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Procrastinator permaculture?  RSS feed

 
Satamax Antone
gardener
Posts: 2240
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Hi everybody.

Well, i admit it blatantly i'm a waister. I can use my brain a bit, but i'm lazy as fcuk! I've seen the video about Fukuoka, and may be a few others. But i was wondering, is there a way to grow food for people like me? You know, it's bad to the point where i think i would put off picking up fruits and vegs for another day, when i feel like it. I don't have a garden as of yet, but i would like to have one soon.

Any advice?

Thanks a lot.

Max.
 
David Livingston
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Location: Anjou ,France
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Start small ,start on your window ledge, start in pots, start by getting stuff for free. but first start !

If you lived near me I would be offering you stuff all the time - herbs seedlings plants I dont need etc its what gardeners should do . Once you have started you will not want to stop

David
 
Charli Wilson
Posts: 296
Location: Derbyshire, UK
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I'd say that permaculture was THE 'gardening for lazy people' method (well, other than hiring a gardener), ok setting up can be a load of work- but once done there's less mowing, less water, less weeding, etc.

With a 'regular' yard, if you can't be bothered to mow then it doesn't take long to look like a jungle. can't be bothered to water? well- now all your plants are dead. But I can ignore my garden quite happily for ages- those weeds are chicken food, the ducks mow the lawn for me, everything survives without irrigation, and wandering through the garden for veggies is a lot less effort than visiting the grocery store (and the work I have to do to earn the money to pay for the... you get the message).
 
Satamax Antone
gardener
Posts: 2240
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Thanks a lot guys!

I've been arsed enough to read it all

May be that's a first step.
 
Cris Bessette
gardener
Posts: 801
Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 7A
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I have to agree with the other poster: Permaculture IS "lazy" gardening!


Once you get it going, it's permanent (hence PERMA-culture)

Start small- pots, one small bed,etc.

Plant fruit trees, bushes , plants. (A few minutes to dig a hole, a lifetime of fruit)

Plant some perennial vegetables.
 
Dan Tutor
Posts: 103
Location: Zone 5, Maine Coast
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Satamax Antone wrote:Thanks a lot guys!

I've been arsed enough to read it all

May be that's a first step.


I try to do little bits and pieces of projects when I feel really motivated so it never feels like a chore.
The beauty of permaculture with its long term projects and goals is that you can start several projects and walk away for weeks or months and then get back to them when you and they are ready.
Constant meddling is often the worst thing when growing plants or fungi, be lazy!
Start the seeds and walk away...
Plant a few tree saplings, fence them or treetube them, come back in a year, prune, fertilize
Repeat next year
Eventually eat fruit!
Cut down weed trees, brush, pile them in prospective hugulcultures, come back whenever and bury them...come back in the spring and plant them!
Start shitake logs, put them somewhere shaded...check on them periodically.
 
Landon Sunrich
pollinator
Posts: 1703
Location: Western Washington
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One of my primary strategies is procrastination and observation. It works wonders for me. There is the occasional week or two of busting ass - but its not more than I think most could manage.
 
Burra Maluca
Mother Tree
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Location: Portugal Zone 9 Mediterranean Climate
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So do you have a bit of land available to convert into a garden?

Maybe a photo and a bit of a description would stimulate a few more specific ideas for you.
 
Satamax Antone
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Posts: 2240
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Burra Maluca wrote:So do you have a bit of land available to convert into a garden?

Maybe a photo and a bit of a description would stimulate a few more specific ideas for you.
Well, i'm trying to buy this. To make my workshop and a little flat above. There's a nice piece of land around, mostly riverbank type, stones with mud and sand in between. But i live in a posh ski resort, and this is all i can afford. Anyway, there's one sure thing, i won't have any shortage of stones for rocket mass.

I realy want that pish building. It's nearly permie. Higly insulative bricks, i have to redo the roof, because he put some cork for flooring in it, and it's way not enough insulation for here. There's a bit of work, but i can't stand the mews in which i have the workshop now. Can't stand theses anymore!

WP_000411.jpg
[Thumbnail for WP_000411.jpg]
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 5725
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Find a pot, fill with soil, plant a seed, water it, set in a sunny window (on a small plate), water again when dry...watch it grow....even if it dies eventually there is a little bit of magic in that daily observation of something you have planted. Start very small, step by step...if you find your inner 'gardener' you won't be able to stop growing things. Try not to set insurmountable goals that get in the way of success.
 
Leila Rich
steward
Posts: 3999
Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,
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Satamax, I get the impression you're a buildy/engineery type.
I am not!
I love growing plants though, and the food preservation stuff that goes with it.
I suppose my point is that growing things is just one part of permaculture's holistic design science
and there's plenty of room for everyone.
Sharing our individual strengths (and otherwise) are what enables community sustainability.
For example, I don't have chickens and probably never will here: the garden wins!
I get eggs from someone who's beloved chickens freely wander the hills up the coast.
In our permies fantasy community, maybe you could show me how to build something rockety
and I could offload tomatoes, kimchi and pesto on you
No way am I saying "don't bother", I just think people sometimes get caught trying to do everything themselves
and sometimes it's good to give ourselves a break.

 
Eric Thompson
Posts: 371
Location: Bothell, WA - USA
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Looks like a nice building there, but i think your area is meant for Summer working Does the land have a lot of slope?

I've been to La Clusaz and Chammonix in winter, but would really like to see it in Summer too! It seems like most places have more slope than I would prefer, but some of the creek bottom areas look very nice!
 
