with vegetable oil would make the mud slide off easier.  I have tried this with wet snow and it does work.  But if you are determined to plant now anyways, I would think about getting some organic materials to throw down around the area, just to help manage the mud.  I generally would backfill with a mixture of the clay and bagged topsoil, again, just to make the clay more manageable.  Some sand may also help, but you will have to make that judgement yourself.  I don't want your soil to dry into cement.  Some type of organic matter is always a good thing to have in the backfill mix, but it would have to be very fine--no whole leaves, but maybe very finely shredded leaves.  Wood chips--more like sawdust--would also be a good amendment for managing moisture.

If you wanted to wait just a little bit for some of the gloppy stickiness to dry out, things may work better.  The clay soil, while not sloppy wet, will still hold plenty of moisture so the trees will get plenty of water as they need it as they grow.  I suppose you could still dig out those holes for the root balls, but what a mess at this time!  I would think that the tree itself would be fine, but the clay is just so slick and muddy that it is all to easy to make a mess of things for no real benefit as far as I can see.

But if you do want to do it now, as I stated above, I would lay down organic material--grass, leaves, wood chips, straw, etc. just to keep things nice and tidy(er).  I would think that straw would be the best and most easily available and most easily transportable of all the options, but by all means, let your imagination wander.

These are just a few ideas.  I have planted any trees, but I avoid doing so in wet weather like we have right now--and judging from your description, it sounds like we not only have similar soil types but for the moment, similar weather as well.

Good luck and please let us know how things go.

Eric

From what I understand, biochar may be just what you're looking for here. Looks like there was a permies thread about this a couple years back:
https://permies.com/t/128679/Biochar-clay
Also found a study on the subject:
https://news2.rice.edu/2014/09/24/study-biochar-alters-water-flow-to-improve-sand-and-clay/
Interestingly it also mentions benefits to be had when you've got the opposite problem - sandy soil that drains too quickly!

Seems like if you wanted to go the low effort route you could apply it on the surface and rely on your earthworm population to drag it under for you. Might take a while, but easier on the back! Otherwise you could give it a boost by digging it in yourself. If you're really committed, you could "double dig" it down a couple of shovel depths into the areas you're planning on turning into raised beds.

In either case, biochar shouldn't be applied raw - the best way to do it is to co-compost it, then apply the char-rich compost. That will add organic matter at the same time, which should also help to improve the clay situation.

Mulberries and paw paws like low laying wet soil.  Clay is no problem, we’ve had good luck building up with woodchips and old hay vs trying to work it in.  Let the worms do that.  What ever you do, don’t try to work it when it is sticky, you’ll turn it into brick

Have you spoken with any neighbours?
They may have some solutions.

Thank you all for your advice!!

Eric, we live in Newport. I will definitely be waiting for the gloppy clay to dry some. Hoping it will when warmer drier weather arrives.

Mike, I will have to look into the biochar possibility!

Gray, thanks for the recommendations! I think my son has been looking at those two possibilities!

John, I have seen one neighbor with a garden. I will try to talk with them. We tread lightly around here with neighbors - you never know here if you should actually pull into someones place...

Once we actually get to the point we can start some sort of growing, I will keep you all posted. First we have to get the house finished so we can actually live and function there!!

Hi Tammy,

Welcome to Permies.  I am familiar with the region.  I understand your hesitation ... keeping good relations with the neighbors is critical for success.  If you do go the neighbor route, be sure to compliment them and ask for their advice.   I am sure there are a number of nurseries in the area, you may want to check there if you don’t take the neighbor approach.

I am surprised 'calling into the neighbours' is an issue.
Coming from Australia, the problem would be if you did not call in!
I am interested to hear about that issue.
Anyway enjoy the house as is comes along

The neighbors here keep to themselves. They wave and they have stopped on the road to say the place is looking good. But they like their privacy.
I am going to talk to the local nursery.
This is the kind of place you want to get in good with the locals.