New to forum, not to permie-ness; need tree help.

I searched and didn't see an intro location or rules other than "be nice" so if I need to redirect elsewhere, please tell me where to search! Want to give brief info so that goals can be better understood. I've enjoyed what I've read through the last few days.

We're a family of 4, (elder, retired; two adults, about 40; child with autism, 5) and we are all that's left of our families. We've bought a few south facing sloped acres in western TN, and have spent a few years getting to know the space. I have about 10 years city-permaculture in KY, (no chickens or "farm animals",) with hugelkulture experimentation and some permaculture course credits to my name. My parents raised me with chickens, ducks, rabbits, goats, etc. Critters aren't new, i just have catching up to do. We now have chickens, prepping for rabbits, a few fruit trees, berry shrubs and medicinals started. Zone 7, roughly.

Now we're facing taking down some dangerous 20 to 60 ft trees at risk of falling on the house, and need smaller, hopefully useful, small trees or shrubs to assist with slope stabilization. There are some limitations to consider and I am running into the same small sampling of possible options and I know I am missing something.

We're looking for trees in dwarf/semi dwarf category or shrubs we can plant on the slopes closest to buildings and build the guilds around. Shorter more scrubby trees will do less damage than the oaks, hickories, pine, cedar etc that are already leaning in towards budings.

Nut trees are out. Hubs is allergic to walnut pollen and has cross reaction to hazelnut and hickory pollen.

We currently have 2 each apple, cherry, pear, apricot, and plum in other areas. My elderberry cuttings didn't make it. Strawberries are getting leaves each year, but as yet no flowers. Deer ate our highbush blueberries so we'll have to replace and protect those. We also have 2 grape vines. We'll see if the fig made it through this insane weather.

I'm considering Aronia, service berry, witch hazel, redbud, peach, gooseberry, currant, cranberry, lingonberry paw paw, mulberry if there's a dwarf variety, passion flower, hops, and hardy kiwi.

What else might take us the direction we need to go?

Find a local to your area online nursery.  They usually have the same varieties on multiple rootstocks.  I would focus on varieties with the most dwarfing rootstocks for stabilization.  In my own orchard, I usually plant four varieties of each fruit in a 20' square, that I refer to as a "quad".  So, that's four apples, four peaches, four plums, ect in each "quad".  If you select the most dwarfing stocks, then I'd go smaller than 20 X 20' spacing.  For regular ground cover under the trees, maybe some clover for erosion control.

You're in zone 7, which is what I think I am, here on my Sierra foothills homestead, so I really don't think you'll have any success with figs, unless you go with an extensive frost protection strategy.  In have one Hardy Chicago fig in my orchard, and it is barely hanging one, dieing back each winter, and resprouting from the stump.  At my place, animal protection is the single most important priority, so I haven't focused much on winter protection.

I myself have planted some nitrogen-fixing shrubs, like Autumn Olive, and SeaBerry, but I've not really had success with those.  On my own property, chestnuts and European plums have had the most success.

Hilly Haven wrote:I'm considering Aronia, service berry, witch hazel, redbud, peach, gooseberry, currant, cranberry, lingonberry paw paw, mulberry if there's a dwarf variety, passion flower, hops, and hardy kiwi.

I'd think about adding Haskap (Lonicera caerulea) to the list. It's very hardy and can do well in a variety of applications/climates and can handle high elevation. I've had the best success planting them on the shelves of hugel berms here in Colorado, which gets down to -15 F at times but I'm sure you won't have that freezing issue in Tennessee.

There are two main varieties that are readily available from my experience. One is Aurora, which grows taller and has a more tart/savory berry, but still very sweet. They are pretty easy to propagate too if you take cuttings in late winter/early spring. Then you have the Tundra, which is closer to the ground and produces a very rich, sweet berry. I've had issues trying to propagate my Tundras but I think it's just cause I wasn't taking cuttings at the right time. There are a whole variety of hybrids available from Canada as well.

I'd also check out Jostaberry, which is a Gooseberry/Currant hybrid. I planted one last year and it should be producing this year. Haven't tried the berries yet but I'm assuming they taste good if they come from those two plants.

Anyways, just shooting some ideas.

What about pawpaws? Native, no real pests, smallish tree. It does put up suckers though.

Just watched a hardy Fruit tree video where the following can withstand a lot of neglect (my kind of gardening/orcharding ):

1. Paw Paw
2. American Persimmon
3. Juneberry          
4. Jujube
5. Mulberry

Please let me know if these are interesting to you and I can fwd the link. It's ~ 1.5hr video with some great Q&A (at least for me; I'm new to this...).

