Giant pumpkins in the tropics - please help

Hi all,

I struggled a few times to grow the Atlantic Giant pumpkin in Thailand.

My thoughts were we might have not the right pollinator so I tried hand pollination. Failed
I tried more shade. Failed
I created a manure pile and matured it as we do in Germany. Failed
Beside of the compost heap failed too.
In my Aquaponics system failed also...

But I am not giving up because that's the pumpkin you want to pickle sweet and sour....

Has anyone who lives in a tropical climate ever had success to grow the (Atlantic) giant pumpkin?

My last hope would be that I need for pollination at least two plants. Is that maybe the stone of wisdom?

I strongly believe there must be somebody out here in this forum who can post a picture or an answer with a grin on the face because he/she harvests giants every year...

Thanks for your reply....

Hi, what do you mean by failing? No fruit at all or it's not as giant as you expect?
Where did you get the seeds from? I got mine from Walmart and the pumpkin turned out just the size of regular Halloween pumpkin. There are people selling seeds from contest winners and they can be pricey.

I grew big max before ( big max held the largest pumpkin record before dill Atlantic came out) and it had a diameter of over 60 cm. I couldn't lift it up to weigh.
If you pickle such a big pumpkin, you will need lots of jars!

Also do you have the pickle recipe to share?
I heard that giant pumpkin is bland in taste, maybe that makes it more suitable for pickling?
I found this old picture of kids with the Big Max. Too bad I didn't even try tasting it and it just ended up rotting in the yard.

Hi May

they didn't get fruit at all.

You are living in USDA Zone 6 while I am living in USDA Zone 12.
Despite this the plants are looking strong and healthy as they would look in Germany before.
They just don't set fruit.

East Frisian Pumpkin sweet and sour pickled

If you have a 10-12 lbs pumpkin you need:

2 liter Water
2lb Sugar
0.1 liter Vinegar Essence
10 Cloves
1-2 Cinnamon sticks
1 Teaspoon Salt
30 Grams Ginger

You peel the pumpkin and make sure the hard rind is complete peeled and also take the spongy seed chamber completely out.
You want to end up with the dense flesh in blocks of 3/4".

Bring all ingredients to boil until the sugar is dissolved

Give the pumpkin pieces into the cooking mix and just make it boil again.
As soon its boiling remove it from the heat, switch the oven off and then put the pot back on the heat plate and let it rest as hot as it is for about 20 minutes.
Steer it carefully from time to time.

The pumpkin pieces should look slightly glassy and not so soft that they falling apart.

put them hot as they are into jars, close the lid and turn the glass over on a towel where it cools down.

The pumpkins will go well along with roasts and stewed meats/gravy...

See Hes wrote:Hi May

they didn't get fruit at all.

You are living in USDA Zone 6 while I am living in USDA Zone 12.
Despite this the plants are looking strong and healthy as they would look in Germany before.
They just don't set fruit.

So there are still male and female flowers for pollination but no fruit set.
Have you try growing local varieties or squashes that will thrive in other hot and humid area like Florida?

I hate to say this, but you may have to start with a tropical pumpkin that you like, and do a breeding program for size. Most of the giant pumpkins here in Canada, have been bred for our climates.
Possible issues:
1. Day length - if they're day length sensitive, they may not set fruit at other times.
2. Cross pollination - I have one that's setting fruit despite being self-pollinated, but the plants that are doing really well have a group together. Mine are definitely bee pollinated, but I've been known to help out the bees by taking a male flower and direct pollinating.
3. Yes, they are heavy feeders, but I've got a volunteer that's in so-so soil and it's producing (it's a volunteer that's all on its own in the duck field -  I fenced it hoping it was a melon, but alas, it's some sort of zucchini cross. Boring but edible!)

So if I was you, I'd look for a squash with at least some of the features you like - maybe several in the same subgroup of pumpkins ( https://permies.com/t/46560/Maxima-Moschata-Pepo ) that grow in climate zones near yours and work from there. That may not be the "plug and play" option you were looking for, but if day-length sensitivity is part of the issue, using Northern European seeds may simply be too big a difference.

