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wells and springs

Sprinkler pumps? shallow (30') well pumps for irrigation?

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posted 4 years ago

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We've been searching for a shallow well potable water pump for drought time garden watering.
The well has 24' of water 10' from the surface with a six inch casing.
Has been covered in the well house here for probably 30 years or more and was used for the house water before municipal water came through so assuming it will replenish often enough to be useful.

Just ran across sprinkler pumps and that sounds exactly what we are interested in so am wondering if anyone here has experience with one and recommendations?

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John C Daley

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posted 4 years ago

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Install a bladder tank to ensure the pump is not switching on and off.
Match the pump flow with the sprinklers total outflow.
Be mind full of pressure losses.
Use large pipe to the sprinklers and try to run a circular layout, not a lateral [ tree like ] system so the sprinklers have similar output.

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Judith Browning

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Thank you John
Good advice...
We were hoping to keep the set up as simple and low cost as possible. Running a hose from pump to garden and manually turning the pump on and off as needed with no pressure tank....is that possible?

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

John C Daley

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posted 4 years ago

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I have to ask some questions.
- What are you trying to keep growing
- how many times will you need to move it
- how often will you water
- what is the cost of one sprinkler
- what is the cost of the pump

Mike Haasl

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Yes, it's very possible. A normal sprinkler pump from the hardware store should do the trick but make sure it says it can exceed the amount of lift you'll be expecting it to do. The 10' down to water is the number you're after even if your suction hose goes 15 more feet down into the well. Unless it sucks the level down quickly and then the "working" water level would be the amount the pump has to lift.

I'd put a "foot valve" on the inlet so that once you get it primed it won't lose prime between watering events.

I'm assuming the pump doesn't have to push the water more than 40' uphill from the pump's location? Otherwise you'd need to be mindful of the pump's specs in that department as well.

Manually turning it on and off is just fine for your purposes.

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Judith Browning

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posted 4 years ago

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John C Daley wrote:I have to ask some questions.
- What are you trying to keep growing
- how many times will you need to move it
- how often will you water
- what is the cost of one sprinkler
- what is the cost of the pump

We won't be moving the pump, only the hose connected to it.
How often we water will depend on the weather and how quickly this shallow well replenishes.
We have the sprinkler already.
The sprinkler pumps cost around $150 depending on brand and quality.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

Judith Browning

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posted 4 years ago

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Mike Haasl wrote:Yes, it's very possible. A normal sprinkler pump from the hardware store should do the trick but make sure it says it can exceed the amount of lift you'll be expecting it to do. The 10' down to water is the number you're after even if your suction hose goes 15 more feet down into the well. Unless it sucks the level down quickly and then the "working" water level would be the amount the pump has to lift.

I'd put a "foot valve" on the inlet so that once you get it primed it won't lose prime between watering events.

I'm assuming the pump doesn't have to push the water more than 40' uphill from the pump's location? Otherwise you'd need to be mindful of the pump's specs in that department as well.

Manually turning it on and off is just fine for your purposes.

Thanks Mike...
The area is pretty flat in all directions so no elevation unless we fill a 50 gallon barrel at one of the locations. Planning to move 150' of hose to whatever needs the water, usually just freshly planted seeds or very young plants.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

Mike Haasl

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posted 4 years ago

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Cool, then the elevation won't be a problem. The length of hose may pose a restriction, no way to know till you try it out. Bigger diameter garden hoses will be better. If all the plants are in the same direction, putting in 100' of 1" black poly irrigation pipe from the pump towards the garden, then going with a garden hose from there would be an option. But I'd only do that if the pressure is too low at the end of your intended set-up.

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John C Daley

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posted 4 years ago

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Dragging a hose 150' may drive you mad.
Mikes idea of running a black poly main pipe [ large diameter ] will help a lot, because the loss
of flow [ pressure ] through 150 ft of hose will be great, causing the pump to work harder.
Could you fit a tank somewhere, pump to that and gravitate from that tank to the watering spots?

Mike Haasl

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Thanks John! Gravity won't run sprinklers though. It's dicey for drip unless you have a healthy elevation drop from the tank to the irrigation line. Judith says she's on flat ground so.....

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Judith Browning

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posted 1 year ago

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thanks john and mike!

finally back to this project...we've borrowed a well bucket and have emptied twice...rusty colored but no smell and looking clearer.

It takes 50 two gallon well buckets (100) gallons to get down towards the bottom so even summer time when the water table is lower, hoping for 40 gallons to replenish daily.