For all kinds of interesting info on Project Paw Paw (including a US festival near you)

Is jujuberry the same as chinese jujube?


jujube

It looks interesting. Hardy to 5F, and likes hot summers

You're correct, jujube is also called Chinese Date, because of the way they dry down.  They start out as tiny apple-like fruit, with a sweet/tart flesh akin to apple.  But, they then dry on the tree to a chewy date-like fruit that's more mealy and less sweet then Arabian dates.

BTW, I tried both at my own homestead.  I planted two different jujube varieties, and one is already bearing fruit, but the fruit I'm getting is far smaller (~10mm) than any I've ever seen in Asian stores.  I also attempted Arabian dates from seed I sprouted myself, but they all died out from the winter cold.

What about other nut trees? So everything in the walnut family is out, as are hazelnuts, but what about almonds for example? If apricots are okay, almonds probably are as well, no? Smallish trees, should be possible in your climate as far as I can tell. Other possible nut trees, entirely unrelated to those your husband is allergic to, would be the conifers: nut pines, monkey puzzles and Torreya species. Most of those are probably way too big for that precise situation, but there is at least one nut pine species, Pinus pumila, which is a shrub. Its nuts are smaller than those of other species, but it might be worth considering.

Yes, that was typo Nancy. will edit...

Thanks everyone, ziziphus jujuba, here's a link:

https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/ziziphus-jujuba/

I believe all recommendations are in Lee Reich's book

Mk Neal wrote:What about pawpaws? Native, no real pests, smallish tree. It does put up suckers though.

yes, that one is on my list. I'm the o ly one in the family that has tried it and I'm not the biggest fan, so I don't want to get carried away with them. We apparently ave some close, as the butterfly that breeds and them was everywhere this year. Literally hundreds at once.

mulberry for sure. and if you have rabbits (or goats?) don't worry about the dwarf variety. I keep mine pruned to about head level. It is a favorite food for rabbits and can be counted on when there isn't other forage. I also know people plant it over their chicken runs for the chooks to catch fallen fruit (and the bugs it attracts).

I think kiwi might be too aggressive (I've seen them out of control and it reminds me of kudzu). persimmon would be great but I have only seen large trees, not sure if there are dwarf versions. I like the idea of lingonberry, more blueberries, and serviceberry. Witch hazel is a wonderful plant to have around but again I'm not sure if they will get too big?

We're using grey water to water the apricot and a few other high-water-demand trees, and don't want to plant an almond, with similar type fruit and diseases, too close to the apricot, and won't have another grey water drainage to use. Processing almond is also a bit more work than I'd like to do, and we're not the biggest fans of almonds, either. While we are planting back natives in other parts of the property that are useful to wildlife and not to us (native Holly, for example) this area is zone zero to zone one for close household use, and we want to use things that will benefit us the most. We're leaving a few redbud that haven't grown much the last 2 years as they seem to be mature at a smaller size and not a risk for home damage if they fall. We're also leaving a few large oaks that should be mature and wouldn't reach the house if they fell. (Knock on wood). We are terracing to protect the slopes and hold on to water for the fairly rocky soil, which we are improving slowly with compost as we go. We're likely going to leave this earth before our disabled son, and he will be alone. We're trying to plan for a space he can maintain himself and feed himself with minimal income and outside assistance. We just want to get things right the first time.

Maybe consider black locust tree. They grow fast and are good for erosion. They can get big but you can coppice the wood for fire wood, chop and drop, tool handles, fence posts, ect.. the flowers are edible too. Autumn olive is another good one but is technically an invasive. I put them on my property in areas where they won’t be in the way if they start to get out of hand. I like the berries and so do my chickens (but like with all birds, they will spread the seeds)

We just took down several autumn olive as it is invasive. Also fighting Japanese honeysuckle, and a few other invasives. We're trying to re-wild the lowest, most distant parts of our property. As I recall, locust is a very hard wood, is that right? We may have space for it further out, but don't want to destroy chainsaws on something we have to constantly cut back to keep it from falling on the house, office, or critter pens and sheds. Also we're needing to keep things low maintenance. My mother may be with us 1 or 15 more years (who knows, just lost dad at 64), husband and I aren't spring chickens, and son is disabled.

Eino Kenttä wrote:What about other nut trees?..., Pinus pumila, which is a shrub. Its nuts are smaller than those of other species, but it might be worth considering.

This looks like a lovely plant, but the cones look too small to provide usable seeds? I can't find any resources on culinary or medicinal use for this? I may plant it just for stabilization, but I am looking for useful and non invasive closest to home.