No Till Grains?

My husband and I just watched the Back to Eden film and were contemplating whether grains (wheat, oats, etc) could be grown no till in quantities great enough to feed a family and livestock. Plowing certainly makes it easier to plant in the beginning, but could no till be done successfully long-term without massive amounts of time/ labor/ inputs? We're looking at calories here as well as quality of life. We don't want to be subsistence farmers or to be so involved in growing things to eat that we have no time for other interests (and we have many).

Take a look at "Kernza". I'm not sure about how it would grow in your climate. Thynopirium intermedium is what Rodale started out with in the development of "Kernza" Some of the perennial ryes I think are for a bit colder climate. I like Great Basin Seeds they might have a suggestion for your zone .

Search for Marc Bonfils for no-plow wheat production.

Winter rye grows feral in the wildlands here. It takes care of itself with no weeding, and no irrigation. No other grain grows consistently in the wildlands in my ecosystem.

I can harvest and clean enough grain in an hour to feed myself for a week. I love subsistence farming. Makes my heart sing.

Robert Ray wrote:Take a look at "Kernza". I'm not sure about how it would grow in your climate. Thynopirium intermedium is what Rodale started out with in the development of "Kernza" Some of the perennial ryes I think are for a bit colder climate. I like Great Basin Seeds they might have a suggestion for your zone .

Kernza would probably grow here, but we're not quite to the level of growing 20 acres which it looks like is the minimum amount they'll sell for planting. I think my husband figured 5 acres to be enough for our personal use with the heirloom wheat we planted this year (can't remember the variety off the top of my head. We planted 1/3 acre and will save the seed to plant next year.) That being said, kernza yields are lower than standard wheat so we'd have to plant more. Might be worth it if we didn't have to mess with plowing, disking, and planting.

Christopher Weeks wrote:Search for Marc Bonfils for no-plow wheat production.

My husband has been looking at that one, possibly planting ladino clover on the field with the wheat (he may have already done that, but I'm not sure), but we're questioning long-term yields with the Bonfils method.  Another question is how labor intensive is it? If we can't do it in the same amount of time with similar yields to the traditional plowing and sowing, then it may be unrealistic for our sustainability goals. We're also looking at rocky, clay soil so may need to do other amendments for satisfactory results. That's why Back to Eden is appealing to me right now, though obtaining enough organic matter to cover 5 acres 4-6 inches deep might be problematic... 🤔

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Winter rye grows feral in the wildlands here. It takes care of itself with no weeding, and no irrigation. No other grain grows consistently in the wildlands in my ecosystem.

I can harvest and clean enough grain in an hour to feed myself for a week. I love subsistence farming. Makes my heart sing.

I wonder what the yield per acre is, how satisfactorily it can be harvested with a combine, and whether additional processing steps are required before it's ready to turn into the final product (ground, rolled, crimped, etc)? I know many permies enjoy subsistence farming which is why I said we're not very interested in it since the farming methods may well differ!

I'm not sure how close "Kernza" is to thyropinium intermedium but that is what Rodale started with and it is available in small quantities. Landrace it, see what you get.

Joseph, could you describe your technique for harvesting and threshing it out?  Thanks.

Do you mean no till or perennial grains?  No till is easy but needs some expensive toys.  The neighbors no till drill covers 24 feet in a pass.

In my estimation, no-till organic grain harvests cannot be done with a combine. Because the high percentage of green weeds in the field hampers the proper functioning of combines, which require completely dry crops.

I harvest by hand, with secateurs, sickle, or knife.

Throw seed heads onto a tarp.

Thresh by stamping with feet, or beating with a stick.

Screen.

Winnow.

Same technique which built civilization.

I recently purchased a Yanmar Rice Binder, I plan to use it on my own small grain crops and to harvest wild Rye next season, if you would like to use it let me know.  We could quickly bind a lot of rye.  I also plan to build an axial flow thresher this winter, to go along with it.  I am looking for ancient type wheat or Triticale or Rye seed to plant and I saw your name come up in several places, do you have anything for sale locally?  Otherwise I'll just order.  Thanks.  

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:In my estimation, no-till organic grain harvests cannot be done with a combine. Because the high percentage of green weeds in the field hampers the proper functioning of combines, which require completely dry crops.

I harvest by hand, with secateurs, sickle, or knife.

Throw seed heads onto a tarp.

Thresh by stamping with feet, or beating with a stick.

Screen.

Winnow.

Same technique which built civilization.