...back to pricing pumps.

-something for potable water and something that could last our lifetime and beyond.

-planning to use daily over the summer during the drought.

-I would like to be able to store the water in our cubes and barrels when we run out of rainwater.

Any recommendations for brands?

I lost track of one we liked on line that was for potable water and also had brass or maybe stainless parts?

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

Judith Browning

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Location: a temperate, clay/loam spot on planet earth, the universe

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posted 4 months ago

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back to sprinkler pumps....

does anyone use one?
recommended brands?

we're going to run 100' of 1" black poly ~~yuck~~ pipe to the garden and add a faucet so can use a hose.

stuck on what pump to get....whether a sprinkler pump or go all out for a jet pump and pressure tank?
https://permies.com/t/284766/electric-shallow-pump-questions

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

Judith Browning

Posts: 10601

Location: a temperate, clay/loam spot on planet earth, the universe

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posted 4 months ago

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redlion brand?

https://redlionproducts.com/lawn-irrigation/

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

John C Daley

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posted 4 months ago

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Firstly look at ball valves, they have less resistance for water flow and pressure.
With pumps are you going for a submersible or a suction pimp?

Judith Browning

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posted 4 months ago

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John C Daley wrote:Firstly look at ball valves, they have less resistance for water flow and pressure.
With pumps are you going for a submersible or a suction pump?

we were looking at jet pumps, not submersable pumps.

Now we are back at sprinkler pumps and looking at the red lion brand sprinkler pump in this pdf link
https://redlionproducts.com/media/69873/106905105_rl-sprk_series_manual.pdf

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

John C Daley

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posted 4 months ago

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The specifications written for your pump is written differently from what I expected, and. I did a google search to understand what was written, "offers easy prime up to 25 feet and requires no additional priming after",
I expected something like, " Max. pump lift is 25 feet" or similar.

search result;
'The pump can draw water from a source (well, lake, tank) located up to 25 feet below the pump's position without needing manual assistance every time.'

but that pump will lift water 25 feet.

Judith Browning

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Location: a temperate, clay/loam spot on planet earth, the universe

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posted 2 months ago

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Saving this link here while we check out this pump.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Red-Lion-Pumps-614432-RJSE-75SS-115V-3-4-HP-11-GPM-Stainless-Steel-Sprinkler-Utility-Pump-w-8-ft-Cord-Red

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

John C Daley

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posted 2 months ago

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That pump looks ok.
You will need to prime the pump with water, which means fill the pump housing via that black plug.
Mikes idea of the foot valve is still good.
I install a small tank near the pump so I can prime it without walking around looking for water to do so.
It helps.

Judith Browning

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posted 1 week ago

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Thanks John!

We just got the pump....will get the rest of the things within the week (I hope) and maybe trying it out before much longer.
It does call for a footvalve.

IMG_20260807_043334_868-2.jpg

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

John Weiland

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posted 5 days ago

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Hi Judith,

It looks like we may both have gotten the same pump. I picked up this Red Lion at a local retailer. It's a 3/4 hp 120VAC model with 1" intake and ejection ports. I already had a 1" inside diameter suction hose laying around so modified that to attach to the intake port. At the other end of the hose is the foot valve....for that I'm using a synthetic version from Merrill (reputable brand for water hydrants, pictured below), although I have a brass one on hand if this does not hold up. You can see from the photo of a test run the volume of water being produced, although the hose run is quite short....I've simply put the suction hose in a pool and am circulating the discharge back into the same pool. This allowed me to get readings on a Kil-O-Watt meter as to how many watts of power were being drawn by this pump. It was pretty close to the stated specs---~600W for a 0.75 hp motor powering the pump. I will need to use this remotely, so I'm also showing the inverter/battery set-up for powering the pump. The two 12V LiFePO4 batteries (100 Ah each) had barely dropped in capacity over my ~5 - 10 min. of testing. The plan is to use this for garden watering for about 60 min. every other day as a maximum during our droughty period, much less during summers of 'normal' rainfall. As the pump was drawing 25 amps from each battery, they should easily be enough juice for the ~25 Ah needed by each for a watering period. A solar panel + controller will be used for recharging. Initially, I was planning on having the whole operation located near the water source with protection from the weather. I'm thinking now of just creating weather protection for the pump and leaving the batteries and inverter in my golf cart or 4X4 which can easily be positioned in proximity of the pump for each watering. I'll try to post more after some 'real world' use. Hope this helps!.....

