tractor suggestions

Frank Spezzano wrote:

Eric Hanson wrote:Frank,

Out of curiosity, how much is your 2 wheel tractor going to set you back?

Eric,  I believe I can get one in good condition for $1500 or less.  There seem to be a few floating around my area in New England.  The power barrow may be hard to find.  

Frank, you should talk to Joel at Earth Tools in Kentucky ((502) 484-3988). They manufacture a power barrow that fits the Grillo and BCS tractors, not as heavy duty as the CAEB, but will likely do the job. They may be able to tell you how to adapt their power barrow to a older Gravely like the one you are looking at.

James Whitelaw wrote:
Frank, you should talk to Joel at Earth Tools in Kentucky ((502) 484-3988). They manufacture a power barrow that fits the Grillo and BCS tractors, not as heavy duty as the CAEB, but will likely do the job. They may be able to tell you how to adapt their power barrow to a older Gravely like the one you are looking at.

I think I'll do that, James.  Their power barrow looks pretty stout and serviceable, and priced around $800.  Not bad at all.

I’m still on the fence re the power barrow, at least this year (I have an unpowered barrow that I can use), but while researching small dozers, specifically the Struck Magnatrac tractors, I came across their inexpensive “stone boat” attachment, basically a drag bar onto which you attached a 4 x 8 foot sheet of plywood, the purpose of which heavy objects can be wrestled onto the sled and dragged around. Similar to the sled in the photo I posted upthread, stone boats appear to have been around since the day.

Eric Hanson wrote:Frank,

Do you know if diesel was an option for the 2-wheel tractors you were looking at?  

Eric

I'm very late on this reply, Eric.  No, I don't think diesel's an option for the walk-behinds (Gravely) I'm considering.  I love diesel, too.  Farm truck is a 1997 F350 with the 7.3 Powerstroke.  Should outlast me.

I keep coming up with new things I could use that 4-wheel tractor we were discussing.  Set up with the loader on the front, and backhoe on the rear.  I'm wondering, now that the economy is really struggling from COVID-19, who's offering 0% financing.  If I could get a decent compact/utility setup with a payment under $300/month, I probably would.  

Frank,

As I seem to remember, JD is perpetually offering 0% financing, I think now for 5 years when buying new.  This gives you $18,000 to finance.  That could buy you a nice, smaller compact tractor, or if you had money to put down, you could either fit it out with more implements or go to a larger size.

There is a lot of debate on these forums about the suitability of a backhoe on one of these small tractors.  The problem is that although they are small, they are about as expensive as their larger cousins.  A subcompact tractor requires a backhoe that costs about $6k, before the sub frame and hydraulics.  Could you conceivably rent a backhoe or excavator when you need it and save the $6k+ for the new backhoe on the small tractor?

Anyways, just a thought,

Eric

Thanks, Eric.  Good info on financing.

The backhoe debate.  I know.  Of the multiple tractor-related tasks I'm interested in, probably the most extensive is re-building stone walls which entails disassembly and/or digging down at least a foot below grade.  Backhoe.  Then there's hugelkulture piles.  Preferably backhoe.  Digging out tree stumps.  Backhoe.  Scraping out invasive growth in "bouldery" terrain.  Backhoe.  So there's more than enough to justify getting it rather than regularly renting.  

I'm actually considering a 4wd loader/backhoe instead of a tractor with loader and backhoe.  I can cover all of my other farm duties with the Gravely walk-behind, so don't really need a 3-point hitch or PTO.  Thoughts?

Frank Spezzano wrote:Thanks, Eric.  Good info on financing.

The backhoe debate.  I know.  Of the multiple tractor-related tasks I'm interested in, probably the most extensive is re-building stone walls which entails disassembly and/or digging down at least a foot below grade.  Backhoe.  Then there's hugelkulture piles.  Preferably backhoe.  Digging out tree stumps.  Backhoe.  Scraping out invasive growth in "bouldery" terrain.  Backhoe.  So there's more than enough to justify getting it rather than regularly renting.  

I'm actually considering a 4wd loader/backhoe instead of a tractor with loader and backhoe.  I can cover all of my other farm duties with the Gravely walk-behind, so don't really need a 3-point hitch or PTO.  Thoughts?

I wish for a construction style loader/backhoe pretty regularly... I rely on a a variety of 3pt hitch implements for the 50HP especially the brush hog, no way to do without them for me without giving up on a number of things.

A fullsize loader/backhoe would do a *much* better job than my tractor at moving spoil by the bucket, and it would be practical to go use the backhoe for smaller jobs where driving the excavator is too slow, expensive, and risky(vandalism if left out there, breakdowns far from shop..) to be practical.

