Lacto Bacillus - growing it, using it on a farm

Hi folks,

Here is an interesting video on growing lacto bacillus naturally and its uses on a farm. Korean farmers have been doing this for sometime. Bryan McGrath thank you.

That's really cool. I have my first batch going! (His Indigenous MicroOrganism (IMO) videos are interesting too, the IMO adds fungi to the mix)

I had ran across a product called mycogrow, by the fungiperfecti company. It is basically the different forms of the fungi and bacteria in it just like the IMO. It really make sense and I wanted to do something similar and figured there must be a way to do it with my local fungi/bacteria. Instead of shipping something in.
I hadn't gotten around to looking for something similar to the mycogrow...

Good timing, thanks for posting this.
I love science
-Ryan

Thanks Shazi, I will look into this later.

Ryan, I stumbled upon Bryan's youtube site quite by accident and have since been able to view many more of his very informative video's. Its certainly piqued my interest and I'm going to spend many more hours researching this technique to learn more. ( I love science too and feel incredibly excited each day when I am able to learn a little something about the interconnectedness of the world of creation ).

I liked the fact that lacto bacillus can effectively be used to reduce bad/strong odors in chicken coops, pig sty's and such.

I've been using Mother vinegar for years now to provide LB to my livestock and folks on BYC are now getting into fermenting their livestock feeds to provide the same. There's nothing new under the sun and using fermented feeds is one of these things that has been used for hundreds of years.

Here are a few links to information about providing LB~for FREE~to your livestock to get the health benefits that folks are trying to market now.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/632840/prevention-of-coccidiosis-and-other-poultry-diseases-in-chicks-acv

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds

Wow I've never heard of this. I started my first kombucha batch a few weeks ago and I've recently become very interested in fermentation. This sounds like something I want to try but I don't know where to put it haha!

I learned to do this frOm a friend a few years ago, I like to use it in the animal areas as well as in the propagation greenhouse.

Jay Green wrote:I've been using Mother vinegar for years now to provide LB to my livestock

I give vinegar to my critters, too. I believe that the organisms involved there are mostly Acetobacter and possibly other acetic acid bacteria, but not lactic acid bacteria. doesn't mean it isn't useful, just a different group of bacteria than the Lactobacillus and other lactic acid bacteria the video is concerned with.

very interesting, i wonder if actual cheese sorum is also a direct replacement for that brewed stuff...

John Ram wrote:very interesting, i wonder if actual cheese sorum is also a direct replacement for that brewed stuff...

if the cheese in question has a bacterial culture, the whey should have plenty of lactic acid bacteria in it. any of the various yogurt-like foods from around the world, sour cream, crème fraîche, et cetera, should all work as long as the haven't been pasteurized after being cultured.

sauerkraut juice (or any lacto-fermented food), could work, too. as long as it's being diluted so much, I would guess the salt shouldn't be an issue.

a little update from me:

I made a batch: http://slowdownfarm.com/post/44685724943/growing-lacto-bacillus It looks like lemonade and smells like vinegar cheese.

I wanted to test something that was mentioned as one of the benefits of Lacto Bacillus.
Removing stink from compost.

So... I'd saved some food scraps in a sealed container for a few weeks. It was getting quite ripe when I'd open it to add stuff to it. (stink up the kitchen when opened kind of ripe)
I took about an ounce of the solution, just after my test of watering the plants about 5 days ago, and squirted it over the stuff in my food scrap container. Well... I just took a big sniff of it; seriously, a big sniff with my nose about an inch from the container; and It has no smell.
I'm kind of amazed.
I believe this claim is verified.

Considering dunking my dog in it. (not really... just sayin' he is stinky)


-Ryan

I'd like to put the final dilution into a spray bottle and set it next to the humanure toilet:
human contribution, TP, spray, sawdust. (in that order)
The sawdust will dry it out but the bacteria should last until the bucket is empty and maybe jump start decomp.

Got mine started this week. Going to put it to use with the cat boxes. Could you incorporate this into the cat food some how?

