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What to do with Douglas fir pine cones

 
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I have a small (very small) 'forest' of Douglas fir trees on one side of my house.  I have millions and millions of these rock-hard, turd-shaped pine cones covering the ground.  Looking at a bunch of google images, I think they are the male cones (the small ones in this photo:  https://www.onthewingphotography.com/wings/portfolio-items/female-and-male-cones-on-a-douglas-fir-in-spring/)

At first, I thought I could compost them, even though I knew it would take a while to break down.  I had read you could do that.   But they never seem to break down... they just stay in the compost, hard and turd-shaped.  

l've tried to use them as 'mulch' around some of my plants, but they don't really look that great, and my chickens then just scratch at them and spread them all over the place.

They're sort of a hazard to walk around, because they cause unsteady footing.

I rake them up into a pile, but at this point, I can't figure out what to do with them except use them as tinder for my fireplace insert or add them to the burn pile.  I raked for over an hour the other day and now have a pile that's 6' in diameter and 1 foot tall.

If they were the 'normal' pinecones that have 'petals' that stick out, I think they might compost.  But that's not what these are.

Does anyone have experience with dealing with these?
 
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Why not recycle them into something useful?  Or maybe you could sell them something like these cute ones:


source


source


source


source


source
 
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I think I would burn them in a TLUD, to create biochar.
If this wasn't viable I would try soaking them to softened them up, then blend them with a drill mounted cement paddle.
A garbage disposal might work too.
The resulting mess should be pretty nitrogen heavy, so compost accordingly.
 
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I had the same thought as William, but Loretta mentions a "fireplace insert".  We make biochar in a "warming tray" (think self-serve restaurant stainless rectangular tray) that we put in the fireplace when there's a good bed of coals and leave it until the fire cools. I put whatever I have in the tray - usually a mix of things like pinecones, plum pits from jam making, sawdust from firewood cutting, certain weeds after they're dried that are hard to compost etc.
 
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What I might do is propagate a bunch of trees from the dried/opened cones and sell/trade on local craigslist type sites. Healthy saplings will sell, at least where I am. I might even try my hand at some beginner bonsai techniques- meditative, fun and potential for side income.

For cones that are still green, maybe look into making a syrup of them if you haven't already? I know it works with the douglas fir tips (can even make jelly from this), and pinecone syrup is something I've seen people make and have been wanting to try myself.
 
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I don't have any Douglas Firs on my property, but my parents do. They collect a bunch of them to use as kinding when starting a fire in their woodstove. I've used them that way, too, and they work pretty well. My parents also fill an antique bucket by their woodstove with the doug fir cones, and that works nicely as decoration, as well as a handy source of kindling!
 
Loretta Liefveld
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William Bronson wrote:I think I would burn them in a TLUD, to create biochar.
If this wasn't viable I would try soaking them to softened them up, then blend them with a drill mounted cement paddle.
A garbage disposal might work too.
The resulting mess should be pretty nitrogen heavy, so compost accordingly.



oh yeah, my hubby would feel wonderful about my ruining my kitchen garbage disposal with pinecones - haha.    Not to mention that the mess would go down the drain to my septic system.

I'd love to create  some biochar with them.   I don't currently have a TLUD... googling DIY options and 'for purchase' options.

Interesting thought about a cement paddle.    We might have one of those.

Thanks for the ideas.
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Jay Angler wrote:I had the same thought as William, but Loretta mentions a "fireplace insert".  We make biochar in a "warming tray" (think self-serve restaurant stainless rectangular tray) that we put in the fireplace when there's a good bed of coals and leave it until the fire cools. I put whatever I have in the tray - usually a mix of things like pinecones, plum pits from jam making, sawdust from firewood cutting, certain weeds after they're dried that are hard to compost etc.



Very, very interesting!  We have a restaurant-supply store 'close' (about 70 miles).  I was just there a few days ago :(.    But I think we'll have another trip coming up soon.  I'll have to get one of those trays.  
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Nicole Alderman wrote:I don't have any Douglas Firs on my property, but my parents do. They collect a bunch of them to use as kinding when starting a fire in their woodstove. I've used them that way, too, and they work pretty well. My parents also fill an antique bucket by their woodstove with the doug fir cones, and that works nicely as decoration, as well as a handy source of kindling![/quote}

I HAVE used them sometimes like that - fill about 1/2 a paper shopping bag, roll up the top, and use as kindling.   That just barely touches the amount of pinecones we have, though.

 
Loretta Liefveld
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Anne Miller wrote:Why not recycle them into something useful?  Or maybe you could sell them something like these cute ones:



Well, if I had that kind of time on my hands, that would certainly be a great thing to do.   Unfortunately, I'm totally up to my eyeballs with trying to convert my clay and basalt rock soil into something I can actually work with something besides a pick ax.
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Jonah Bassman wrote:What I might do is propagate a bunch of trees from the dried/opened cones and sell/trade on local craigslist type sites. Healthy saplings will sell, at least where I am. I might even try my hand at some beginner bonsai techniques- meditative, fun and potential for side income.