SynFootValve.jpg

PumpSetup.jpg

PumpInAction.jpg

Inverter-Batteries.jpg

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Judith Browning

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posted 5 days ago

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It is the same one John!
Have not got up to testing this one but that's a great idea to run through a tub of water before the well...I will suggest to Steve. The set up is his area.

Back to the hardware store tomorrow for something? and then ready.

He called RedLions help # and got a helpful tech person who answered several questions, including about adding a valve outside the pump house so I can adjust the flow to the garden and he says that's ok as long as it's not too low or turned off there.

RedLion is owned by Frederic Electric now.

We're a little concerned that there is no automatic shut off when water level is too low but will watch carefully and learn how long that takes.

looking forward to seeing yours in place watering your gardens...are you using sprinklers or hoses or drip?

IMG_20260809_132754_547-2.jpg

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

John Weiland

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Location: RRV of da Nort, USA

935

posted 5 days ago

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Judith Browning wrote:..........

looking forward to seeing yours in place watering your gardens...are you using sprinklers or hoses or drip?

Just doing it "the old way".... :-) ...standing there watching the water spout out of the hose and into the plant bed. Even though the pump is rated to run continuously, the size of the garden and clay content of the soil allows for soaking in patches in a concentrated way, then being able to skip a day and let the clay hold the water a bit longer so immediate water is not needed again for a day or two. It takes a good solid hour for our garden size. Bigger concerns still are (a) watering during warm temperatures (90s F) and hoping all electrical components can handle this and (b) murky water. My previous gas pump, in the shop just now for repair, is a "semi-trash" pump typically used during floodiing....so some sllt in the water is no problem for it. I'm hoping the footvalve filter does a good enough job at removing debris on the new pump since it's pretty firm in the instructions that it needs to run on clear-ish/clean water.

I hope to attempt a test run today and tomorrow just for functionality, but not really use if for watering until mid-week. A first rain in many weeks may move in this week, so we will see!

PS.... The pump does not appear to have an on/off switch (?), so I bought one of those in-line switches to plug into the power cord (below).

CordSwitch.jpg

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John Weiland

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posted 3 days ago

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The pump is working well so far......considering some hiccups in getting everything prepared at the last moment and needing to get water onto the plants. Some mistakes today were trying to get a good solution to having the footvalve submerged, but not on the muddy bottom of the river. Still some work to do there. Then when it started pumping, several pressure leaks were apparent around the PVC fittings that I had used.....and had forgotten to use plumber's teflon tape when making the connections. But the batteries drove the pump like a champ and water was moving well up the hose. The total vertical height from pump to garden is ~20 ft and the run of hose to get there is ~150 ft. With that it mind, the flow seemed a bit better than the current well pressure. Since this was a first run, I decided to just give the garden a once-over spending about 30 min instead of the usual hour. In that time, with the pump running continuously, the batteries went from 97% state of charge to 83%. Since the batteries and inverter stay on the back of the golf cart during this time, they are easily transported back up to the garage for re-charging or to a solar station for such in the future. Time will tell now given the water clarity of the river how long the pump will perform at a satisfactory level. For now, very pleased!

The first photos exemplify the current drought. A photo from last fall shows normal height of river and second photo with pump showing low water level. A few extra garden pics added....June potatoes vs now when they are starting to die back. Jerusalem artichokes to the right of those rows. Also Hungarian Wax peppers, yellow 'Taxi' tomatoes, and water streaming out of the hose into the paste tomatoes.

NormalRiver.jpg

LowRiver.jpg

TallTaters.jpg

TatersNchokes.jpg

HungarianWaxPeppers.jpg

TaxiTomatoes.jpg

Waterflow.jpg

FootvalveInRiver.jpg

“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein

Judith Browning

Posts: 10601

Location: a temperate, clay/loam spot on planet earth, the universe

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posted 3 days ago

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this is great to see John!
We have some concerns about the foot valve also and even asked the tech guy about adding another filter and he said don't do it.
This well has an iron pipe and had been sitting for a long time so there are rusty bits if we pull water from close to the bottom. We are only running the intake pipe 25' down so that will leave 8 or 9 feet from the foot valve to the bottom and hopefully won't stir it up.

I'm really excited to finally have this well usable for the gardens.
We've had an exceptionally wet summer this year so watering has not been urgent except for a very few things....but most summers the rains stop in june and it can be dry through october.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi
"It's all one song!" -Neil Young

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