Nicholas Green wrote:I'd like to put the final dilution into a spray bottle and set it next to the humanure toilet:
human contribution, TP, spray, sawdust. (in that order)
The sawdust will dry it out but the bacteria should last until the bucket is empty and maybe jump start decomp.

Nicholas - If you soaked your sawdust with some of the serum (hopefully, you are, at least, refrigerating (approx 1 yr. storage) it or better, if you would stabilize with a sugar for shelf storing (up to 3 yrs. shelf store) and let the sawdust dry thouroghly, you'd have made Bokashi Bran (any, ideally, shredded/chopped dry carbon can work). It would shelf store like this dried for about a year, Then, when you would put it to use, it would activate itself after you sprinkled a small handful over the surface.

john - You can spray the LAB over your cat boxes, you can spray over their food and/or mix some LAB into the food, you can feed your cats the 'cheese curd' that you get in the LAB making process.

That's a great video, thanks for posting! I'm part way through making a batch, I've added the rice water to the milk and its been sitting for about 2 days, is it supposed to smell bad? I was expecting it to smell like gone off milk but it smells different, can't quite describe it, but its strong. I was going to leave it another day or so until the cheese part has firmed up a bit more, maybe the smell will change?

Fiona - Are you wanting to really make the LAB or just running thru the steps? There is an odor, but not like spoiled milk, because the milk hasn't spoiled, but changed. Do you see bubbles forming on the surface and a separation on the edges? Usually, we will let the bacteria incubate longer than 2 or 3 days, but again that's why I asked about your result desired. The 'curd/cheese' will thicken and the serum will be a slightly yellowish/clear liquid as the milk continues to breakdown and feed the developing LAB. How warm is the culture resting, how much movement is going on around it or is it totally isolated from family/home activity?

Thanks ollie, i'm hoping to make LAB, was hoping to try it as a cheaper alternative to bought in bokashi bran and also to add a little to my chickens water. It looks like its changed overnight, there's more liquid which seems clearer and the solid curdy bit seems more solid. The top is looking a bit bubbly and it's separated from the side of the container. It's sitting in the kitchen which does suffer from temperature fluctuations and its probably been disturbed a couple of times. I did have it in the utility room but had to shift it as we had builders in repairing a collapsed sewer in the garden, and the doors were open for most of the day.

How long is it typically left once its been added to the milk?

Cheers,

Fiona

Fiona - Ok, so now I know your direction and the stage you're at right now...I've copied off some of my notes for you and anyone else that is considering this, see following...

Making your DIY EM Rice Water-Milk Inoculants
Lacto-bacteria are everywhere and covers everything. You can most easily recognize it by the white film-like you find on grapes, cabbage, plums, etc.

To make up a culture of Lacto Acid Bacteria (LAB) take 1 part of rice (any kind of rice) and add to 2-4 parts (de-chlorinated) water, shake well, doing so you are washing the rice, strain and pour off the now, cloudy water and use the rice for whatever you’d like.

Put rice rinse water into a jar; fill to one-half to two-thirds full, which will give you about 30 – 50% headspace or airspace. You want a lot of aeration and circulation in your jar, so that the airborne bacteria can enter and easily populate your rice rinse water solution. Cover the top of your jar with some cheesecloth or filter material and secure with a jar ring or rubber band. You will want to leave your jar in a place that will be undisturbed and a stable/warm space for about 2-5 days. Keep out of the sunlight, the ultraviolet rays can destroy your culture.

During the 2-5 days, you will see the rice water begin to separate, and show a top layer of fermentation, a middle, yellowish-layer which is the lacto bacteria developing and sediment on the bottom which is rice bran that had fallen off the rice. There will also be a slight, sour smell. All this is normal and what you want to be seeing/noticing.

Next, you will want to strain and separate the lacto-bacteria culture. It’s not actually necessary to strain and separate the culture, it just looks better, you can just mix it and the milk together. But, be sure you keep with the 10:1 ratio, which is very important. So, in the 10:1 ratio, or 10 parts milk to 1 part of the lacto-bacteria (you can use any form of milk), put this second culture mixture into a bowl or pail that is large enough, leaving again some air-space, loosely covered from dust/dirt, but able to breathe, in a undisturbed, warm-ish space, for about 7-14 days, again it will depend upon the temperature how fast it will make the second stage ferment.