For cones that are still green, maybe look into making a syrup of them if you haven't already? I know it works with the douglas fir tips (can even make jelly from this), and pinecone syrup is something I've seen people make and have been wanting to try myself.



I've cut douglas fir tips for tea, but have never heard of making syrup from the pine cones.   Unfortunately, these trees are about 100' tall, and the lowest branches are over 8 feet from the ground.   Only the brown ones fall, not the green ones.  
 
Anne Miller
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I liked what Nicole's parents do by using them for kindling.

If you have too many to use in your fireplace why not give them as gifts at Christmas for your friend to use for kindling in their fireplace.

Making Biochar as William and Jay suggested is a really good idea to help your clay soil.

Here are some threads you or others might enjoy:

https://permies.com/t/170798/biochar-worth

https://permies.com/t/155500/Amending-soil-Biochar-Discuss

You might also enjoy Dr. Bryant's Soil Series:

https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
 
Loretta Liefveld
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I tried to post a picture that I uploaded to a blog, but when I preview the message, the picture is gigantic!   You can't even see all of it.   How do I make the picture smaller?  I tried to edit the [img] tag, but was unsuccessful.
 
Nicole Alderman
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Loretta Liefveld wrote:I tried to post a picture that I uploaded to a blog, but when I preview the message, the picture is gigantic!   You can't even see all of it.   How do I make the picture smaller?  I tried to edit the [img] tag, but was unsuccessful.



What you want to do is add      width=500     (or whatever width you want) inside the [img ] tag.

The image code would look something like this:

[img]https://permies.com/mooseImages/betaview/permaculture-gardener-edited.png width=500[/img]

The normal forum image size is 700 pixels, so if you want it to be all the way across the screen, go for 700 pixels. If you want it half the size, go for something like 350 pixels.

There's actually a bunch more customizing you can do with code on images. You can make images into links (if you want to guide people back to your blog), add alt text, add captions, etc. There's a tutorial on all this stuff here: https://permies.com/wiki/52623/formatting-tags-permies-posts-awesome.

I hope that helps!
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Nicole Alderman wrote:

Loretta Liefveld wrote:I tried to post a picture that I uploaded to a blog, but when I preview the message, the picture is gigantic!   You can't even see all of it.   How do I make the picture smaller?  I tried to edit the [img] tag, but was unsuccessful.



What you want to do is add      width=500     (or whatever width you want) inside the [img ] tag.

The image code would look something like this:

[img]https://permies.com/mooseImages/betaview/permaculture-gardener-edited.png width=500[/img]



Thanks so much!   I was putting the 'width=' in the wrong place!  I'll try again.
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Loretta Liefveld wrote:
If they were the 'normal' pinecones that have 'petals' that stick out, I think they might compost.  But that's not what these are.



Here's a picture of a pile of mostly pinecones (with needles and some sticks from fallen branches) that I raked from an 8'x10' section of my dirt/gravel driveway.  This pile is about 6'x8' and in some places it's almost a foot tall.



Here's a closeup of some of the pinecones.   I think the bigger one is a female and the smaller ones are males.  Notice that the 'petals' (don't know what to call those things that usually stick out on a pinecone) aren't 'open'.  The big one is about 2 or 2 1/2 inches long.    The smaller ones are about 1 1/2 inches long.   There are many, many more of the small ones.

 
Jay Angler
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Loretta Liefveld wrote:

The big one is about 2 or 2 1/2 inches long.    The smaller ones are about 1 1/2 inches long.   There are many, many more of the small ones.

They would be perfect for in the wood-stove biochar production and you'd go through the pile amazingly quick. Some sawdust/woodchips/pine needles in with would be great but you need it all to dry out if possible - in short buckets or cardboard boxes in a sunny but covered spot could be enough.

If you get the warming tray, for biochar you need to get the lid without the "spoon hole". We had more trouble getting the lids than the trays, so I thought I'd specifically mention that. If you trust the shop you mentioned above, I'd be tempted to call and see if they'd let you pre-pay over the phone so they'll set it aside for you. If the cost isn't unreasonable, I recommend two sets - that way you can get a couple organized at a time. If they don't cool completely in your insert, make sure you plan for a safe place to put a hot pan down as well.
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Jay Angler wrote:
If you get the warming tray, for biochar you need to get the lid without the "spoon hole". We had more trouble getting the lids than the trays, so I thought I'd specifically mention that. If you trust the shop you mentioned above, I'd be tempted to call and see if they'd let you pre-pay over the phone so they'll set it aside for you. If the cost isn't unreasonable, I recommend two sets - that way you can get a couple organized at a time. If they don't cool completely in your insert, make sure you plan for a safe place to put a hot pan down as well.



haha - Glad you mentioned that.   When I read the first post about the warming tray, I didn't even picture having a lid on it at all, and wondered how an open tray would create biochar.    Duh.   Also hadn't thought about the spoon hole that most of them have.   Thanks for the tip!
 
