Is charring really an effective treatment for ground preservation of wood?

It’s interesting reading the interpretation of the study from the OP. I read a lot of them and it’s true, they have to be read with some context. But this is particularly interesting because this was largely done before there was any vested interest in chemical treatment. I mean these posts and treatment tests were done in the 1950s! The more recent tests don’t even include ACQ which is the most common treatment. This is old and presumably less tainted data.

Additionally the posts in most of the study were the same type of wood in the same place. That removes a lot of variables. I really really actually like this study.

The most interesting thing- by far- in the data table in my opinion is that the Osage orange had no rotten posts - after 70 years! In freaking Oregon! Unbelievable! I planted a few hundred pretty close together to try to get some straight poles in maybe 20 years. This seems like the logical step for ground contact. I’m throwing in some black locusts seed this year in the “patch” because it’s awesome but we’ve had issues with borers that might limit the usage.

Well I'm not a trained pro or a PHD but I can tell you by experience that charring wood well help it last longer, the old people in the mountains of Tenn. did it all the time. They well tell you the spring is the best time to do it because the sapp  comes to the surface in the pine trees as the tree cools and remains there and acts as a barrier against water and some insects. I have seen this proven out over time and it does seem to work. But I will add this process seems to work much but on pine, ceder, white pines and trees that have type of sapp.  

Hey Rufus, when you say salt do you mean regular sodium chloride or sodium salt of boric acid (borax)?  I would think borax considering salt increases water retention, though I have read regular salt can be beneficial in preventing checks and shakes (cracks) when drying out green timber.

This is TRUE! ...for 1000's of years societies have used this method to preserve WOOD! But... never "hardwoods" because they do not burn easily & when they do burn, it is harder to scrap/clear the char away. So they use "Soft Woods" like Douglas or White Fir!

Most people don't understand the concept or know they don't have to burn & scrap it anymore with propane "Torches"... all they need to do is "Scorch It"!

The concept reason is simple; Scorching Opens the Grains & Destroys anything that leads to DRY ROT!

Yes... Dry Rot is caused by bugs/etc that eat the deteriorating wood... even under the surface of paint or coatings w/ minute pinholes, where water leaks in!

So now the idea w/ these high heat Propane Torches is to Blast it w/ Torches... enough to do what people have been doing for so long and not have to do more than Blacken it to raise the grain & penetrate into the wood to destroy anything that could lead to "Dry Rot" only! ...of course, creosote would do it for the part in the ground, but it's used primarily on things like Railroad Ties... etc to do the same thing!  ...yet today "Propane Blowtorches" do it cheaper, easier and it doesn't take forever... to do like burning it!

Scorch to Get Color Change on Soft Woods like Cedar, Douglass or White Fir and it's cheaper & better than any other method!  

Jay C. White Cloud wrote:焼きすぎ-  Yakisugi

焼き杉 - Shou-sugi-ban

Jumping in quoting an ancient post- excuse me for that. Being quite fluent in Japanese though I often feel obligated to improve the accuracy of translations. Excuse me for that too.

焼杉、焼きすぎ、焼き杉 - are all "yakisugi" this literally means "burnt cedar"
焼杉版 - is "shosugiban" this literally means "burnt cedar board"

Jay C. White Cloud wrote:Depending on the lineage, charring is just a side effect.  Carbon doesn't rot, but your observation about it being absorbent is good.  Now just think, you take a piece of Cedar or Locust wood, hold it over a fire  and slowly turn it, (one of many methods.)  It not only will char slightly, (you don't want to burn it per say,) but it "case hardens the wood too.  Now there even more steps, depending of style, but one that I have observed is you take a good wood oil, melt salt in it, then let the charred post bottom soak it all in, take it out let it dry, set it on fire quickly smother with sand or clay, repeat soaking.  Like I said, many methods, and as far as I know this is the first time this method has been put to print.  There is a lot of ancestral knowledge that Academics (myself included,) are just beginning to put to print, so much has been lost.