You are coming up to this point, maybe your batch has fermented faster, due to a higher incubation temperature, and that's Ok. As you experiment with this you'll just know by looking and smell, so adjust accordingly and you can't do much wrong...
After about 7 days, you will see a thick, yellowish-layer forming, this is the curd or ‘cheese’ made from the bacteria and milk fermenting. This can be skimmed off and fed to your livestock, fowl, compost, BSF bin, etc., they will love it. (Not proven – But, it might be something to try yourself for immunity building and nutrition enhancement.)

Now, the yellowish-liquid is what you’ve been working for, it is the lacto-bacteria serum. This can be kept in an air-tight container in the refrigerator for up to 3 years, as it is. It is best used within a year to be the freshest. You will want to strain out all the curd and save just the liquid serum. If any large particles of 'curd' are left behind you will get a secondary fermentation, if you had sugar/molasses to stabilize for shelf storage. So, now to stabilize this serum so that you don’t require refrigeration, you must add an equal part or 1:1 ratio of molasses or brown sugar and water (simple syrup 1:1 ratio. Mix together it thoroughly; warming the molasses helps it to blend. By doing this, the lacto bacillus serum is stabilized and can be stored at room temperature for up to 3 years. The molasses or brown sugar & water is the sugar source that feeds and stabilizes the serum so that it is ready and activated when you want to use it.

Instructions for Use:
If you are ready to use your LAB serum you will dilute the pure or stabilized Lacto- Bacillus Serum with non-chlorinated water at a 20:1 ratio (Water:Lacto). This diluted solution stores at room temperature/non-refrigerated, only for 6 months.

The 20:1 ratio solution is further diluted to 1 tablespoon to 1 liter or 4 tablespoons/gallon of non-chlorinated water used as a foliar spray (leaf-feeding), soil or given to animals. You can drench the soil to rebuild and sterilize it from unwanted, harmful pathogens; it cleans and breaks down to release nutrients. The stabilized lacto- bacillus serum attracts other beneficial organisms to help enrich the soil. If your compost bin is out of balance, it will restore and correct.

Giving fermented LAB to any animal or fowl in their food/drinking water helps their digestion, many times over, and will re-populate the good bacteria necessary. As a result our livestock will get more nutrients out of what they eat, eat less, get better growth and be healthier. This lacto-bacterium is good at deodorizing and breaking down organic materials, so it’s a very good ‘tool’ for the homesteader/gardener.

Feed 1-2 tablespoons/gallon for your chicken or animals water sources. Livestock that could only absorb 65% of their food nutrients can now obtain as much as 85% from the same foodstuffs. As they are getting more nutrition, you can feed them less, without loss. Changing from quantity focused, to quality. You can spray the bedding or deep litter of your livestock/fowl to control odor, break down the animal ammonia and pathogens. Just by this, your animals will not become sick.

You can also use this for Aquaponics and keep the fish healthy and their water clean. Again, it breaks the ammonia down and inhibits pathogens that would be attracted to the ammonia.

For septic systems, you can pour 1-2 cups of the 20:1 ratio solution to clear, recharge and rejuvenate the septic tank and drain field.

Oh wow, cheers ollie! That's some comprehensive notes sounds like I need to wait a few more days, but it's well on its whey.

Ollie, if you chose to NOT stabilize the LAB with molasses, but simply store it in the fridge, wouldn't your next dilution with water be of a different ratio? After all, you have half the volume of liquid.

Jane Reed wrote:Ollie, if you chose to NOT stabilize the LAB with molasses, but simply store it in the fridge, wouldn't your next dilution with water be of a different ratio? After all, you have half the volume of liquid.

