Muscovy meat...

So I raise Muscovy for meat... they are not in mallard family and a tree bird. Their meat is more red meat then typical " duck meat"

I tested intolerant/ allergic to duck.... and rabbit...

Does muscovy meat fall under the category of " duck meat" or no, since it's not Oillie and more red meatish? It's a tree bird...

Or would the meat still fall under duck?

I need to decide if I'm out of the muscovy business.

Also I don't like chicken white meat. So what other small game can O raise for meat?

It is hard to tell if you might be intolerant or not to other waterfowl.

I tried to do some research and it seems that people who are allergic to duck eggs do tend to tolerate muscovy eggs. I would think the only course of action is to carefully try it IF you really want to know.

Have you considered quail? The meat is dark but very mild flavored.

I had tried raising quail but they were so small... maybe we can try again... it's a thought. Thank you.

Muscovy are closer, evolutionary speaking, to geese than ducks. Any idea if you can eat goose?

What an animal eats can be a factor. If you can control the bird's diet, that might also affect your ability to eat it.

As to alternatives, cuy - large version of guinea pig - are supposed to be easy to grow. Some places have weird rules about them due to the fact that in North America they tend to be considered pets.

There's also the whole world of insects. I was just reading about the edibility of silk worms.

Muskovy is closer to goose, than duck, genetically. But, no one here is going to be able to tell you whether you're going to have an issue with it. It might be wisest to find out more from your doctor about what meats you can safely eat, and what you can't. Another thing to think about is in what way is your body intolerant to duck and rabbit (which is a large genetic variation - one is mammal, one is fowl - not even close). If your intolerance is as simple as a mild stomach ache or a minor acne outbreak, maybe you could try an ounce or so, and see what happens. But, if it causes you something more severe, like seizures or anaphalactic shock, that would be unwise.

I feed mine non GMO feed.  My dr. Said test results show I'm allergic to duck, so knowing Muscovy really isn't a duck, but like you said, closer to goose... I was checking if I can still eat my muscovy...

I don't have reactions but apparently leaky gut and those are showing up as moderate allergy. Personally I don't notice an issue but inflamation.

Paula Hudak wrote:I feed mine non GMO feed.  My dr. Said test results show I'm allergic to duck, so knowing Muscovy really isn't a duck, but like you said, closer to goose... I was checking if I can still eat my muscovy...

I don't have reactions but apparently leaky gut and those are showing up as moderate allergy. Personally I don't notice an issue but inflamation.

Leaky guts are frequently related to grains, from what I've read. Keeping your Muscovy off grains and on grass and insects, might also make a difference. Non- GMO doesn't necessarily help with grains. My understanding is that some farmers use toxic gick to force the grain plants to all die back at once to make harvesting easier. Unless you can buy certified organic grain, or grow your own, you may still have issues.

I've also read that eating more naturally fermented foods, can help with leaky guts, but again, it partly depends on what the underlying issue is.

Not site how to quote who I'm replying to... but hmm it isn't organic, can't afford that... so leaky gut is from grains?

Paula Hudak wrote:Not site how to quote who I'm replying to... but hmm it isn't organic, can't afford that... so leaky gut is from grains?

Not always, but it seems to be a common theme among people I know who have that sort of issue. People with celiac disease clearly can't eat gluten, however a friend's son has a different diagnosis and isn't allowed to eat any grains with the occasional exception being oats. However that young man is doing a PhD in Biology and has done a pile of research about how environmental toxins may be triggering some of the reactions.

In other words, it's really hard to pinpoint. There can be one simple issue, or there can be multiple interacting issues.

I "raised" muscovy ducks for a few years in the Dominican Repermies. We even ate two of them. Having heard that ducks were created to render duck fat for the primary purpose of frying potatoes, we were curious to experience this. We oven-roasted an unlucky female (about 1/3 the size of a muscovy male), and one single drop of fat escaped. The meat was quite lean and had the texture and appearance of lean beef. We eventually, and reluctantly repeated the experiment with a young male to the same end. They are nothing like mallards - they are new world ducks whereas mallards are old world - two different families that have evolved to have some common features.

Our muscovies would eat prepared feed readily enough, but they were adept foragers. We became weary of the annual trauma of wing-clipping to keep them in their yard, and we wanted them to patrol our gardens and remove pests, so we gradually gave them free range. After about two years of amicable co-existence, one day the male flew away and never returned. The remaining females all stayed and gradually died of old age apparently - there were no conspicuous predators around. They continued to produce eggs - though we found them relatively rarely. The eggs were remarkably tough to crack - they had to be cut with a sharp knife to open, and the whites were clear but quite firm so we generally scooped from the shell with a spoon.

A muscovy next box hole is six-inches in diameter. The local "experts" thought that was ridiculously too small, but Storey's Guides are seldom wrong. Even the big male would go in those holes sometimes!

Cade Johnson wrote:We oven-roasted an unlucky female (about 1/3 the size of a muscovy male), and one single drop of fat escaped.

That's a Muscovy in the hot season. If I harvest late fall/early winter after some cold weather, I'll get a bit more fat, but if you're looking for fat you need domesticated Mallard ducks or domesticated geese. A source of humanely raised fat is very valuable in the kitchen - particularly if you like to do some baking as I do! Rabbits have no fat. Pigs are an important traditional source if you've got a suitable setup to manage them. Dairy cows are another traditional source. Healthy dietary fat was given a bad reputation, but from what I've read, industrial fat is worse.

Hi Paula,
Welcome to Permies.

I don't have experience with the muscovy meat question specifically. However, I do have experience with IBS and CIRS, both of which are very similar (and I personally would say related) to leaky gut. I'm also not a Doctor, just done a bunch of research and spoken with Doctors about stuff.

Do you know if it is an intolerance or an allergy? Most people think intolerance means a less severe allergy, but they are actually quite different. An allergy is when your immune system over-reacts to a substance and can cause life threatening symptoms. Allergies are not to be experimented with lightly... but also know that an allergy to meat is extremely rare. An intolerance is when your body cannot digest a substance properly, causing discomfort, but nothing life threatening, and does not include the immune system at all. An intolerance, I would absolutely experiment with, with the knowledge that I might get diahrea, feel bloated, foggy brain, or any number of things.

Another piece to keep in mind, is that no food tests that I know of, test organic/natural foods. Which means that all of the *icides as well as the food (of the animal) could be suspect. I, for instance, test as somewhat intolerant to dairy. If I drink a lot of commercial milk, I get bloated and uncomfortable and often have diahrea. If I drink raw, organic, unpasturized milk... I have no symptoms.

So... if it is in fact an intolerance, I would highly suggest that you go see a naturopathic doctor and see about working on your leaky gut. Most ND's are willing to look at the root cause that many MD's don't have time to deal with. It might just be that you could get your leaky gut under control, and your reactions would stop or lessen.

Ok Matt, Thanks so much for that info.

It us NOT an allergy but an Intolletence. And maybe not a real intollerence...

I mean... I get No reactions at all!! Nothing... but I have this fast heartbeat, and occasdional tightening of chest... many times in a day... I can't lose weight and " knew" something isn't right...

I did go to a Naturalpathic Dr. Who ran a vitamin load and food tolerance test...

They said my thyroid us a little slow, my liver is bogged up and inflamation in the blood... B12 was high and D low... but I take Vit. D  and not B12..lol.

And it showed I was intolerant to duck and rabbit...

But they did the wrong test which didn't test for normal meats, fruits and veggies, eggs and dairy, so they took more blood.

I eat duck a few times a week. Oh and she said I had leaky gut.

They told me to up what I was already taking and added a few like Milk Thistle.

So what are your thoughts, one researcher to another?

Thanks for all my replies.

Not a doctor, and there are MANY things that can cause high/low vitamin levels.

Just a heads up, a poorly functioning liver can indeed show raised B12 levels in blood.

Correlation is not necessarily causation but just keep an eye on how you feel in case you should press for more tests to rule out anything that could be significant.

Do you or anyone in your family have a history of CHF? High blood pressure?

