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Geoff Lawton's land purchase vid (design intro)

paul wheaton

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posted 11 years ago

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I watched it.

You can see it here

Permaculture-Designer-Magazine.jpg

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paul wheaton

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posted 11 years ago

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I thought that when he got right down to design, it was REALLY good. Early on when he was talking about flat land vs. steep land, I agreed with about 80% of what he said. There were a few points where I feel like if he had more time he could have gone into more detail.

The important part is that when it comes to how to look at a chunk of land and come up with a good plan, he did 98% what I would do. And this video is really excellent at showing it, with lots of graphics and animations and stuff.

Here is a youtube preview:

And, again, to see the full video go here.

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paul wheaton

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I just got this banner from Geoff's peeps.

While it is still free? I guess it will stop being free at some point.

GeoffLawton_Banner1.jpg

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Rawbert Fulop

Posts: 8

Location: Naples, FL

posted 11 years ago

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I wish there was some info on FLAT lands.. I just started on 5 acres in Naples, South Florida!

http://www.fruitsteading.com
Vegan Permaculture and Homesteading

Hans Quistorff

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Posts: 1908

Location: Longbranch, WA Mild wet winter dry climate change now hot summer

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posted 11 years ago

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This is what I have available according to his land purchase check list: 5 acres expandable to 7. In the center of Puget Sound in Western Washington State on the Key Peninsula between Case Inlet and Carr inlet. South East slope with pond in South East corner. Erickson Rd. KPS is the south boundary of the property. Access road was put in when the property was logged, from South West corner to flat landing area in center of slope and property. Electrical ditch has been dug alongside access road; Would require only underground wire and combination meter breaker box to bring power to building site. Septic design is required by the county first but the sandy gravel soil in front of the building site would probably only require a simple gravity system. House could be built on the landing area or in the mound behind it if you desire an earth sheltered house. The West side of the property has an access easement to the 14 acres behind which has not yet been completed. This is adjacent to 5+ acres of maturing fir timber land that the owner has told me she intends to keep that way as a buffer for her privacy.

The pond is on the edge of a one foot flood plain which continues across the lower third of the adjoining 2.5 acres, which is mostly cleared to pasture, and rest of my 5 acres which has a South West slope. There is consistent South West wind if you desire to pump water up to storage on the hill. The pond overflows into the road ditch all winter long Therefore a great deal of water could be harvested for summer irrigation. My drilled well is 80 feet at about the same level as the building site would be about 60 feet at the low corner. The electrical wire has to be covered one foot for final inspection then the water line could be placed before the ditch is filled.

This is a mirror image of my Qberry Farm except that my land slopes South West and the swale in between continues higher up the slope on the 2.5 acre lot which I am not using except to cut the grass for mulch. The 2.5 acres was divided and sold when that was still possible then bought back by my mother. It is not build-able without access from one of the adjoining lots because of the flood plain. It would be a fine addition to the 5 acres for some one that wishes to have grazing animals as part of their operation.

Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff

Collin Wolfe

Posts: 30

Location: 2b Regina. Sk

posted 11 years ago

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I turned my javascript to full on but to no avail. It just won't play. Darn it.

Miles Flansburg

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Location: Zones 2-4 Wyoming and 4-5 Colorado

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posted 11 years ago

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Good stuff as always. Helps me see more of what I could be doing with my property.

how permies.com works
real sounding name policy

Clifford Reinke

Posts: 124

Location: Puget Sound

posted 11 years ago

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Hans,

Small world, I live about 1 1/2 miles North of you on Mayo Cove.

Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)

Ben Plummer

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Posts: 345

Location: Midcoast Maine, Zone 5b

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Collin Wolfe wrote:I turned my javascript to full on but to no avail. It just won't play. Darn it.

Collin, I had the same problem when his first video came out and it is doing the same thing with this one. Dunno if it's because I use Linux.

Couldn't find any info online so on a hunch I downloaded Firefox Portable and ran it through Wine. That did the trick. You'll need to paste in the confirmation link from the email as the URL, or sign up again in the new browser..

Hope you get it working.