Jane - I'm not exactly sure what you are asking...? The way, I've learned this is as I've said, the molasses/simple syrup is for helping the LAB shelf-store, that's all, it's optional to use. If you do, it give you storage without requiring any climate control. I leave my LAB full-strength and just make up what I need and that I know I'm going to use and not have to store a larger volume somewhere. When you want to use your LAB, whether raw or stablilized, you'd want to dilute it down to a safer concentration of 20:1 or 20 parts water to 1 part LAB, then further to 4:1 or 4 tablespoons to 1 gallon of water. This concentration can be used for feeding your plants, animals, deodorizing, etc. I've made many different recipes for a variety of uses with these natural ingredients, some are at 500 or 1000:1, others are 10 or 20:1. You could make yours differently, I don't know what result you'd get, could be better or worse...

Ollie, I understand perfectly that your finished, concentrated serum of LAB must be diluted to be used in the gardenor to feed animals. I understand that the dilution ration of the stabilized LAB is 20 to 1. What I don't understand is why the same dilution ratio applies to both stabilized and unstabilized serum, when the stabilized has been diluted by adding equal parts of molasses.

If, for final use, I add 4 tablespoons of stabilized serum to a gallon of water, the amount of serum is half of what I would have in a gallon of water if, instead, I added 4 tablespoons of unstabilized serum, because the 4 tablespoons of stabilized serum is actually 2 TBS of serum and 2 TBS. of molasses. I will accept if the difference makes no difference. But since it seemed to me that there WAS a difference, I had to ask.

Jane Reed wrote:Ollie, I understand perfectly that your finished, concentrated serum of LAB must be diluted to be used in the gardenor to feed animals. I understand that the dilution ration of the stabilized LAB is 20 to 1. What I don't understand is why the same dilution ratio applies to both stabilized and unstabilized serum, when the stabilized has been diluted by adding equal parts of molasses.

If, for final use, I add 4 tablespoons of stabilized serum to a gallon of water, the amount of serum is half of what I would have in a gallon of water if, instead, I added 4 tablespoons of unstabilized serum, because the 4 tablespoons of stabilized serum is actually 2 TBS of serum and 2 TBS. of molasses. I will accept if the difference makes no difference. But since it seemed to me that there WAS a difference, I had to ask.

Good morning, Jane, I'm sorry for the delay in getting back to you. You are correct that the molasses Stabilized LAB is already diluted; however, apparently this makes very little difference. Essentially you are looking at or close to a 1000:1 dilution (1st 20:1, then 1:34 or 4:128 ). This stuff is so strong that it needs to be this diluted. If you've used molasses, you notice it's dark color in the stabilized state, but after you've made all the dilutions, it's now almost completely clear, but you'll see that it really works... Is there anything else I can answer for you...?

I had a question about making bokashi at home. Is the serum gathered from making LAB enough for use as the inoculating the bran, or other medium for making bokashi? I saw on a different video of a guy saying that LAB was just one of three microbial cultures that's needed for making bokashi. Looking for some clarification. Thanks.

Kevin - As far as my experience has taken me, I have made Bokashi with the LAB AND molasses or another sugar compound, tho' not used honey. Honey, may work, as I know of fermentation recipes that have used honey, but I have not yet.

Bryan McGrath, maybe this is who you are referring to, over at Prokashi.com also tells in his videos of incorporating the forest bacteria and/or forest fungi, I think, this is a great idea and addition to making your Bokashi, but it is not a requirement, just an enchancement. Also, I think, people should be taking their finished Bokashi and use as he does in his Bokashi Soil Generator idea.

Shazi Munje wrote:Hi folks,

Here is an interesting video on growing lacto bacillus naturally and its uses on a farm. Korean farmers have been doing this for sometime. Bryan McGrath thank you.

When I tried to watch the video, it comes up as private.

I had the same problem.

Most of Bryan's youtube videos have been removed from youtube.com.
I found them very educational and valuable knowledge.
I'm wondering whats up with that.
Ben

@Puddlemaker, I don't know if you're still here but I just want to ask this. If I have only powder milk to use, at what ratio will I add it to the rice wash water?