If you having strange pulmonary issues including rapid pulse and chest pain it is a little worrying as that is not a 'normal' spot to be in if nothing seems to be the trigger for it.

Tim, waiting for the next test results but my speculations... is a possible milk intollerence... if my liver isn't working and intellect to dairy. Can that cause my liver to stop up and b12 to raise?

No dr.s just us common folks speculating?

Food of course can effect liver function. Things like alcohol or red meat are big ones that I hear referenced.

Medical is tough because it is like a ping pong game. One thing is effected, treat that, oh wait this other thing is now effected!

Sometimes medical staff have a hard time taking the whole into consideration when there are pieces. I know this has improved in my own healthcare the last few years and balancing out everything.

Until you have the tests, you might just be causing yourself more and more worry. It could be nothing! It could be something. Hard to tell.

I worked in an operating room for a few years and being able to talk to doctors was fascinating especially during surgery. The human body is WILD.

Hi Paula,
Again, I will start by saying that you should run anything I say past a Dr first :)

Having said that, here is what happened to me. I ended up in the hospital for sharp pains in the left side of my chest twice. Felt crumby, heart pounding, and the pain. Both times they checked me out thoroughly and found no issues with my heart. It wasn't until much later, I found that heart burn can "throw" pain into other parts of your chest. You can feel nothing in your esophagus, and feel pain other places in your chest. So I tested. The next time I felt that, I had a Tums... and the pain went away. Never take chest pain lightly, but for me, it was heartburn. **Side note, most people with heartburn, have it because of too little acid, not too much, and because of this, many medicines that reduce the acid can make it worse**. Not having enough acid was not letting me digest my food properly which led to a number of deficiencies and out of balance vitamins and minerals. This led to other symptoms like foggy brain, anxiety, depression, diarhea, fatigue and more. It's amazing the trickle down effect if your gut is off. For instance, my wife used to take tums like candy. She also often had anemia. Turns out that Tums has a lot of calcium... too much calcium can make your body have trouble absorbing iron, which can lead to anemia and fatigue... all because of heartburn. Haha.

A fairly safe way to test if any of your symptoms are caused by heartburn would be to try the duck meat and take a fast acting heartburn help right after of you feel those symptoms. The un-natural option would be something like Tums. A natural mix that I use is INNATE GI Response. It is kind of expensive, but works well for me the few times I still get heartburn. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00853FMWU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And there are many more options too.

Another thing that helped me that is also fairly innocuous, is apple cider vinegar. Fairly strong like 2 tbsp in 8oz of water during or just before a meal. An example here, is that I used to eat a whole quart of peanut butter pie ice cream, and I would wake up like 3am with massive cramping and diahrea. The proper thing to do, is not to eat that much at once (or not at all), but before I had the willpower, I would take ACV, and the next morning I would wake up feeling blah, but not nearly the stomach indigestion I would have without it.

It is clear your gut is off somehow, and you need someone more knowledgeable than I am to get specific, but these would be two fairly easy things to try to give you more information about how your body reacts and see what direction you might want to take.

Paula Hudak wrote:So I raise Muscovy for meat... they are not in mallard family and a tree bird. Their meat is more red meat then typical " duck meat"

I tested intolerant/ allergic to duck.... and rabbit...

Does muscovy meat fall under the category of " duck meat" or no, since it's not Oillie and more red meatish? It's a tree bird...

Or would the meat still fall under duck?

I need to decide if I'm out of the muscovy business.

Also I don't like chicken white meat. So what other small game can O raise for meat?

Obviously not a doctor, but to share my own experience.  My gut was/is a hot mess.  My naturopath has declared me an autoimmune sh*tstorm, and I have several diagnoses. I did the comprehensive allergy testing, and I react to almost everything except meat and a few fruits. (Duck was okay for me, but Turkey was in the red). What she told me was that if I gave my body a chance to heal, my immune system would likely calm down and be less hyper-reactive, and I probably wouldn’t have such violent reactions to everything.

My plan has been to go to a strict carnivore diet, but I haven’t succeeded yet 😖. So I can’t say for sure if healing the gut will help… but that’s my hope.

I also raise Muscovies and I love them.  So easy and so delicious.