William Bronson
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When I suggested a garbage disposal, I was thinking of a recycled item  dedicated to shredding biomass.
A potential low tech alternative is a meat grinder.
I happen to have some of each , standing by for when I get back to them:
garbage-disposal.jpg
[Thumbnail for garbage-disposal.jpg]
 
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That is a good pile.  By chance do you have a tractor?  Spreading those out and running back and forth, especially if you run a path regularly and raking them back into the wheel track should allow you to break them down nicely.  Once they are crushed well, they can then be mixed with other compost and used around shrubs or even other Douglas fir you want to keep.  Any acid loving plant should find them tasty.  Mixing in some gypsum (which can be found in used drywall board with the paper removed) will add calcium and magnesium without increasing the alkaline levels.  I would bet that ground fir cones would work wonderfully for garden paths to walk on once reduced by your wheels.  A vehicle will perform similarly, although you might want to spread the cones in a thinner layer to reduce bouncing.
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Richard Henry wrote:That is a good pile.  By chance do you have a tractor?  Spreading those out and running back and forth, especially if you run a path regularly and raking them back into the wheel track should allow you to break them down nicely.  Once they are crushed well, they can then be mixed with other compost and used around shrubs or even other Douglas fir you want to keep.  Any acid loving plant should find them tasty.  Mixing in some gypsum (which can be found in used drywall board with the paper removed) will add calcium and magnesium without increasing the alkaline levels.  I would bet that ground fir cones would work wonderfully for garden paths to walk on once reduced by your wheels.  A vehicle will perform similarly, although you might want to spread the cones in a thinner layer to reduce bouncing.



Yes, we do have a tractor, although most of these fall in an area difficult to get the tractor into.  Do you think running an ATV over them a bunch of times would work?   In our other driveway, they just get mostly flattened, but not really broken up when we drive over them.  I think I'll try this.  Should be less intensive, effort-wise.

P.S.  The ducks and chickens do like the pile of pinecones, and sometimes lay eggs there.
 
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If you're thinking of making biochar, I wouldn't personally bother buying a new steam table bin or any new item. Just go to your local thrift store (or big garage sale) and pick up an old Dutch oven or other cast iron pot with lid. I've been given 3 for nothing and rotate them into our woodstove.
 
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Dave Way wrote:If you're thinking of making biochar, I wouldn't personally bother buying a new steam table bin or any new item. Just go to your local thrift store (or big garage sale) and pick up an old Dutch oven or other cast iron pot with lid. I've been given 3 for nothing and rotate them into our woodstove.

Consider yourself very lucky, Dave!
I've been looking for a pair of matching Dutch ovens or cast iron for over 5 years and not been lucky enough to find one, let alone a pair. I broke down and bought one round Dutch oven that was on sale, as I really wanted to be able to make no-knead sourdough bread. Many of my friends are glad I broke down also - it's Easter weekend, and at least 2 families and possibly a 3rd are getting homemade bread as a treat. So much depends on what is valued in your vicinity, and what resources are on one's beaten path.
 
Loretta Liefveld
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Didn't even think about a cast iron Dutch oven.   I have a gigantic one that was left in our tack shed when we bought our house.  I will definitely try that, since I already have it.   I also have a small one that is new, but wouldn't want to put a new one in the wood stove!
 
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Loretta Liefveld wrote:Didn't even think about a cast iron Dutch oven.   I have a gigantic one that was left in our tack shed when we bought our house.  I will definitely try that, since I already have it.   I also have a small one that is new, but wouldn't want to put a new one in the wood stove!

Do check that it will fit while the stove is cool, and still allow wood and coals around it. Before we bought the warming trays, I was using an old stainless pot, but it wouldn't fit through the door with the lid on, so it made to process less safe and more fiddly. I totally like to re-use before buying new, but I also believe in safety first!
 
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I can't believe no one mentioned the best use of all! Cone wars! You gather up your pile of cones and just start throwing them back and forth. Like a snowball fight... At least that's one of the things my kids do with them and they seem to enjoy it. 😜 That and they randomly fill up my garden pots with them and store them away like squirrels. I think they sometimes dump them on each other. They come in handy in their pretend kitchens as standins did various food items. Douglas fir cone pizza, anyone?

I did think it odd that you have such a problem with them when I first read your post because I thought, "Huh, I have quite a lot of Douglas firs and I rarely see them just laying around in a thick layer on the ground." But now I think that the kids must be making a dent in the supply with all their play.
 
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Jenny Wright wrote:

when I first read your post because I thought, "Huh, I have quite a lot of Douglas firs and I rarely see them just laying around in a thick layer on the ground.

I have plenty of Doug Fir, but how much the cones are noticeable seems to be about which way the wind is blowing when they come down. We've got two gravel "farm roads", one goes north to our "big field" and one goes east to our new garden/workshop area. I'm often wheeling carts of some sort and running into cones is a nuisance, so if the wind or the squirrels have knocked a lot of cones down on either road, I tend to rake them up.

They take a *long* time to decompose in my composts. That doesn't bother me, as I consider it the same concept of building a hugel - it's sequestering carbon and holding moisture, so let it take its time. I've seen plant roots grow through the gaps in a cone, anchoring themselves and I expect harvesting something they want from them. That said, coming up with more uses that might be better than "compost" because it helps in a different way or might be brilliant for my property is always a good thing.
 
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