If we add milk to the rice water to isolate the LAB, can we isolate any other useful bacteria/substances by adding something else instead?

And another bunch of questions: is there any bad or unsuitable application of LAB?

I've read that if ingested after a meal, it can ease or prevent the food coma phenomenon, helping to digest food but my wife is skeptical, saying that the LAB would not survive passing through the stomach.

Would there be any harm or benefit to using LAB as a nasal shower or in an enema? What about as a skin treatment, like a lotion or makeup remover?

What if you use higher concentrations than 1 Tsp/gallon of water? Is that harmful or wasteful or more effective?

I'm still hoping that someone with more knowledge and experience than me will answer some of my questions.

In the meantime, here's my first attempt and another question:

Do these seem/look right to you?

An hour ago this still looked like milk.

Hey Chad. Just another experimenter here. I collected my rice water for my first stage fermentation six days ago. Have you read anything about using spoiled low-fat milk? It hasn't curdled yet, nothing is growing in/on it, but it has definitely soured.

-CK

Hey Chris,

I haven't read anything specifically about using spoiled milk. Going by feeling, I'd say it's probably fine.

I'm totally new to this but it seems that what is sometimes called LAB Serum is essentially nothing more than whey. Are these terms 1:1 interchangeable? No idea.

What I'd also like to know is, is this a batch process, as in, make a batch, use it up, and make a new one, OR, can I keep it going by adding fresh milk to the separated curds and whey?

I made a lot of rice water, but will I need to keep it to make the next batch? Or will the rice water go bad and I need to make it fresh every time? Or do I not need the rice water at all at this point?

Nice to get a response, if "only" from a fellow experimenter with as little experience as myself.

From what I gather, the rice water is essentially used as a growth medium for environmental bacteria. So the first stage gets us higher levels of all environmental bacteria that can live off the starchy rice water.

The addition of the milk provides a feast to only the lactobacillus strains, helping them to outcompete any rivals.

I don't think the whey is the LAB serum being referred to.  I believe we are looking for a thicker, yellowish liquid distinguishable from both the curd and the whey.

Can't wait for the first batch. I am going to use half of it to propagate more, and the other half on my houseplants and compost.

-CK

Hi Chris,

cool shoutout to you in the dailyish today.

How's your progress?  

Until now, I've made about 9 liters of whey (out of about 10 liters of milk plus one liter of rice water), which, the more I read, the more I'm convinced IS the serum we're trying to make.  I learned that butter is what's left when whey is mechanically separated out, and cheese is what's left when whey is biologically separated out.  I used my curd like in a video I saw here on Permies: Pressed it, put it in a pot on the stove and cooked it on low heat, stirring frequently until nearly all the remaining whey had cooked itself out and the curd had further coagulated into cheese. Salted for preservation and taste, and it was a truly fascinating thing to discover. Not 100% my preferred flavor, so further experimentation is necessary, but for now, my wife wants me to move on from this one.

I still haven't stabilized the whey with sugar, so for now, it sits in my fridge.  I have added it pure to several of my houseplants, and my feeling is, the leaves look darker, but I have no frame of reference outside of my memory of how they looked before.

I'm wondering about the odor-absorbing/odor eating aspect, because all I smell is the whey, which is not odorless. I guess to observe the effect, I need to try it on something truly putrid.

I've also tried consuming it myself, but it messes with my head a bit. Sorta like the time I ate my first homestead egg, there is somehow an aversion to non-storebought food, and I think most people who aren't permies live comfortably with a disconnect between their food and its source.  It's just going to take some time for me to warm up to the idea, especially for milk products.

That said, I tried mixing it into water, but could still taste it, almost like a very thin bread dough, it was like a flour-flavored water, but it was whey, not flour.  

Then I tried mixing it into a lemonade product and it tasted decent.  Later I tried mixing it into another fruit juice product and letting it sit for 12 hours to start fermenting the juice and activating it biologically, but then it tasted again like juice-flavored whey, which wasn't very appetizing, and also, the bottom of my glass was filled with red flakes of some sort, which made it even more unappetizing.