• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • John F Dean
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • paul wheaton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Matt McSpadden

Hidden dangers of hay rings - learn from my experience

 
steward
Posts: 4837
Location: West Tennessee
2440
cattle cat purity fungi trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Last Friday I bought a new hay ring and assembled it by bolting together the three pieces forming a complete circle. The ends of the sections that bolt together are flat. I gave it no further thought. I put the hay ring in the paddock with the cows that afternoon. They checked it out and thought nothing more of it. Saturday morning I put a round bale in it. Today, Sunday morning, less than 24 hours of having hay in it, one of my cows has a laceration across her head between her eye and ear. It's rather long, and looks kinda bad. She cut her head on one of the flat parts and I found the evidence of where it happened. They're not really sharp like the edge of some sheet metal, but sharp enough apparently. I reckon those reading this that have or have had cows know that they can be brutish when rubbing on things or doing whatever they want to do. They seem to lack finesse, except when grooming their calves. I don't know exactly how it happened, but my speculation is she had her head in the end of one section and turned just so while taking a bite, and perhaps another cow or the bull tried to push her out of the way and then somehow she turned & pulled her head just right and cut herself open. I can't see how she would do this scratching an itch. For the time being, I have put duct tape on all the edges of all the flat angle-iron, hoping to avoid any sort of repeat. My plan is to buy something like some 2 inch corrugated wire loom and tie it together with zip ties to wrap or encase all flat edges.

hay-ring.jpeg
hay ring
hay ring
hay-ring-seam.jpeg
hay ring seam
hay ring seam
injured-cow.jpeg
[Thumbnail for injured-cow.jpeg]
 
steward
Posts: 16421
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4319
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sorry to hear that the cow was injured by the hay ring.

Our hay rings were always welded so I had no idea there were bolt-together hay rings.

Is there a way to fix it so that the cows don't get hurt?

I hope you figure something out as I bet those hay rings are not cheap.

Maybe some forum members know of a fix.
 
rocket scientist
Posts: 6479
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
3321
cat pig rocket stoves
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey James;
If that is steel, what about splitting some tubing lengthwise and tacking it on to give nice rounded edges?
 
gardener & hugelmaster
Posts: 3732
Location: Gulf of Mexico cajun zone 8
2005
cattle hugelkultur cat dog trees hunting chicken bee woodworking homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Not sure I've ever seen a bolted together hay ring either. My guess is the cow got wedged then panicked trying to get out.  The wound doesn't look too bad for a cow. I've seen them heal fine from much worse after an antibiotic rinse.
 
Rusticator
Posts: 8772
Location: Missouri Ozarks
4674
6
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Like Mike, I've never seen them bolted together. All the ones I've seen are welded. I'm sorry your poor girl is hurt. Do you have some salve for her wound?
 
pollinator
Posts: 67
Location: North Georgia USA
25
bee building wood heat
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sorry about your cow hope she fully heals. Warning to others, do not use hay rings with long horned cattle or close to water. Good friend of ours lost a Scotch Highland cow to this deadly combination. All she could do was watch in horror as her cow drowned in the pond.
 
gardener
Posts: 3132
2095
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've seen plenty going down the road on trailers disassembled and stacked. Many more can fit when they disassemble and stack together. The vertical seam and the zigzag tubes look from the picture like it creates a very narrow area near the top where they come together. Is it narrower than a cow head? She either maybe forced her head through the too-narrow part, or maybe put her head in the wider part down low and raised it into the too-narrow part. I can definitely see a cow do that last one and freak out.
 
James Freyr
steward
Posts: 4837
Location: West Tennessee
2440
cattle cat purity fungi trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

thomas rubino wrote:Hey James;
If that is steel, what about splitting some tubing lengthwise and tacking it on to give nice rounded edges?



That's a good idea, but one that I think may cost more, take more time, and I've heard that welding galvanized metal produces toxic fumes, more so than welding raw steel.
 
James Freyr
steward
Posts: 4837
Location: West Tennessee
2440
cattle cat purity fungi trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jordan Holland wrote: The vertical seam and the zigzag tubes look from the picture like it creates a very narrow area near the top where they come together. Is it narrower than a cow head?



It is narrower than a cow head, even a cow nose. The little bit of blood and tissue I found was in the middle of the flat part facing the bale, so it didn't happen in the narrow gap but rather just below it.

... or maybe put her head in the wider part down low and raised it into the too-narrow part. I can definitely see a cow do that last one and freak out.