Hi Jay, I realize I'm resurrecting a 9 year old post - but I'm fascinated with this method of preserving.  I have actually never seen a video of anyone "slow cooking" the wood.  Everything I've seen on preserving using a raging hot fire or a rocket stove or a propane torch which very quickly chars the wood.

So I'm curious - does a quick burn and then sanding off the charcoal have the same affect as a slow burn?

The oil and salt dip is also very interesting.  Would there be any difference in dipping a just charred (hot) wood post into this (cold) mixture, or is it ideal to have the oil/salt mixture hot as well?

The possibilities are almost overwhelming. I've seen a few options mentioned:

oil/pine tar mix
oil/salt mix
motor oil/diesel mix (no thanks)

followed by
sand/clay mix (maybe sprinkled with boric acid for further insect control)

Theo Wolko wrote:
Hi Jay, I realize I'm resurrecting a 9 year old post - but I'm fascinated with this method of preserving.  I have actually never seen a video of anyone "slow cooking" the wood.  Everything I've seen on preserving using a raging hot fire or a rocket stove or a propane torch which very quickly chars the wood.

So I'm curious - does a quick burn and then sanding off the charcoal have the same affect as a slow burn?

The oil and salt dip is also very interesting.  Would there be any difference in dipping a just charred (hot) wood post into this (cold) mixture, or is it ideal to have the oil/salt mixture hot as well?

The possibilities are almost overwhelming. I've seen a few options mentioned:

oil/pine tar mix
oil/salt mix
motor oil/diesel mix (no thanks)

followed by
sand/clay mix (maybe sprinkled with boric acid for further insect control)

Good timing on the resurrection of the post, I have been working on something the last couple days in this vein.

There is one aspect to this that I haven't seen anyone mention which is the change in the literal caloric value of the wood.  The orange flame that comes off wood as it burns is removing hydrocarbons from the wood and lowering the caloric value.  If you let it go a long time, you just get the charcoal that is now burning with a carbon monoxide flame.  Simply charring the outside of the wood without heating it enough to release a lot of the internal wood gases FEELS to me like it is leaving a lot of residual food for wood-decay fungus that would be less accessible were the hydrocarbons removed.  Every energetic pathway whether it is burning or digestion requires available energy, and putting a slight veneer of char over a lot of available energy seems like it might help but not to the full extent.  I gotta go ask the fun-guys about this in their forum, I'd like to know.

I was charring some pieces with a blowtorch and it just felt like there must be a better way, so I put together a little hat for my camp stove and that works really well.  I leave each section exposed to the flames for about 30 sec, so it takes about 10 minutes to do a six foot board.  However, a lot of flame comes off the board itself, and as I feed it through I let it burn itself out on the far side.  This is hopefully deep-heating the board enough to release a lot of the hydrocarbons and potential fungi-food.

I have a question as well.  I am using scrap boards from a tree that has been dead-standing for five years and they are partially rotten.  The idea with yakisugi-ing them is to arrest the decay and extend the useable life.  The structural strength shouldn't be an issue if they don't decay further, so charring seemed like a viable option.  Does anyone have experience trying to salvage partially rotten boards in this way?  Is this possibly a low-entropy use for dead wood in non-structural applications?

Yeah I’ve  seen vids  on bug out shelters, or a cabin in the woods videos, and they all seem to char 4 ft or to the frost line of the log

Hi Jay, I am reading this thread years after it was made.  One thing that stood out to me is that you built a Ger frame . . . with Ash I think you said.    I am also building a ger frame and would love to ask you some questions about your experience / process.  Maybe with private messages?  
thanks,
Steven

Best I can tell you is my grandfather charred cedar fence post in the 1920’s and the fence was still standing in the 1950’s when my grandmother sold the farm because my grandfather died.

Bill
billg949@gmail.com