got land - now what?

I just bought a 1.5 acre property, but behind the house is about .75 acres of land that is mostly cleared with a few trees and garden patch. The property is surrounded by mature trees which block out a lot of sun, and there is a bit of a slope leading towards the back corner of the yard.

I'm allowed 6 chickens, so I'm hoping to get those in the spring, but I'm overwhelmed by how many decisions I have to make and how permanent they all feel, especially swales! I want to create a bit of a 'food forest' but without experience I don't know what I'm doing. It doesn't help that one resource says apples and black walnuts are compatible but others say it's not.

I bought Gaia's Garden to learn more, but it doesn't give much insight to my particular location (Eastern Ontario)

Should I try getting fruit trees in now? Should I spend a year getting a feel for the land first?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Welcome to Permies, Taylor! And congrats on getting a little land!

Gaia's Garden is supposed to help you think up your own solutions rather that give you specific plans. I'm glad to have read it, but didn't really come away feeling like it was particularly actionable.

You can start planning where your little henhouse will go and get it built. You can decide if you're going to want biggish things -- hugel mounds, a greenhouse, garden sheds, where they're going to go. As for swales, do you need them? They get talked up a lot but they're only needed where they're needed.

How happy are you to experiment vs. the need to get it right he first time? I'm planting apples and walnuts near each other -- I suspect juglone fears are overblown, but if I'm wrong, I just won't get apples. I'll get apples from other parts of the yard.

Taylor McRae wrote:Should I try getting fruit trees in now? Should I spend a year getting a feel for the land first?

Honestly, those are both good advice. Planting seeds now is more my speed so that's what I did and now I'm doing everything around those who are thriving. I'm more limited in where I can drop a greenhouse or put in a little rye field but at least I didn't wait three years to get my apples and currants growing.

You might want to get "The sustainable Vegetable Garden" by John Jeavons and Carol Cox.

This book is great for beginners.

I'm still figuring out this website so hopefully this replies to Christopher Weeks, lol, or is it just a thread?

Thanks for responding.

Gaia's Garden has been very helpful! I can hardly put the book down. It will just take trial and error to apply to my own situation and I wish there were a more black and white answers!

Since there is a bit of a slope, I thought swales would be helpful. We do have dry periods in the summer so the less I have to manually water, the better. Is there any reason not to do them / better systems? I imagine a dense food forest wouldn't require as much watering, but I also want to grow some plots of wheat and whatnot.

I don't mind some experimenting but it would be a shame to lose a couple years growth on a tree if it had to be removed later, or a swale or hugel bed in the wrong location. Those seem like the big things, as well as the placement of the coop, but at least I will do that in the spring.

Anne Miller wrote:You might want to get "The sustainable Vegetable Garden" by John Jeavons and Carol Cox.

This book is great for beginners.

Thank you, I will check that out!

Taylor McRae wrote:Is there any reason not to do [swales]?

I garden on glacial till that won't support a puddle so swales don't do much for me. (I guess they'd present a little more edge, but they wouldn't slow and trap water.)

Congratulations on your new Home and welcome to Permies!

That's a wonderful size of a plot to start your foodforest dream on!

One of permaculture principles is Observe and (then) interact. Take the time to find out how the sun moves on your property through the seasons. What direction does the wind usually blow from? You could maybe tie some ribbons in a tree, bush or pole to have a visual about the wind as you're getting the feel of your place. When it rains, where does the water pool, or wash away quite quickly? That kind of observations will help you heaps as you're planning for future plantings and structures.

I find it useful to have a thick notebook to jot down ideas and experiments in. I'm also keeping an annual list of 'failures' which translate to learning moments.

Yes, I'd wait until spring with getting chicken. In the meantime you can plan where the coop (and the chicken run?) will go.
The direction of the coop and its distance to the main dwelling are worth thinking about. Ideally the entrance door of the coop would be to the east or west, avoiding the wind direction where most rain comes from. (South = summer sun heat, North = cold winter wind). You don't want to have the coop too far from the house (feeding, collecting eggs), but then again, if you're going to have a rooster, you don't want it to be too close either Make it as fox, rat and marten proof as possible.

I'd plant apple trees and mulberry trees together, and leave the walnut tree in its own 'island'. Then again, there's an apple tree right next to a walnut tree here at our place, planted or sprouted long before we came, and they're both doing quite well.

Start with your climate, soil and elevation. Those will determine what plants might do well at your place. You can also create micro climates to stretch those parameters a bit. Make lists about what you like to eat, what you find pretty, what you know for sure you want and what you might consider in the future.

There's a time for everything; trees do much much better when planted in autumn than if they're planted in the spring (or summer). But will it be this autumn or the next? Probably many autumns to come.
Start with what you know, then expand - the learning never ends!

I made a mistake with fruit trees at my previous place by not paying attention to the height the mature trees would be and bought three dwarf apple trees. Easy picking, but looking a bit funny on the 4000m2.

You'll find tons of helpful information here on Permies, explore the different categories of forums, experiment, engage and have fun!

honestly the best thing i did first year on new land was just plant one bed properly instead of trying to plan everything at once. by the end of the season you learn more about how the sun moves and where the wet spots are than any amount of measuring up front.

Nina Surya wrote:One of permaculture principles is Observe

I consider this principle one of the most important of all the principles.

Observing the sun is important.

My favorite observation is what happens when it rains.  When we lived in the city this was note so important because all the lots were graded.

Out in the country this is not the case.  We were luck that we chose the spot near our backdoor for the garden because a "river" runs right next to that spot when it rains.

Never would have guessed that...

We're coming toward equinox so that will be a great anchor point for your perception of the sun's path and process.  Come winter solstice it will be as far south as it will get and it will start moving back to its equinox position where it will land again in March, then you can guestimate how far north it will get for the warmer part of the year.  These things are important because it will allow you to sypher out how much shade different areas get at different times of year.

Winter is also a great time to see how water behaves on the property.  That way come spring you'll have some ideas of what areas tend to pool or pond, etc.  My growing space is much smaller than yours, but at first I planted everything in containers and that way I could move them around in my yard to experiment with placement as long as I needed to before understanding how the sun would lay, etc.  I have some raised beds now and am getting more, but I didn't get them until I understood how the sun lay in the yard at different times.

That's a great subject Riona is bringing up there! During the equinoxes you'll find true East and West, by the rising and setting Sun. And indeed, mid winter and mid summer you'll see the extremity points of the scope on the North and South axis the Sun travels during the year!
Fascinating stuff

Hi Taylor,
There are some fantastic ideas already shared. The observing first is good advice... but I tend to be impatient so I thought I would share one approach for impatient people :)

Imagine that you won 10 million dollars, but for some reason you have to stay on your property. Imagine that because of the money, you could buy and build all the stuff all at once. Any fencing, animals, trees, bushes, plants, flowers, greenhouses, gardens, ground work, and water features, etc. Where would it all go if you could just point and it appeared without needing to worry about money? What would the property look like if it was "done"? Put it down on paper... maybe use an overlay of a satellite image of the property or something. After you have put stuff in place on paper, start looking at efficiencies. Is the chicken food stored in or near the coop? Is there a place to get water close by so you don't have to haul it to the chickens and gardens? Is the compost pile near the garden? Is the garden near the chicken run, for feeding weeds and extras? Do you have to walk around the blackberry patch every time you go to the greenhouse?

I don't know all of what you want, so I'm just making up questions, but the idea is to get an overall picture before starting. Then you can start slow as time and money allows following the overall plan. It may change over time, but thinking it all out beforehand will really help down the road.