Vicky Barton

Posts: 25

Location: Chattaroy, north of Spokane, WA

posted 11 years ago

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So I watched the two short videos, but ... as a former advertising salesperson, can't shake the creepy feeling of this guy insisting on having my email addy. What a sales pitch, typical pusher. If it's free, post it on YTube and let it Be. I don't think he'll have anything more interesting than what I already find at Permies.com with no strings attached. It took me over a year to trust Permies with my email. *LOL*

Livin' on a thread.

Ben Plummer

gardener

Posts: 345

Location: Midcoast Maine, Zone 5b

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Vicky, if you are seriously worried about it use http://10minutemail.com/ or create a yahoo mail account. I have an email that only those close to me know and one for signing up for things.

I used to work in the industry too and know that everyone is trying to sell everyone something all the time. When we have discussions we are often trying to sell people on our ideas. People complaining about free, good information is baffling.

The only hard sell he makes in the videos is about the value of a PDC, not to run out and buy all his DVDs.

paul wheaton

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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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Requiring the email addy throws me off my feed too. But! I also think it is geoff, and I trust geoff. So I go ahead and do it. I did it when he asked for it last time, and it seems like there is no abuse.

Although I, of course, think everybody should do things the way I do things (put the vid on youtube and ask for people to volunteer for the email thing), I respect the overall feeling of "I MUST CHANGE THE WORLD!" and one big tool is to build an email list. I know that for me that has been one of the smartest things I have ever done.

To those that are having trouble playing the video: the video was a bit jumpy for me. I think whatever player they are using might not do so well over my weak internet connection.

I'll ask geoff's folks to have a look.

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Heidi Hoff

Posts: 127

posted 11 years ago

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I had a similar reaction to Vicky's: I wish he would let his knowledge and experience and credentials speak for themselves. I understand that his motivation for this series is to save the world by equipping as many people as possible with this knowledge. But too often it does come off as a sales pitch. The people who are watching his videos are already the "converted" for the most part, I would think. Whether we are motivated by concern about the planet, simply looking for a healthier and more sustainable source of food, trying to create beautiful low-maintenance landscapes for the sheer fun of it, uneasy about the future, or full-speed-ahead preppers worried about personal survival, we already "get it". I'm afraid that for folks who aren't already converted, his message and style will be so off-putting (and queasy-making) that they will not watch more than a few minutes of the film.

If I were his public relations consultant, I would advise him to drop the preachy, melodramatic, doom-and-salvation tone and just deliver the vast know-how he wants to share. The heroic, epic music is a major distraction; it sounds like the soundtrack for some movie saga of biblical proportions.

All that said, I have to thank him for sharing so much of his knowledge freely and investing so much in making these concepts comprehensible to folks who may never have a chance to do a PDC. Even if he seems to be trying to put the fear of the apocalypse into viewers and thus drum up business for permaculture design instructors, it is clear that he is sincerely motivated by his vision of the future and wants to help the planet and the people thrive in an alternative future of our own making.

Zone 3b, Lower St. Lawrence, Quebec

paul wheaton

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I think it is interesting that this has become interesting to Geoff. In my feeble attempt to read between the lines, I suspect that a lot of his consultation clients are of this mindset and he is responding to demand.

I'm looking at that video and I'm thinking that somebody spent about $30,000 to create that one 38 minute video. So I kinda feel like it is a step up over youtube. Therefore forking over an email is a tiny price to pay.

As for different ways to do this stuff: I get hundreds/thousands of people telling me that about my stuff and my default answer is that the folks seeking change should create the superior video. We could use more good permaculture videos!

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Heidi Hoff

Posts: 127

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Hi Paul,

Just to be clear, I very much appreciate your videos and the time you take to put them out there for all of us information-seekers. And I very much appreciate that your videos are all brass-tacks: no moral message to be found in any that I have seen.