If you don't need largeish 3pt implements, a walk-behind and loader/backhoe combo sounds quite capable!

It could also be a medium term tool; maybe in a few years you are done most of the backhoe stuff and switch to a tractor...?

The backhoe debate is long and doesn’t seem to have a middle ground.  But whatever you guys decide, it is YOUR decision.  And I support your choice, whatever it is.  Different people have different requirements.  For me, it would be a expensive (but really, really cool) toy.  But one persons toy is another man’s tool.

Eric

I posted this backhoe link on another thread, but just in case others don't know about the all-in-one, ball-hitch towed small backhoes.  The one that is linked here is beefier than the Harbor Freight version and has been great on our small, flat farmstead (low rock issues, lots of clay and organic matter).

http://kwikwayblades.com/asst/pdf/DirtMaster_1019_vF_LR.pdf

Another reason to go older rather than new.




JD is the 1st but other tractors will follow suit if the lawsuit falls though.

Devin,

I love my JD, but the whole can’t-fix-own-tractor really bothers me.  And you are absolutely correct that other manufacturers are going to be close behind.

Eric

Devin Lavign wrote:Another reason to go older rather than new.


JD is the 1st but other tractors will follow suit if the lawsuit falls though.

Absolutely, Devin.

John Weiland wrote:I posted this backhoe link on another thread, but just in case others don't know about the all-in-one, ball-hitch towed small backhoes.  

Never seen that before, John.  Thanks.  Probably not the best choice for my situation, but good to hear it works well for you.

D Nikolls wrote:

A fullsize loader/backhoe would do a *much* better job than my tractor at moving spoil by the bucket, and it would be practical to go use the backhoe for smaller jobs where driving the excavator is too slow, expensive, and risky(vandalism if left out there, breakdowns far from shop..) to be practical.

If you don't need largeish 3pt implements, a walk-behind and loader/backhoe combo sounds quite capable!

It could also be a medium term tool; maybe in a few years you are done most of the backhoe stuff and switch to a tractor...?

Agreed, D.  On all of those points, including the last as the homestead evolves.

Let's see if this works.  Here's a photo (hopefully) of the Gravely pushing snow this past December.  I've got the rotary plow on today, turning over some new rows for the garden, and starting holes for fruit tree sapling.  For many things, my 6.6hp Gravely walk-behind does a great job.

Frank,

I have never had one so I cannot speak from experience but I think that 2 wheel tractors can be a great tool for numerous applications.  Your Gravely looks like it handled that snow quite well.  There was a time when I was clearing my woods of excessive deadfall after a tremendous storm.  One of the problems was the excessive blackberries that produced no fruit, only thorns.  My subcompact tractor was challenged for mobility in those confined conditions.  I gave serious thought to a 2-wheel tractor with either a brush mower or maybe even a flail mower.  For what it’s worth, I think that if you have to till, the rotary plow is your best option.

Nice looking machine,

Eric

Thanks, Eric.  Overall, I'm really pleased with the Gravely.  It's a 1968 model L8, and does a lot of things well.  On a small scale.  But back to my original post, it just doesn't have the oomph for some things, or the accessories for other things.  Although they made virtually every attachment imaginable for the old Gravely tractors, including a backhoe.  

You've been really helpful in helping me figure things out.  As D Nikolls suggested, the loader/backhoe combination with the walk-behind is probably the way to go for my property and priorities.  Will keep you all updated.

Frank,

Thanks for the kind remark.  If two wheel is what fits you, then who am I to say otherwise.  You Gravely looks nice.  I am afraid though that I cannot be terribly helpful on that particular brand.  I am much more familiar with Grillo and especially BCS thanks to earthtools.com.  I did look closely when I was clearing out brush in my woods that went mad after a storm that toppled let in sunlight that just wasn’t there before.  I mean there were wild raspberries and blackberries here and there, but they were scrawny growing in shade.  But give them sunlight and they grew like mad.

The difficult part for me was not that my JD subcompact could not do it by an extremely long shot.  The problem was that I had s little stream at the bottom—and I mean little, it was only about 2 feet wide by about 2’ deep—basically a 2x2’ trench, and unfortunately I just could not get that tractor to ford the stream—the tractor would get stuck the moment the wheels sank into the creek.

On the other side was about 1/2-1 acre of dense brush, some of which I cleared with machete, but was slow growing and laborious.  I gave serious thought to a 2-wheel tractor and making a little footbridge to get on the other side and clearing the opposite bank which was borderline too deep for even my small JD 2305.  Ultimately I cleared a small portion by machete but most of the opposite bank is still dense with thorny canes.

I drooled the most about a Diesel BCS 853.  Sadly, I can’t find a Diesel 2-wheel tractor right now, but those looked like ideal tools for the job I had planned.  Maybe someday I will consider again but it is not in the cards for me at the moment.  

Your set of tasks and the size of your land may make a 2-wheel the right machine for you. This is all terribly interesting to me please keep me updated as to your progress.  I will be very curious as to how things work out.

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Devin,

I love my JD, but the whole can’t-fix-own-tractor really bothers me.  And you are absolutely correct that other manufacturers are going to be close behind.

Eric

I like JD also, my grandfather worked for Deere and I have a JD 440 with backhoe.

https://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/grd/d/watkins-3-point-backhoe/7101427136.html

Nice thing about a tractor is you can have a backhoe,..
but you don't have to carry it around all the time.

Myself I'm looking for an allis chalmers WD45.
They were built in the 40s-50s and were one of the first with live PTO.
Using a separate hand clutch
That means you can stop the tractor and still have the PTO run.

 It didn't have live hydraulics,..
if you push in the foot clutch, the PTO and hydraulic pump stop.

But live hydraulics can be added to the crank nose.

Didn't come with a 3-point hitch but pretty easy to convert to one.

At around 4000 pounds, it's small enough to fit on a common 7000lb trailer.
The frame is separate from the engine,.. the engine isn't part of the frame.
So other engines can be swapped in,.. there is a video of one with a cummins 4BT pulling at the fair.

It has great online support but I think many old tractors have a bunch of really experienced people that love to help you get one running.

Lots of used parts available in my area.
New parts are still easy to find,.. some you might have to search for.
...and they aren't too spendy to begin with.

Eric Hanson wrote:Frank,

Thanks for the kind remark.  If two wheel is what fits you, then who am I to say otherwise.  You Gravely looks nice.  I am afraid though that I cannot be terribly helpful on that particular brand.  I am much more familiar with Grillo and especially BCS thanks to earthtools.com.  I did look closely when I was clearing out brush in my woods that went mad after a storm that toppled let in sunlight that just wasn’t there before.  I mean there were wild raspberries and blackberries here and there, but they were scrawny growing in shade.  But give them sunlight and they grew like mad.

The difficult part for me was not that my JD subcompact could not do it by an extremely long shot.  The problem was that I had s little stream at the bottom—and I mean little, it was only about 2 feet wide by about 2’ deep—basically a 2x2’ trench, and unfortunately I just could not get that tractor to ford the stream—the tractor would get stuck the moment the wheels sank into the creek.

On the other side was about 1/2-1 acre of dense brush, some of which I cleared with machete, but was slow growing and laborious.  I gave serious thought to a 2-wheel tractor and making a little footbridge to get on the other side and clearing the opposite bank which was borderline too deep for even my small JD 2305.  Ultimately I cleared a small portion by machete but most of the opposite bank is still dense with thorny canes.

I drooled the most about a Diesel BCS 853.  Sadly, I can’t find a Diesel 2-wheel tractor right now, but those looked like ideal tools for the job I had planned.  Maybe someday I will consider again but it is not in the cards for me at the moment.  

Your set of tasks and the size of your land may make a 2-wheel the right machine for you. This is all terribly interesting to me please keep me updated as to your progress.  I will be very curious as to how things work out.

Eric

How much can your FEL lift?

If strong enough, what about building a ford by placing logs in the ditch until up to bank height, with chain or straps beneath to allow removal after?

Probably you tried this, but I have had better luck crossing sketchy things going backwards, the larger rear wheels having a better angle to climb over a bank than the front ones.. i might even ford a rough spot with a 3pt implement slung under the FEL and hook it up on the far side, to improve rear ground clearance..

My old tractor was rated to 640 pounds, lifted that with ease, and once lifted slightly over 900 pounds.  I did look into building a bridge, but as I switched tractors, my new tractor is a bit limited in the woods.  Another issue is that the other side of the little stream has some dense trees and almost immediately goes into a steep climb.  A two wheel tractor would actually be more fitting, but for the moment I am tackling other tasks, such as gardening and making lots of mushrooms and mushroom compost.

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Brian makes a totally fair point about Yanmar Diesel engines.  A refurbished or used Yanmar tractor has real potential to be a very useful tractor and potentially can save you a bundle.

It is easier to go and buy a new model from a dealer lot, but if you keep your eyes open and look around, then you might well be able to find a great deal.

