Proper way to plant Siberian Peashrub, Caragana arborescens seeds

Hi all,

I acquired Siberian Peashrub seeds and would like to make sure I did it right. I soaked the seeds in water for 30 hours and then placed it on top of potting soil which I mixed with a bit of sand. I then covered the seeds with thin layer of sand. Im watering from underneath. The pot is placed into a dish filled with water so the soil can such it as much it needs. The pot is inddor beside a window. Temp in that room is around 12 degress Celsius.

I started keeping bees in top bar hives and would love to give them this nectar giving shrub.

Any suggestions? If so far is done correctly how do I proceed if it starts growing?

Thank you

Hi,

try increase temp a little if you can, tho not entirely necessary

when seedlings are about 2cm tall prick them out into 9cm pots and return to window sill for a few weeks
as they get bigger and the weather gets warmer (Not too familiar with Sweden )
they can be hardened off over the space of about 2 weeks (they are quite slow to lignify and can flop over ) , and keep increasing pot size when needed !!!
they can be left out until the first frost but give them some protection at least over their first winter, plant out in second spring when around 2 foot tall

good luck i really love these trees

I have several siberian pea plants grown from seed.

Well, very few of them germinated when I just sown them at room temperature.

Much better to do this: sown the seeds in pots outside, in freezing weather, and let it be for about 1 month or even 2 months. Because these seeds in nature need cold stratification.

Then bring inside, and they will germinate within a month (if the seed is rather fresh - if seeds from one supplier do not work, try buying from another one - they might be fresher and much easier to germinate).

I also tried leaving them inside the fridge (in a humid towel) but this did not work.

You do well in mixing nice loamy soil with sand, the siberian pea likes that, but apparently it is not very picky with it. A sandy mix helps preventing that some seedlings might rot when young (although this does not seem to be a big problem with the siberian pea). The seedlings really do not need much watering. The seeds should be about 5-10mm deep.

This is a species from a continental climate with cold winters. So keep that in mind too.

I only havea few young seedlings, with a few pair of leaves. I have let them outdoors this winter with some snow on them and minor frosts and seems to not suffer anything at all. But I always bring them inside when the freezing becomes very hard, as I do not want to risk my young seedlings. They seem to enjoy catching a cold period as a break from being inside a greenhouse all the time.

Dusko Bojic wrote:Hi all,

I acquired Siberian Peashrub seeds and would like to make sure I did it right. I soaked the seeds in water for 30 hours and then placed it on top of potting soil which I mixed with a bit of sand. I then covered the seeds with thin layer of sand. Im watering from underneath. The pot is placed into a dish filled with water so the soil can such it as much it needs. The pot is inddor beside a window. Temp in that room is around 12 degress Celsius.

I started keeping bees in top bar hives and would love to give them this nectar giving shrub.

Any suggestions? If so far is done correctly how do I proceed if it starts growing?

Thank you

Siberian Pea Shrubs are from a very cold region (Siberia). Pre-chilling/freezing may be required prior to planting, for best results.

Here are the stats from one of the premier seed sources in the USA:

It's the second year I'm growing this plant from seeds, with a hope to grow enough for planting a dense hedge. Seeds planted directly in a soil outdoors did not give a single plant (sandy, dry soil - since I have plenty of seeds I could afford such experiment). Seeds planted indoors in peat, pots covered with transparent plastic cups, gave 95% of success. Avoid too much moisture for young seedlings, I have lost some of them due to rotting. Last year's seedlings have done well till autumn, we will see how they will survive winter (they are still under the snow now).

Thank you all for replying.

Im a bit confused one of you say warmed them up other say put them outin frozen weather

Which one should I do? Im keeping them now in a room that is around 12-15 degrees Celsius. I can place them in the room which is around 22 degrees if that will help.

I planted the seeds March 1st (after soaking them in warm water), the same day I planted the Black Locust seeds (which I collected this winter in February (lots of stratification) and they are starting to germinate.

Caragana seeds do not require stratification, they can be sown fresh, just after they have been collected. In my case, I was soaking dry seeds from last year for 12 hours in cold water, then I have placed them in peat, very shallow (peat cover equal to seed diameter). Pots were covered to keep moisture. Seedlings started to show up after approximately 10 days, last ones after over 2 weeks so I guess patience is a key here

Starting the soak with hot water(near boiling) 24 hours prior to sowing has worked well for me. Ambient temps need to be on the warmer end otherwise sprouting and growth will be slow.
Has anyone else noticed mushrooms growing with their peashrub seedlings? I have had them popup with every peashrub seedling I have planted.

Update;

The seeds planted indoors didnt sprout so I planted the rest of seeds I had into a cold frame outside 2-3 weeks ago without stratification but I did soak them in warm water (room temperature) and they started sprouting
I do have fleece over the cold frame to protect the seedling from sun. My Black Locust is also sprouting

Some seeds of carragana seem to sprout without cold treatment, some seem to require cold treatment and then germinate well. Might have to do with different freshness or the supplier.

Anyways I now have only a few seedlings of peashrub, because I only start them last year.

I overwinter them indoors, but I exposed some to snow and mild frost and it was no problem for the 5cm small seedlings.

They are shocked into dormancy and then are slow to break dormancy into new growth. I guess the best is to have them, after 1st year, outdoors and go through the natural cold during winter for dormancy.

BIG question is: has anyone tried to use the seeds as food? Because that's the reason that i grow them: as a perennial pulse for a cold climate.

Much better to do this: sown the seeds in pots outside, in freezing weather, and let it be for about 1 month or even 2 months. Because these seeds in nature need cold stratification.

This is how I so it. It's been easy. Mine are blooming now and the bees and bumble are dancing all over them. You could probably sow them in flats. or even in a protected area in the ground (so the mice, squirrels dont eat them or the tasty sprouts.)

Kathy J.

P.S. If you have seeds you want to germinate now, put them in a couple layers of moist paper towels in the fridge, in a Ziplock, and wait a month? Rinse them first, but even when I have gotten mold on some of my big seeds in the fridge, they germinate anyway.

Kathy J.

I didn't read the post but:
Don't plant seeds prune hard and take suckers from the base. Best way easy and big plant right away.

Anyone tried sowing caragana in winter directly into grass? It would probably get outcompeted in a minute once spring starts... Or not?

Pfaf says that caragana seeds are edible. I planted them partly for that reason.

Well, I ate them (once) and didn't die, so they are probably not immediately poisonous. On the other hand, one never knows about the long-term effects. From what I've heard, there is no evidence that the seeds of Siberian pea shrub have been eaten in its native range, and all the claims about its edibility are essentially just quoting each other, and can be traced back to one non-scientific article in the 1870's. Many (maybe most) members of the pea family contain harmful or toxic substances, especially in the seeds, so there is probably some cause for caution. Also, PFAF sometimes makes potentially dangerous mistakes. For example, tufted vetch (Vicia cracca), also of the Fabaceae, is claimed to be edible with no known hazards. The seeds of tufted vetch contain canavanine, a non-proteinogenic amino acid that if consumed in quantity can induce a form of autoimmune disease. So, yeah... On the other hand, I seem to remember reading something about siberian pea shrub seeds being used for chicken feed, at least during world war 2, so if you have chickens you don't mind exposing to a plant of dubious edibility, that might be a use for it...

My  best success was birds eating the seeds and then pooping them out on fences and trees. I have so many starts growing this way. So whatever the birds are doing, it's working.

Seriously, people eat those seeds. I wouldn’t eat them raw because of possible saponin content, which is present in ordinary garden beans.

Myron Platte wrote:https://permies.com/t/45238/Siberian-Pea-Tree-aka-Caragana#1224268

Thanks Myron for mentioning the other thread. I thought the same when I read the latest comments on edibility of Caragana seeds.

Regarding the original subject of this thread about how to succeed planting Caragana from seeds, I found an interesting resource here. Which says the following regarding Caragana seeds germination:

Pregermination treatments and germination testing.
For a leguminous species, Siberian peashrub does not have a
very impermeable seedcoat. Untreated seeds will germinate
in 15 days after sowing, but the best germination (87 to 100% in 5 days)
can be obtained by soaking seeds for 24 hours in cold or hot (85 °C) water.
Successful germination has also been reported after acid scarification,
cold stratification for 2 weeks, or fall planting.
Certain pesticides,such as captan and thiram, can apparently increase
germination, possibly by inhibiting seed-borne disease.
The official testing prescription for Siberian peashrub seeds
calls for clipping or filing through the seedcoat on thecotyledon end,
soaking these seeds in water for 3 hours,then germinating them for 21 days
at alternating temperatures of 20/30 °C. Germination tests have also
been carried out in flats of sand or perlite and in Jacobsen germinators
for 14 to 60 days at the same alternating temperatures.
Germination after 25 to 41 days averaged 45 to 72% and 55 to 100% after 60 days.

Well, yeah, people eat it. Only, that doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy in the long run. Sorry if this was off topic for the thread. Here is the article that made me dubious (in lousy translation, but still): https://skogsträdgården.stjärnsund.nu/kallkritik/?lang=en

Hello!
I planted 120 seeds soaked in water for 48 hours, in seedling potting soil, under a thin layer. Only 15% succeeded, but they all died after reaching 10cm, I don't know why.
I just made another attempt with 80 seeds. After soaking, I put them in wet paper towels (not too much wet) and in a tightly closed jar. The success rate is much higher, maybe 70% after 3 days. Today some reach 10 cm (after 2 weeks since soaking) in seeding potting soil. I haven't managed to get more than 2 leaves yet. Do you know why the first ones died after a month of growth? Thank you!

I volunteered to test the edibility of Caragana on myself.

Documenting the experiment here: https://permies.com/t/162705/permaculture-projects/Testing-edibility-Caragana-Arborescens-Siberian#1275319