I understand -- from Mr. Lawton's first video in this series -- that he has lots of folks coming to him who have a somewhat gloomy mindset, if not a full-blown case of "future panic". So maybe this is the audience he is preaching to, trying to reassure them and motivate them. My concern is that he will be pushing away people who are just getting interested. They might be just sticking a toe in the water and are getting hit with a biblical flood. (I keep using the word "biblical" because the choice of music makes that association unavoidable for me.) I watch his videos because I know how good he is at what he does and I want all the information he is willing to share. But I don't need another dose of anxiety along with the info (I already read the papers and subscribe to The Daily Climate...).

Your videos, Paul, always make me think, "Cool. What a good idea! I wonder if I can do something like that." They motivate me to go further, explore more deeply, get involved and take action however I can. They don't fill me with the fear of disaster and give me the heebie-jeebies.

Time to go plant some heirloom seeds...

Zone 3b, Lower St. Lawrence, Quebec

paul wheaton

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posted 11 years ago

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I think it is good to have a thousand flavors of permaculture videos. This way thousands of different personalities can learn permaculture in a way that works best for them.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Micky Ewing

Posts: 107

Location: Merrickville, Ontario

posted 11 years ago

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Bill Kerans wrote:Vicky, if you are seriously worried about it use http://10minutemail.com/ or create a yahoo mail account. I have an email that only those close to me know and one for signing up for things.

I gave Geoff my email, but while I was waiting for the confirmation email to come back, I got impatient and decided to try a 10minutemail address. Seems Geoff's back end system is wise to this strategy. It rejected the temporary address with the message:

Different Address Needed
You cannot subscribe to this list with the email address you entered.

Mike

Mike
http://tenderfootfarmer.ca

Len Ovens

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Location: Vancouver Island

posted 11 years ago

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Bill Kerans wrote:

Collin Wolfe wrote:I turned my javascript to full on but to no avail. It just won't play. Darn it.

Collin, I had the same problem when his first video came out and it is doing the same thing with this one. Dunno if it's because I use Linux.

Shouldn't be. I watched the first one on ubuntustudio 12.04 and this one on 13.04. No settings to change, just click and go. Also watched part of the new one on xubuntu. That works too. So any of the Ubuntu's should work fine.... means any debian should too. I haven't tried any of the other browsers. I guess I should. Anyway, wine not needed... I haven't needed wine for anything outside of hulls.exe

Anyway, it was a good video. The slope and placement were good for me... placement of a home is about what I was thinking. It lines up with the underground home stuff elsewhere on the site. But knowing the range of slope to look for was helpful. I am/will be looking to buy.

len at ubuntustudio dot org

Chris Kott

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I am wondering if it's the North American perspective I'm hearing that is turned off by the doom-and-salvation tones (and the epic music, though I think it's way too tribal to strike me as biblical). For us, climate change and desertification might mean spending more on irrigation, buying more from the grocery store than we want to, or moving to where the grass is greener; in some places in the world, if humanitarian aid from the States were to stop, people would begin dying of starvation within a week. There are places where these videos might mean the difference between thriving abundance and desert. I don't think the tone is off at all, for the most part. If anything, we might all be wearing our (North)American-centric goggles too much of the time to see where his take might be entirely appropriate.

Thanks, Paul.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

Len Ovens

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posted 11 years ago

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paul wheaton wrote:I think it is interesting that this has become interesting to Geoff. In my feeble attempt to read between the lines, I suspect that a lot of his consultation clients are of this mindset and he is responding to demand.

I'm looking at that video and I'm thinking that somebody spent about $30,000 to create that one 38 minute video. So I kinda feel like it is a step up over youtube. Therefore forking over an email is a tiny price to pay.

As for different ways to do this stuff: I get hundreds/thousands of people telling me that about my stuff and my default answer is that the folks seeking change should create the superior video. We could use more good permaculture videos!

To add to this, email addresses allow him to track how many people are watching. I am quite sure I could make a copy of the video and post it for no email required download... but I won't. As Paul has said there are costs involved in making these. I suspect part of the deal in getting the funding is being able to show size of audience. This is a common practice in broadcasting (radio/tv). The email means he can tell me when the next one comes out.... so far that is all he does. As it turns out, I get far more spam from having the required email in my domain registry

While I can see the preachy-ness, I seem to be able to filter it out without thinking... In fact I didn't notice it till I read these comments. I am interested in the information over the man's ideology. I find that in almost any field of study these things have to be separated. The "thrive" video was much worse in this regard, much harder to separate fact from belief.