So that I think is entirely possible. Last night I was thinking about Carla's post mentioning some sort of panic, and it seems to me that was likely what happened, a sense of entrapment and panic and she responded by backing up and pulling her head back out differently than the way she got her head in, resulting in the laceration.

 
thomas rubino
rocket scientist
Posts: 6479
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
3321
cat pig rocket stoves
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi James;
Very true about toxic fumes from galvanized.
Being outdoors and using only small tacks, I would go ahead and do it.
Be sure to paint what you burn.  They do make a galvanized paint but any color you have on hand would work.
I think it would be a lifetime safe fix and your cows would not manage to gash themselves.

Possibly, there could be a way to use the split tubing and clamp (hose clamp, s.s. tie wire?) or maybe bolt it in place.
 
James Freyr
steward
Posts: 4837
Location: West Tennessee
2440
cattle cat purity fungi trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
About this cow... This is Maribel, and she is the flightiest of the group and can get worked up about things. She's a belly whacker, meaning she will throw her head into another cows belly lifting their hind legs off the ground and tossing the back half of that cow aside. This made me nervous when the others were pregnant; I've read stories of this causing miscarriages. She has an attitude and is the bossiest of the group. The others are more relaxed and calm. Maribel didn't carry a calf full term, and birthed a 24lb premature heifer calf which we had to put down. We are not rebreeding this cow, the risk of another premie is too high, and in August I scheduled a date to take her to the processor. Maribel is destined for the freezer, and her processing date is two weeks from now. It strikes me as almost uncanny (but maybe it shouldn't surprise me) that this happened to her, and not any of the others in the group, and it happened to her right before her departure from the farm anyway. I don't want anything bad, tragic or painful to befall any of my animals on this farm and strive for animal welfare, and while having said this, I am grateful that this didn't happen to another of the breeding stock, or the bull.

All in all, with her temperament and her premature calf and now this, I think it's like the universe is telling me to not keep or breed this cow.

 
James Freyr
steward
Posts: 4837
Location: West Tennessee
2440
cattle cat purity fungi trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

thomas rubino wrote:
Possibly, there could be a way to use the split tubing and clamp (hose clamp, s.s. tie wire?) or maybe bolt it in place.



Yes that's the idea I have, to use some split wire loom and use wire ties to hold it in place, completely wrapping the flat parts.


source
 
Posts: 75
12
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I quit using hay rings for the following reasons:

1. If you have several cows, hay rings can cause competition to access food. Cattle have a pecking order. More dominant cows will force less dominant ones out of the way. There always seems to be skirmishes around hay rings.

2. Hay rings lead to a lot of wasted hay. In the photo you sent, I noticed all the hay that has been pulled off the bale and dropped on the ground. Cattle will grab and pull hay off the bale. In doing so, much of what they pull drops to the ground. The hay that falls to the ground around the ring gets trampled, manured on and urinated on, not eaten.

3. In my previous use of hay rings I have seen individual cows with their head and front feet inside the ring as they search for the best morsels within the round bale. As the bale is eaten down, I have even seen calves standing inside the ring eating on what’s left of the bale. While there, they deposit urine and manure fouling the hay. In these situations, attempting to exit the hay ring can lead to injury.

Instead of using hay rings, I have gone to rolling out round bales. Depending on the number of cows you have, you can roll out all or a portion of the bale. This has several advantages:

1. Everyone gets to eat all at once instead of having the typical hay ring scuffles.

2. There is actually less waste and no chance of injury.

3. Manure and urine is spread out rather than accumulating around the hay ring.

4. I roll out the round bale in areas of pasture that have the weakest grass. Grass seeds within the bale are deposited. The hay that isn’t eaten provides ground cover. The manure and urine spread around the area provides nutrients.

Round bales can be rolled out by hand or pushed with forks on a front end loader. I saw one guy use the grill guard on his truck to push and unroll a round bale. You can buy manufactured round bale unrollers or if you are handy with a welder, make one yourself. A search of the internet yields all kinds of info.
 
James Freyr
steward
Posts: 4837
Location: West Tennessee
2440
cattle cat purity fungi trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I made my modification today with some 3.5" split wire loom held together with zip ties. After seven days, the cows have managed to wear through some of the duct tape revealing sharp steel underneath. I was surprised they duct tape didn't last longer. I feel pretty good about the wire loom, and I reckon only time will tell how long it lasts, either from it wearing through as a result of the cows rubbing on it, or sunlight making it brittle and it falls apart. The wire loom and zip ties are UV stabilized, so I hope it will last at least a few years.

Unknown-6.jpeg
duct tape
duct tape
Unknown-7.jpeg
split wire loom
split wire loom
gift
 
Rocket Mass Heater podcast gob
will be released to subscribers in: 04 : 05 : 11
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic