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Any advice? Refinishing existing building

 
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Good afternoon... pardon the long post, but I'm in a pretty desperate situation and needing advice.  I inherited 20 acres in Alabama 4 years ago.  It was all thick woods with a giant pole barn.  The barn has a lean to that spans the length of the barn (70 feet) and is 30 feet wide.  I framed in a section (40x12) to create an "apartment" for myself and my then 4 yr old son.  I had never done anything like it, so needless to say,  6 months later I tore everything but the frame and concrete pad I poured down and started over.  I found someone selling "freezer panels" for super cheap and bought all he had.  I used these for the walls and ceiling.  Vast improvement, as before I hadn't even considered insulation (I know, dumb... but at that point had NEVER even used a power tool). The panels are on 3 sides with a wood wall (various boards screwed into framing) with the pink board insulation behind it making up the 4th wall.  This got us through two years fairly comfortably. However,  without two electric heaters running constantly, it gets cold.  Luckily my parents aren't so far away and we go there when we need to.  However,  in running the outlets, switches, etc.  I have cut holes in these panels so that contributes to the decreasing insulation factor.  Fast forward to today.  My son and I have both been getting sick... cough, sneezing, watery eyes for the past few months.  When we aren't home,  it improves.  Today while cleaning his loft, I found white piles that look similar to the insulation in the freezer panels.  This was after thoroughly dusting and cleaning every surface of this house with vinegar and essential oils just a few days ago.  I saw the piles last time I cleaned, but my son does a lot of arts and crafts and various things up there so I assumed it was from him.  This time I know it isn't and it's accumulated into a decent sized pile in less than a week.  The tin siding had to come down and currently have greenhouse plastic as siding as of last week.

I think the freezer or cooler panels are making us sick.  I want to tear down those walls and put cob (which was the entire reason I wanted property to begin with) in the existing framework. I'm extremely limited on funds.  Like nearly zero dollars for this.  But... I have unlimited soil that is about 70/30 on a clay test.  It holds beautifully on a worm test.  I have unlimited trees, pallets, pine straw and some hay straw.  The roof is tin, but was shot full of holes about 15 years ago by what appears to be a .22. Above our apartment, there are a few, and I've put black thick plastic between the freezer panels and the trusses. It's September.  I have about months if I'm lucky to get better walls. Any suggestions on how I could #1-do this with cob #2- insulate for winter (rarely gets below 15 degrees Fahrenheit, but that's still cold) and finally #3- do it with materials on hand? If I built the cob over the existing frame,  could I finish the interior and exterior walls with a wash and it be a single wall? Would I need two walls with straw or perhaps old clothes or something in the space between them? I wouldn't be able to do the ceiling and walls in that time, but the walls would be the priority since I know a lot of our heat escapes during the winter as well.

I know it's a long shot, but I'm hoping for a miracle of sorts. Any advice is welcome.
 
gardener
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Hi January, welcome to Permies! We have some people who have a lot of experience with Cob, so you should get some good advice here. I see that you already know the clay content of your land, so that helps a lot.
 
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pictures?  sounds like a large building and you say you have certain unlimited materials. I know nothing about cob other than some videos ive seen and what ive read.
my first though is you say you have unlimited trees. if it were me I would start small building a space to live in with straw bales covered with cob and cut a bunch of trees for framing stuff like door and windows and to use as support bolsters much the way adobe structures have been built in the southwest for hundreds of years. ive learned that straw bale structures that are covered in cob have insulating values that are off the chart compared to that pink stuff that costs lots of money at the big box hardware store. get rid of all those panels and any other suspect materials. years ago I tried staying in an old camper home that made me sick. it was dry and insulated, no mold or anything like that. and I could swear it was the insulation and other non natural substances the thing was made from that caused the ill effects I experienced.
as far as the roof. you could get a box of short galvanized roofing nails and a big tube of 3m 5200 sealant and a little dab of sealant and put a nail in hole will plug it forever a grinder with cut off wheel or big snippers to clip the nail flush after sealant cures. until you can figure out a plan for new roof.
I fixed a lean, well not exactly fixed the lean but there is no way its going to fall down now, in my 80' long pole barn with cedar trees cut into 12' poles and a couple 6x6x12' poles. cut at 45 degrees on one end. dug holes about 8' away From each of the poles on the side that would hit the ground first if it were to fall. put rocks in the holes to about 20 inches below grade. wedged my cut poles at angle and drilled I think they are 3/4" or 7/8" holes and fastened the angled poles to to the outside poles that support the barn with some giant galvanized j bolts I found in scrap yard. . we actually cut the j off and then cut another 5 or 6" piece off and with welder made giant "T" bolts.  then filled the holes back in so the angled poles will not move.
 
January Runels
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Thank you!
 
Rocket Scientist
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I like the roofing nails as plugs to glue into the .22 holes in the roof. I would suggest to nip them all to 1/4" or so before putting them in place... much less effort to end up with non-dangerous interior.
 
Glenn Herbert
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I second the notion of enclosing the smallest area you can get away with for this winter. Plan for the future and do a comfortable layout next summer.
 
pollinator
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January, you have had a difficult time.
before you created all the holes, were you getting sick?
I ask because often older material often has no more outgassing, the holes of course may have created a new sources of outgassing.
As for the roof holes, in Australia we use an aluminium tape with a a bitumen looking adhesive, its fantastic for sealing small nail holes.
I cut it to small squares , 11/2 x 11/2 inches for a 11/2 inch wide tape and walk over the roof patching as I go, it lasts for years.
As for accomodation think about a small temporary cooking area, bathroom and sleeping area.
Later if it all works change the sleeping area to a lounge and add a better sleeping area, and a specific kitchen.
Maybe aim at something 10 ft x 15 ft with a 12 foot ceiling for a start.
You maybe able to collect olds matetials from all over if you keep and eye out.
 
January Runels
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Thank you all for the great suggestions on the holes in the roof.  I'll see what I can do to get that taken care of.  The apartment is actually 40x12 so it isn't the whole lean to.  I would just need to replace 3 walls.  

Does anyone know if one 12" thick cob wall facing south would be sufficient insulator or if I would need two with insulation in between? Or could the air space between the two be enough of an insulation? Could I use pine straw in the cob mixture or should it be straw?

Thanks, again!
 
gardener
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Hi January,
Welcome to Permies.com!

Specific to your request about the wall. Pure cob doesn't have much insulation value. Better than nothing, but its better at keeping heat out than in. However a strawbale wall covered in cob for longevity would have pretty decent insulation value.

Google says cob is about 0.22 R value per inch, while straw bales can be as high as 2.3 R value per inch. However, with natural materials you get variations and it will really depend on things like what you add the cob and how tightly the bales are packed.

Specific to the getting sick, I might blame the panels, but not quite the same way. I'm sure there may be nasty stuff in the panels themselves, but freezer panels are going to be air tight. Despite modern building practices, an air tight building is not a good thing. It can hold in the bad gasses more and increases the chance for mold to grow. Both of which can increase the chance of you getting sick. As weird as it sounds, make sure you add plenty of ventilation for your health.
 
steward and tree herder
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Hi January, Well done on your achievements to date - you're awesome!
I'd like to know more about your insulation panels before condemning them as the cause of your health issues. Do you know what they are made of? I'm suspecting expanded polystyrene (usually like little white balls stuck together) but not being based in the US I can't be sure from your description if this is the case. Had you considered vermin damage as the cause of the white stuff? I ask this because we often have mice gnawing at our insulation (bless them!).
I'm not sure cob will solve your issues this year I'm afraid. Although a great and free building material, it will take quite a bit of effort to construct (good for a kids' party perhaps !) and also time to dry out. I'm not sure how much you can speed this up without causing excessive cracking either.
Another thought (which you may already have considered) is an alternative heating source. Have you come across rocket mass heaters? Basically extremely clean burning and efficient wood stoves which store most of the heat from a very hot quick burn in thermal mass (usually cob!) and then release it slowly over the course of several hours. A couple of links if you haven't come across them before: top questions , video introduction to rocket mass heaters. Paul has a lot of stuff about 'heating the person not the room' but unfortunately I can't find a good link for that at the moment....
 
January Runels
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Thank you! I've been debating the straw bale walls, just not sure how that would work.  It's absolutely possible the lack of ventilation (though there seems to be a few "leaks" at the seams.  The mold may be a issue, but I haven't seen evidence of this other than the white "piles" I've found.  I've looked up pictures of white mold and it doesn't really look to be the same.

I will absolutely look into the rocket heaters. Thank you for the suggestion.  The insulation in the panels... I'm not real sure.  It is similar to Styrofoam, but I'm not certain what it is exactly.  

Great info, thanks so much.
 
Glenn Herbert
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Freezer panels would be completely wrapped in metal (or other waterproof material), but since you have cut holes for electrical fixtures, I would expect the white piles to be from mice making homes inside the panels.  Are the piles near panel cuts? Are they under furniture that could be chewed into? Mouse droppings and dust from them could be an issue alongside mold, and would support mold growth. How well have you sealed the places where you cut into the freezer panels?

You mentioned putting a layer of black plastic under the holey roofing and above ceiling panels; can you see into that area anywhere to find out if the plastic has been damaged and possibly leaking into the ceiling? That might give habitat for mold.

Finally, assuming you can get the walls sealed or reworked to not give problems, a rocket mass heater would give you an excellent source of free durable heating. You have lots of cob material and fuel at hand. Building a basic 6" J-tube RMH with a bell could be done with some salvaged old bricks and a barrel, and some stovepipe for a chimney. If you can afford firebricks this year, you can make a permanent RMH now; if not, you can make one for no money that will last a few years until you can afford nicer materials.
 
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