Geoff has much more time studying this stuff, I will learn what I can.

Christian McMahon

Posts: 72

posted 11 years ago

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I really enjoyed the video. I don't see why people are complaining about giving up an email. I invite more information on this topic. What is the worst thing that can happen? I give some resources to Geoff Lawton and I succeed at making a permaculture/polyculture haven for my family? If that is the problem sign me up. It's interesting and almost counter intuitive to take into account the land before placing the domicile. I think he missed a few things I would check out. The local government could become a major problem when you start doing some of the things in the video. You may want to do some research into paper pushers in the area and what they have a track record of doing to people on their land.

Heidi Hoff

Posts: 127

posted 11 years ago

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Personally, I am delighted to be on Mr. Lawton's emailing list, just as I am very happy to be on Paul's dailyish email list.

When a leading light in a field I am fascinated by offers to keep me abreast of new developments for free, I don't hesitate. Especially in light of all the utter nonsense that finds its way to my inbox, it is a welcome treat when an email from Geoff or Paul shows up!

I eagerly waited a couple of months for Geoff's email announcement of the new video to come, with no unrelated emails from him (or related third parties) being received in the interim. I find that he manages his list very, very responsibly (same goes for Paul). If anything, I wish I got more updates and such from him.

To speak to the substance of the new film, for me it was very useful, even though I'm not shopping for new land. I anticipate staying where I am on our little plot -- 1/50 or 1/500th the scale of the sites Geoff showed -- and deal with the challenges it presents. For example, the film persuaded me that, convenient or not, the best place for me to build a first small pond is quite near the road (as near as the municipal watchdogs will allow), as this is nearly the highest point on and typically covered with 8 to 10 feet of compacted snow drift by the time the spring melt comes. The film has also got me thinking about using the gentle hollows and ridges of our land to greater advantage, to channel nutrient flows and foot traffic in more practical ways, even though there is little possibility of building more than three small ponds on the entire site.

Zone 3b, Lower St. Lawrence, Quebec

Len Ovens

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Location: Vancouver Island

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Christian McMahon wrote:I think he missed a few things I would check out. The local government could become a major problem when you start doing some of the things in the video. You may want to do some research into paper pushers in the area and what they have a track record of doing to people on their land.

I agree, but... What he didn't say, though it did show in the video, was that it appears that he (or the owner of the property they used) used what would be allowed to do what he wanted. You can put roads just about anywhere you want. If you have to fill in a gully to do it, there is generally no problem... tell them I want a dam here and the answer would be NO. Best to say nothing about water at all... Use the words the municipality/district/county wants to hear. What they are used to. Oops there's water collecting here ... Oh well. Put a pipe in to direct it somewhere else

dj niels

Posts: 182

Location: CO; semi-arid: 10-12"; 6000 ft

posted 11 years ago

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I only got to watch the first 15 minutes, then my flash player crashed. So I never got past the list of things to look at, to see what else he had to say.

I have learned a lot from various things Geoff has put out. I have been especially impressed by his Jordan projects.

I do still have questions, though, when on one hand I hear people say Permaculture is free, you don't have to take a PDC to do permaculture, and only need a PDC if you want to teach permaculture, yet others, like Geoff on this video, seem to be saying that you have to take a PDC, to be able to do a permaculture design.

Chris Kott

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I believe that if you listen to both videos, you might notice that he talks about taking a PDC as something of an obligation of those who want to push the ascendancy of permaculture forward. He doesn't say "you can't do permaculture without a PDC." He does state that the movement is trying to train up more teachers, so more people can be taught about permaculture. He doesn't come off at any point like he's excluding anyone who doesn't want to take a PDC. He does seem to be of the opinion that you will get farther and understand better if you do take the course, and that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I wonder if there's a set price schedule for the people running these things. I mean, if you went out and paid your thousands of dollars to take your PDC, and then you offered a really cut-rate course that was as comprehensive and qualitatively no different than the standard, would anyone get hot and bothered about teaching PDCs for like a tenth of the price, or nothing (in case of those who have nothing to pay), or would it fall under the third ethic?

I don't know if I care to take a PDC personally, as I already own the Designers' Manual, and it is pretty comprehensive, and my brain works well enough to take words on a page and extrapolate their greater meanings, but I do know that if they were $100-$300 instead of $1000-$3000, I would have already taken the time. I wonder how many people feel the same way.

-CK

Collin Wolfe

Posts: 30

Location: 2b Regina. Sk

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Good video! After many hours of service pack updates, I was able to install IE9 (not my typical browser) and view the video. I look forward to the next one.

Gemma Buell

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Location: Napa, CA

posted 11 years ago

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For those having difficulty with the video you might want to try lowering the quality. Hover your mouse over the HD emblem on the lower right and select a lower quality setting. This solved the issue for me.

Windows 7, Google Chrome

Alana Bliss

Posts: 17

Location: Finca Fruición, Costa Rica

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Hi ya'all,

I wanted to share a little trick I use for videos. I live in Costa Rica and our internet is, well, slow. So, watching videos online isn't easy, but now I have a free way to download any video that is playing and I can watch it when it is done. I use a firefox plug in called Ant. If you google Ant firefox plug in, you will find it, then you just install it and play the videos using VLC, which you can also download for free. It works great for me, and then I don't have to worry about jumpy video.

Hope this helps in watching the wonderful videos featured on this site and online in general.

Peace.
Alana

Natural Building Course - Jan. 9th, 2014
Creative Kid's Camp -
Costa Rica
Come learn and play with us.
www.fincafruicion.com/naturalbuilding

Vicky Barton

Posts: 25

Location: Chattaroy, north of Spokane, WA

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Curiousity got the best of me, so I forked over my precious email addy and watched Geoff's videos. I need to learn that if Paul Wheaton says it's good to watch, it is INDEED good to watch. (Thanks Paul.) While I can't do anything to change the 4 acres we bought ("as is") in 2011, we are just now developing ideas on how to maintain this chunk of forest. Farmlands north and west of us, wooded areas to the east and south. Hugelkultur and Permaculture foremost on our brains, it's nice to have input and encouragement towards improving the land for all its inhabitants. I enjoyed Geoff's videos.

Livin' on a thread.

Jane Reed

Posts: 106

Location: Fairplay, Northern California

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As someone who is on the verge of retirement, and who intends to purchase a few acres of land, I now know the things about which I have to do more research. When I go to look for land I'll have my own checklist which will be more fully informed, thanks to Geoff. The video was so helpful to me in achieving better understanding of some permaculture concepts that were a little hazy before.

Jane

Matthew Nistico

pollinator

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Location: Clemson, SC ("new" Zone 8a)

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I would like to second Heidi Hoff's sentiments, above: I am totally 100% cool with Geoff Lawton having my email address. I don't understand what everyone is so upset about. He has actually had me on his list for months now, and it is hardly like he has been filling up my mailbox with spam - I probably get a couple of emails a month from his site, and most are ones I want to read! Same, same in the future: he can send me whatever periodic updates or promotions or notices about new activities or products and I will be happy to read about them.

As for the video, I only wish I knew what everyone was talking about. I can't seem to play it no matter what I do, even though my system meets all requirements listed on his site (fast connection, Windows 7, Google Chrome which has Flash player built in and auto-updated). I do understand his reasons for posting the video on his own site and making it email-confirmation-dependent, as opposed to posting it on YouTube: this way he collects an email list and can track how many people view it. Too bad, though, that so many seem to be having problems using the player he has chosen. Oh well, I guess if I wait long enough someone will bit-torrent it, and then I will have to pirate a free video. How ironic is that?!

Blazing trails in disabled homesteading

Ben Plummer

gardener

Posts: 345

Location: Midcoast Maine, Zone 5b

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Sorry Vicky, I realize I broke the one rule this forum has in my response and was a being jerk.

For the 10minutemail, I'm not surprised, but a yahoo account works fine.

Tom OHern

Posts: 236

Location: Seattle, WA

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For those of you who are worried about spam, if you use Gmail, it has a great feature to help. You can append a "+Keyword" to your account name in your email and it will still be valid. For instance, if my email address is joe1234@gmail.com, I can submit my email as joe1234+lawton@gmail.com. Then I can set up a "Lawton" folder and filter any emails sent to joe1234+lawton@gmail.com into that folder. That way if anyone ever sells your email address to someone else, and they start sending you spam, you can easily see who sold your address and then start filtering all emails from that source directly into your spam folder.

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4025

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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Tom OHern wrote:For those of you who are worried about spam, if you use Gmail, it has a great feature to help. You can append a "+Keyword" to your account name in your email and it will still be valid. For instance, if my email address is joe1234@gmail.com, I can submit my email as joe1234+lawton@gmail.com. Then I can set up a "Lawton" folder and filter any emails sent to joe1234+lawton@gmail.com into that folder. That way if anyone ever sells your email address to someone else, and they start sending you spam, you can easily see who sold your address and then start filtering all emails from that source directly into your spam folder.

Good to know.

It was good to reconfirm everything we did wrong buying this property

I really wish I would have seen it about 10 years ago.

Since I am not blessed with hills, I didn't have a lot of choice for gravity feed water systems.

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

paul wheaton

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Geoff's peeps sent me a couple more banners

lawton-permaculture-designer.jpg

lawton-permaculture-property.jpg

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Len Ovens

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Location: Vancouver Island

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Hey, there's a new video today. It is a spot study on a 5 acre piece and how it was used. Quite good, though I am not sure I would get away with obstructing the roadway ditch

But that depends on how it is built. Also, in this area, the district cleans the roadside drainage once in a while, so they would have to be remade after.

Notice the word access when talking about one of the dams. i would suggest that word when talking to the district/county

They understand access and also treating standing water as a "problem" rather than a resource. In north America, all resources are owned by someone (mostly not the land owner), but problems belong to the land owner. So make problems and call them that when dealing with officials. This will also keep your taxes lower if handled right.

Heidi Hoff

Posts: 127

posted 11 years ago

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The 5 Acre video is really useful for folks working on a smaller scale, like me. Gets you thinking about water resources and creatively cycling them through the site. Also wonderful to see how the plan evolved over time, as Geoff noticed opportunities and took advantage of them very cleverly. Inspiring!

Zone 3b, Lower St. Lawrence, Quebec

Josh J.J. Jones

Posts: 44

Location: MO_AR stateline Zone 6b/7a

posted 10 years ago

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I have issues watching Geoff's videos in Firefox. When I switch to Chrome, they work fine. Just a suggestion that could be an easy solution. Vimeo vids just don't like my Firefox. Could be any number of extensions I have installed too.

There is something that I do not know, the knowing of which can change EVERYTHING!!!

Erik Ven

Posts: 94

Location: "...where somebody's struggling to be free, look in their eyes and you'll see me..."

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posted 7 years ago

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I wanted to put this out here because it is tine sensitive and important:
Call For Action! The world's most bio diverse land based ecosystem, the Los Cedros Biological Reserve in Ecuador is about to be turned into a mining operation. Once this happens it is irreversible. Yeah, says who? We hear stuff like that every day. What if Geoff Lawton the world's utmost authority on permaculture, the guy who literally turned the desert into a food forest says so? Yes but it's not in our backyard, - Yes IT IS! We only have one Earth, everywhere is our backyard! Please help Geoff Lawton (and yourself) by spreading awareness of this crime and take action.

"As I get older I realize that being wrong is not a bad thing like they teach it in school. It is an opportunity to learn something" (Richard Feynman) https://tranqvillium.org

Erik Ven

Posts: 94

Location: "...where somebody's struggling to be free, look in their eyes and you'll see me..."

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posted 7 years ago

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"As I get older I realize that being wrong is not a bad thing like they teach it in school. It is an opportunity to learn something" (Richard Feynman) https://tranqvillium.org

We can fix it! We just need some baling wire, some WD-40, a bit of duct tape and this tiny ad:

2024 Permaculture Adventure Bundle

https://permies.com/w/bundle