Satamax Antone
gardener
Posts: 2240
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Hi everybody!

Judith, i've grown things before. Pot on my own for a while, but i have long given up. And when i was a kid, with my grand parents and with the parents of my father's lass. Who had a farm. I was even feeding the pigs etc

Leila, i'm a tech whore Anything i can learn. I've done engineering and motorcycle mechanics at school, and learnt guitarmaking too. I can work on valve amps, i've learnt roofing on the job too. My actual main trade, roofing and timberframing. Bought a metal lathe from 56 lately (but a lovely one) I can work with leather. ( no no, there's no S at leather, i'm not that type ) I own a 4wd land cruiser form 88, and i don't believe in human induced climate change. But i've always lived around people with gardens and orchads. I believe in produce less, but better quality, and the biug chem drive me absolutely nuts!

Eric, in the winter, i'm a liftie, runing a 4 man chairlift. So, work in the winter happens with snowboards boots And that plot of land is nearly flat, may be 2 feet from one end to the other.

I hope i can buy it. Prob is getting a mortgage, which i would rather have avoided. And agreeing with the actual owner.
 
Erica Wisner
gardener
Posts: 1171
Location: Okanogan Highlands, Washington
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Sounds like you are up for complex challenges, but the day-to-day (boring bits) is where you lose interest / fail to keep up with a garden. Same for me, anyway.

The most productive times for me to garden are when I'm procrastinating on boring things for work or household chores
So I do a lot of sporadic, i-get-to-play-outside days, and try to do something useful each time I escape to the garden. I don't mind hard physical work, but I know I'm not good at routine, repetitive tasks.

A book I read recently emphasized that most people are really bad at remembering 'important, but non-urgent' tasks, especially when busy.
A working person with lots of interests will always be busy.

So you can maximize return on effort by investing in clever, self-managing systems; instead of things that depend on your continuing efforts.

One thing I'm finding is that in our high/dry climate, it takes routine water to get perennials established.
Don't be afraid to set up a drip-irrigation timer, or put some extra time into a greywater mulch basin, or set up a hugel bed when you get interested.
Those kinds of things, where you can then 'water' the garden without 'remembering to water the garden', are real lifesavers. In our climate with hard freezes, the irrigation system should be robust enough to handle being accidentally left on, because I do that sort of thing. Or it should automatically turn itself off, and drain, when it detects freezing weather.

So far, I got a cheap hose timer that turns off the hose, and spent a couple spring days last year hauling logs and dirt around to make a hugel. So I can stick the hose in one part of the hugel, go eat or get distracted, and let the timer turn it off. The soaked wood shares moisture evenly throughout the beds; I don't have to sprinkle each plant.
I am seriously interested in getting an automatic timer that does daily or weekly patterns on multiple hoses, because that would let me get multiple beds and hedges going without changing my habits.
Weeding can happen in bursts, but regular watering is awfully helpful.

I would definitely emphasize perennials and bulbs, things that will keep bearing flowers and fruit year after year. Herbs, too, if your climate will make them perennial.
Annuals are more of an attention hog - going back a week too late and finding your broccoli or radishes have bolted is kinda depressing. But you can look at local seed-ball varieties, and browse what comes. If you didn't invest a lot of effort then getting anything at all from the garden feels like good luck.

I would also make a point to go for lots of walks and see what's growing for other people. See what's naturally there.
Look for trees that are fruiting in neglected yards in autumn - you don't want to be the guy putting dainty little nets over things, or opening the greenhouse every morning.
You want to wander through like a bear between hibernation cycles, and eat something tasty, yes?

Or have your friends come over and pick fruit, and bake you a pie as a thank-you.

Maybe you want a yard with just some lovely maple or birch trees, and maybe make some birch beer, and trade it for some produce from people who really like weeding.

How does that sound?

If you don't get this piece of land, I hope you will find the right place.
I've heard of skilled people getting a 'you build it and live in it for X years, I get it afterwards', or even a lifetime lease from local landowners, when they have a good relationship and similar values.

-EKW
 
Satamax Antone
gardener
Posts: 2240
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Well, spoke with the owner. At 100000€ tax included, he is not selling. He's got someone else who's comming to look at it. We'll see how he behaves after! If the guy knows anything about building, i bet he'll offer even less than me!

But right now, with this, my crane probs, no lass to take care of me, and jobs not comming in, i'm getting the grumps big time!

 
Dale Hodgins
gardener
Posts: 6150
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
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It seems that you might want to find a nice girl to help out with this. With the right partner, everything is easier and more affordable. I've never been in that enviable situation, but I've observed it. Married couples account for the majority of new house builds in my city. Single people often spend too much on housing and other things.

It can be quite dangerous financially, to have someone move in when they have not contributed to creation of the asset. In Canada, she could own some of your home within 6 months.
 
Satamax Antone
gardener
Posts: 2240
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Time for a bump.

We kind of agreed on a price with the owner. Now it's the bank which will have the last word.


In the L shape, i will most certainly make a terrace on posts. 800sqf, or thereabouts. May be extend it with a hangar. Will see what i need.

The neighbor i'm not too keen on. How would you do huggel hedges? What would you put in theses? Remember, terrain is usualy acidic, to loamy (is it right, bottom of glacier's lakes, there's slates, and a bit of limestones relatives, some old volcanic) the soil is poor there, real poor. 1500mhigh. Snowy, but plenty of sun and water.

Gooseberry, redberry, redcurrant, blackberry and blackcurrant grow all right here.

Looking for ideas.

Thanks.

Max.
 
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