The wax melon is good for pickling too. I have seen slices being sold in markets in Singapore, very likely they were imported from Malaysia. It should work in Thailand too.

First, there are male flowers at the beginning and in a later stage the females are coming also just as every pumpkin is supposed to flower.

Second. The tropical varieties are more soup pumpkins hence too "floury" or change with their own flavor the pickled pumpkin taste I am used to.

Third. The "European" pumpkin is as frost sensitive than any tropical. Just at the 1st time the weather touches slightly the freezing point the entire plant is dead.

Fourth. Daylight sensitive I do not count on because they have both flowers and the female dies as if it stays un-pollinated.

I personally believe I have contained the problem and it's because of the single plant.
But as you can read above I spent now 4 seasons believing I had contained the problem and I really don't want spend more seasons.

there must be folks from the tropics who have seen or grown this pumpkin type or can tell it didn't work out for them too. Also not with more than one plant.

I am not sure if this is relevant or not. I bought an acorn squash from the store and grew the seeds. F1 fruit looked like the parent and one F2 plant just wouldn't set fruit after four hand pollination attempts. I suspected it was self incompatible and pollinated with at least 4-5 different types of squashes( Pepo/moschata/maxima). I didn't know which one worked but the plant finally set fruits. Huge acorn 10 time bigger than the original one.

I actually can help myself in English but this word I have to show in pictures and use a "guess word".

The common tropical pumpkins are more "dusty" to eat....

...and the giant pumpkin has more fibers like meat or very soft pineapple.
The pumpkin well cooked will be still very soft but feels way more juicy.

Sunday roasts we pure the gravy over the hot potatoes and then eat the pumpkin to it.
It is so delicious, an explosion of taste, consistence and hot cold feelings...

I attached this picture, maybe you can see what I mean with the fiber thing.

See, I think I understand what you are trying to describe about the texture of the pumpkins. It is a stringiness that is not tough, and not starchy or mealy. The pieces keep their shape and are not mushy to bite into.

Have you tried Cucurbita ficifolia?  “shark fin melon?” I find it has similar texture to the big pumpkins, and also not a strong flavor. It is a tropical plant. I think it would work well as a sweet vinegar pickle like the pumpkin.

I don’t have the answers for you, but I can make a few suggestions that you can explore. Let it be known that I have not tried growing the Atlantic Giant pumpkin here in Hawaii. Almost all ‘regular’ pumpkin types fail in Hawaii due to a pest called pickle worm, unless the grower takes special steps to thwart the pickle worm moth.

Since you are getting both male and females flowers and are hand pollinating, I would explore the following possibilities……..
1- destruction due to pickle worm. You said that hand pollination failed, but didn’t describe exactly the failure. With pickle worm failure, the immature fruit often just turns yellow and shrivels up, turns brown, falls off. The immature embryonic fruit frequently never gets a chance to enlarge at all, failing along with the flower. To check for pickle worm, do two simple checks. 1- note when the female flower opens. The next morning pluck the flower and split the base open with you finger nails. Often you will see the larval maggots inside, which at that time, can range from 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch long.  2- you can split open the failed embryonic fruit and look for a maggot, too. Do an internet search for pickle worm. See if that’s your problem.
2- you didn’t mention your daytime and nighttime temperatures. I do not think that most pumpkins are heat sensitive, but it is a possibility. Several annual vegetables will fail if the temperatures are too high.
3- what time of day are you doing your hand pollinating? It can make a difference. Flowers tend to release their pollen at specific times. I could be possible that you missing the time that the pollen is mature.  

@Mk Neil
that's what I mean. Mealy and starchy (well known words but sometimes the tongue has it but the brain blocks)

The shark fin pumpkin looks different but even it is not hitting my taste bud it's worth a try.
It still could work as a pollinator for my giants..
Since 20 years living in Thailand I pickled all topical pumpkins I got my hand on, but none was anywhere near Grandmother's pickles.