And just for reference sake, I am using JD specs simply because that is what I know.  Kubota has many fans as do New Holland, Bobcats and an increasingly large number of manufacturers.

Choose as you see is best and good luck!

Eric

Update on the tractor, and a question.  Friend with tractor wasn't able to help me out this spring.  Not the end of the world, but my pasture sure could've used some help, so decided to get back to looking for my own 4-wheel tractor.  Also had to lower my budget a bit because of several other projects, not the least of which is re-siding the house.  Really wanted something used but decent with a loader and backhoe, but finding that combination on a decent tractor, even used, was difficult.  So found a tractor w/loader bucket in good shape, and looking to add the backhoe at earliest opportunity.  Got a 1975 Ford 2000.  3-cyl. gas.  I like it, and think it'll work well for me, particularly as I add the implements that I need - backhoe, disc harrow, auger.  Maybe brushhog.  So that's the update on the tractor.  I would consider it a success, except ..... My Ford 2000 has the rear exhaust, not the vertical stack.  The problem with that, as you probably already know, is that muffler/pipe tend to get caught on stuff, especially saplings.  It took me about 10 minutes of back blading to lose the muffler and bend the pipe.  Novice mistake.  Replacement pipe found, and can get the muffler welded onto the new pipe.  Not a big problem to fix it, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem of the setup.  Been trying to find info on how/what's needed to change to a vertical pipe.  Thoughts?  Guidance?

Frank,

Congrats on the new tractor!

Regarding the exhaust, I know that some tractors have kits that allow for the vertical exhaust.  But if there is no kit, then a vertical exhaust will have to be fitted either alongside the hood of the tractor or hood will have to be cut to allow the exhaust through.

The exhaust pipe and muffler should be fairly easy to find.  My thought is to try to find a way to pipe the exhaust to the side so as to not interfere with the hood opening.

Eric

Congrats on the new tractor.

So, ummmh....

Is the Gravely for sale?  Asking for a friend.  

Eric Hanson wrote:Frank,

Congrats on the new tractor!

Regarding the exhaust, I know that some tractors have kits that allow for the vertical exhaust.  But if there is no kit, then a vertical exhaust will have to be fitted either alongside the hood of the tractor or hood will have to be cut to allow the exhaust through.

The exhaust pipe and muffler should be fairly easy to find.  My thought is to try to find a way to pipe the exhaust to the side so as to not interfere with the hood opening.

Eric

Thanks, Eric.  Will take a photo to post the next time I have the 2000 out of the garage.

Your thought makes sense, about piping the exhaust to the side, rather than interfering with the hood.  In my searching, I saw a short video of a larger Ford tractor that the owner had put a vertical stack onto by installing a "U" from the down-facing exhaust manifold (like mine has) so the exhaust was then facing "up", and then attached a vertical stack/muffler to the "U".  Seemed to work just fine.  I just need to make sure there's room for the "U" given the location of the loader rails.

Jack Edmondson wrote:Congrats on the new tractor.

So, ummmh....

Is the Gravely for sale?  Asking for a friend.  

Sorry, Jack.  The old Gravely is the sentimental, if underpowered, favorite.  Planning to keep it for smaller stuff.  If you want me to keep an eye out for a decent Gravely walk behind for your friend, happy to.  We get a few decent ones for sale on CL every year.

Frank,

A four wheel tractor and a two wheel tractor make a great combination.  I expect that you will get a lot of work done with those two machines.

Eric

steiner tractor parts has the exhaust pieces for the ford. ive looked into changing the one I have

Frank Spezzano wrote:... put a vertical stack onto by installing a "U" from the down-facing exhaust manifold (like mine has) so the exhaust was then facing "up", and then attached a vertical stack/muffler to the "U".  Seemed to work just fine.  I just need to make sure there's room for the "U" given the location of the loader rails.

Will you need a simple flap on the top of the exhaust to keep water out when its not operating?  Water in the "U" is probably not enough back pressure to keep it from starting but standing water in the exhaust system seems bad.

Now ... why doesn't my vertical stack have one?  Hmmm... I may have a task to complete....

bruce Fine wrote:steiner tractor parts has the exhaust pieces for the ford. ive looked into changing the one I have

Thanks, Bruce.  

Eliot Mason wrote:

Will you need a simple flap on the top of the exhaust to keep water out when its not operating?  Water in the "U" is probably not enough back pressure to keep it from starting but standing water in the exhaust system seems bad.

Now ... why doesn't my vertical stack have one?  Hmmm... I may have a task to complete....

Good point, Eliot.  Will definitely employ a rain flap.