Actually it is a simple matter to go backwards in technology to slightly riskier methods.  Growing up we swathed the grain and let it dry to get rid of the green and then combined it.   The combine had a special pickup head for lifting the swaths instead of a cutting head.  Because the grain is down for longer the risk is higher.  But it would still be safer and faster than hand harvesting.

I do shallow tillage with tractor + springtooth harrow then throw seeds by hand and then do two runs with spike harrow to cover the seeds. Winter rye and winter wheat. In 2022 I had only 270 mm of rain and the grains could not develop. This year, I had 1000 mm and it was too much for wheat, but the rye developed perfectly. Unfortunately it was ready in June when it became too hot to harvest it with scythe and in June I was helping my mason and was completely exhausted by the end of the day. There was three times more weeds than grain, because all vegetation grows in winter time here - as opposite to places where winter grains are grown and winter is the dormancy period. I decided to leave them in the field, seeds already dropped to the ground. My sheep will go there soon and will have nutritious mix of plants for the rest of the year.

I like to harrow the (fall sown) grains just as the annual weeds start to germinate. That kills many of the annual weeds without harming (much of) the grain.

Saw the trademarked name "Kernza", and the latin name “Thinopyrum intermedium”, didn’t see anyone mention the common name
“intermediate wheatgrass”
More info on all of that here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinopyrum_intermedium

I would look at the techniques in “One Straw Revolution”. Annual grains planted with seed balls in rotation. Obviously adapted to his climate and terrain, but I don’t see why such a system can’t be tweaked for other areas.

As an experiment, we penned our three little pigs in one of the old apple fields with some electric netting. They rooted out all the grass and most of the weeds in a couple of weeks, so we threw down some buckwheat, which is even now coming up gangbusters.

Hardest part was to stick the electric fence in and shift those flimsy poles around every couple of weeks. We're going to move the pigs out to the back field soon -- first we mowed all the goldenrod down; they don't seem to like it much.

Some sort of rotation with the goats and chickens would seem to be warranted (the goats also seem [sadly] not fond of goldenrod)

More experiments...

R Summer, you can only use just so much goldenrod for medicine, right?! I use only about .05 of the stuff growing on our land. I love the Back to Eden concept and had a standing order with chipdrop for years with no success at all. Then my husband was driving through the town near us and saw a tree service working by the roadside. He stopping and chatted with them and they had need of somewhere to dump chips and hardwood trees locally. Now we have 2 mountains on our place, one of chips and another of the most beautiful firewood! Don’t give up, it took several years to find what we wanted.

I might be to blame, but I haven't gotten no till to work yet for my Summer or Fall planted grains. I have moved my grain trials around to lots of different places so the soil is rough and has a big weed bank, but I'm really a bread baker and not a farmer. Once I have done an initial BCS rotary plowing the first year, in successive years I have good luck mowing a field (weeds/cover crop) and doing some relatively shallow horizontal tillage with a BCS and then jab seeding it with a Chinese style hand machine. This Summer my daughter and I marked the corn planted rows and then planted cowpeas in between. I really like the result, but maybe planted the cowpeas too thick as they have in many cases climbed and pulled down my Lofthouse Flour Corn stalks. I still want to be able to just harvest by hand and then scythe everything down and jab seed through all the vegetative matter, but I haven't gotten the timing/grain varieties/weed pressure right yet.
--Abraham, Piedmont of NC, https://boxturtlebakery.com/

Winter small grains, ie hard red wheat, winter barley, etc planted in the stubble of summer legumes works great. (green beans into barley last half of August, four peas into hard, red winter, wheat early October.)

The the undisturbed legume roots are a great starter fertilizer, and with a half rate of some good organic soil amendment, like composted poultry manure pellets applied in January or February a great crop can be expected as long as you have the nine weeks of vernalization.

The heirloom and ancient grains mentioned here are not exactly a good choice for a small plot. Extremely low yield and extra hard to keep from being weedy. At least 2 bushels if not 2.5 to the acre deed rate has worked well for me.

The time of planting in your area is quite critical. Yield is directly correlated to the amount of precipitation during the boot stage.(when the crown is expanding, outward)

I only do winter small green simply because of weed suppression. Very hard to keep clean using spring planted varieties. It’s one of the few chances a non-chemical grower has too make a withdrawal from the seed bank in the soil. Many weeds germinate underneath but only achieve two or 3 inches height and do not go to seed. Also, straw is quite valuable for bedding or mulch if not needed, the absolute perfect addition to any soil. Pure carbon, and the best shape possible. Allowing wicking. Retaining soil moisture when dry and releasing it when wet.