@Su Ba
we have a few red (ish) beetles that nibble on the leaves and stems.
But so far the dropped little pumpkins were ok inside.
And the beetles are highly appreciated by my father in Law's guinea Fowls, because the pumpkins are a few times per day on their daily route, even they are sometimes too stupid to find the 1 meter gate right beside them at feeding time.

Timing might be another issue but I did many attempts during the day so I would close that one out.

I have heard it many times that plants can't self pollinate even the Thai Dragon fruit is one of them...
Since May did have a crosspollination success I might have to go for some varieties at the same time in hope there is a match between two breeds.
 

I've tried watermelon and pumpkins many times....

There are too many variables in the tropics. When I walk outside it feels like I walked into a sauna, heavy torrential rains for 10 minutes every day, or storms that last hours and flood the place in the afternoon, the sun is scorching, the nights are hot and humid. Take the desert for instance, it's scorching during the day and during the night it gets freezing, tropics are just their own beast.

There is a special pumpkin specifically cultivated for Florida/tropics by Indians: Seminole pumpkin. I just planted them about 2 weeks ago and they're all sprouting, although they're already attracting the plague of Florida: green loopers/cabbage worms. Tiny plants and already having to pick them off. I also planted another Florida winner, Everglades tomatoes. These two are our best bet, apparently they grow wild here as well. Besides these I'm sticking with things mostly native to here, like golden berries, maybe some native Mexican crops like tomatillos, and of course okra + sugarcane are in the ground besides all the fruit trees. Supplemented by sand loving foods such as yams, sweet potatoes, etc...

It's been sinking in that in the tropics we can't grow 95% of the traditional American diet without man-made/forced alterations in place, years I wasted trying to force growing vegetables thinking it was "just me".

I foraged for the first time today and found oak acorns and sweet "tallow plums", did not see any Seminole pumpkins. I would recommend trying to find something you like while foraging and growing it, I already have a tallow plum pit in dirt.

I have not had success with any pumpkin in the tropics, despite lots of trying.
If you are trying to get the pumpkin type intensity of flavor and lack of strings, kabocha type squash may do it for you, they tolerate heat well.
We can get giant squash (heavier than I am), a crookneck kind of long squash with green and orange striped skin, not very moist inside, sometimes with some fibers. They can grow absolutely huge.

Go to Nebraska, you can be like this guy, pumpkin so big he hollowed it out and sailed 41 miles.

The climate in the tropics all depends upon location. Boy did I find that out  when I moved to Hawaii!  Five miles down the road, the weather can be the opposite. And……Hawaii tropical climate isn’t the same for other tropical regions. So as we Permies say, it all depends. What works in Hawaii may not work in Tahiti, Vietnam, etc.

18 years ago I started upon the road to creating a pumpkin that would grow in my area. I wasn’t having any success with seeds that I purchased. Over the years I ended up with 4 strains that are reliable producers in my region. One is small, roundish, and prolific. It’s cousin is a tad larger and shaped like a pear. Another is large and flattish. And the last one is more traditional looking in size and shape, but it’s a pale color. This one is the least prolific, but I kept it because it makes a neat looking pumpkin for Halloween. I tend to keep the four lines segregated on my farm for seed stock purposes, but I grow them all together in the same field down at the food production farm about 10 miles from my place. As a result, gardeners who have saved seeds from the pumpkins they purchase from me tend to find all sorts of interesting shapes and sizes. But the bottom line is that they all are successfully producing in my region.

I started out with kombucha and a few landrace types I purchased at farm markets, though not in my own region. It took a few years to cull out those plants that were susceptible to pests and diseases, or produced not enough  fruits, or had fruits that were too small, too fibrous, too bland.

Pumpkins were one crop that quickly taught me to grow what grows well, not try to go insane growing what doesn’t want to grow. Many veggie varieties from other places simply do poorly for me due to pests, disease, day length, weather. But actually there is very little that I can’t grow. It’s a case of choosing the right variety, the right spot to grow it,  and a willingness to develop simple methods to control the pests and diseases.

Cheers all,

the replies are not that promising, but does it make me giving up?
Certainly NOT! I continue try, and you know why?

Hey,  it's still a ground cover and I am a permie, LOL!