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Unbelievable cold for over two months now - lessons

Jay Angler

steward

Posts: 12433

Location: Pacific Wet Coast

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posted 1 year ago

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Kaarina Kreus wrote:In the morning I found out that I am the lucky owner of a 4 gallon ice cube with several pants in it for aesthetic effect. (In the white bucket)

Hmmm... my take-away lesson. Only do winter laundry in a metal bucket (or my large metal stock pot). That way I can pop it on the wood-stove to melt!

Silver lining: at least it added a bit of warmth to the house overnight as the water changed phase!

Hang in there - I'd have had to pack it in much sooner, as I turn into a human icicle far quicker than you.

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Kris Winter

pioneer

Posts: 68

Location: Inland NW 2300' Zone4b frost pocket valley mouth river sand

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posted 1 year ago

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Sending warm wishes and good luck with your wool insulation company. We had -25 to -30 several nights last week and there were many interesting occurrences. I wanted to add my vote for wall hangings and tapestries. I once had a roommate who "ran hot" and liked to keep the house around 50f/10c in the winter. He resented my space heater use, too, so to limit it I paneled all my room's walls in quilts. It cut the need for the space heater quite a bit, it was warmer overall, and it was very colorful.

"I think that I shall never see A poem as lovely as a tree." Joyce Kilmer

Thekla McDaniels

gardener

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Location: Western Slope Colorado.

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posted 1 year ago

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The wool guy will be here soon, I know, and maybe you have replaced the board, or draped the opening with plastic or tarp or woven wool blankets but here’s another thought:

Any way you can bring the chickens into the house to share their heat? Or borrow a couple dogs?

It seems so long since you discovered the missing board , but it wasn’t! The post says one day ago, and wool guy coming next week! I’m counting the days and sending you warmth as I head out to the sauna.

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞

Best luck: satisfaction

Greatest curse, greed

Carmelo Panucci

Posts: 76

Location: Talkeetna AK

posted 1 year ago

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A 200sqft house should stay very warm with a small stove. It sounds to me that you have negative pressure issues. The bigger the fire the colder right? Ok. . Your stove must have plumbed air intake to it or else it draws from the cracks in the house. Pretty easy fix and a world of difference in comfort and wood consumption. Make the fix.

Carmelo Panucci

Posts: 76

Location: Talkeetna AK

posted 1 year ago

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Fresh air from the outside plumbed with steel pipe to the inside of the stove. Cut a hole in the stove as big as your first and connect to the outside of your house with a pipe the same size.

Carmelo Panucci

Posts: 76

Location: Talkeetna AK

posted 1 year ago

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There maybe an intake port located on the stove already. Could be on the back or underneath.

Thekla McDaniels

gardener

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Location: Western Slope Colorado.

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posted 1 year ago

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I LOVE chickens, their many noises, and all their chickennesses …. a visit to the chicken house is a bit of exercise, fun, and it lifts my spirits. I always come away from the chicken house smiling! I guess that was obvious by my questioning feasibility of bringing the chickens into the house… 😄 🐓🐓🐓

and for me, if a trip to the chickens is a burden rather than a recreational or social occasion, then I figure that if the chickens have all the (warm) liquid water they want twice a day it won’t hurt them to have their water frozen for most of the time.

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

Best luck: satisfaction

Greatest curse, greed

Jane Mulberry

master pollinator

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Location: East of England/ Northeast Bulgaria

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posted 11 months ago

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Kaarina, I'm thinking of you and sending prayers. I admire your resilience and also can't help being a little concerned at what you're dealing with there.
How are things?

I'm only 64! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

Kaarina Kreus

pollinator

Posts: 528

Location: Finland, Scandinavia

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posted 11 months ago

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Hi, some updates. The wool turned out to be imposdible to spray. Well, never mind. I will do it another way once spring comes.

I am doing OK, despite the house mostly being below freexing. I found out, that even olive oil does freeze, but honey does not!!

it is really amazing, how your body adapts. And the mind! Three months ago, I would have called the house cold if it was close to freezing point. Now I am pleased that t is luckily just above freezing, yippee 😄

It has been really useful to test what my real actual limits are. I have found that as long as you r bed is warm and you have a stove for cooking and heating water, you are OK. The rest is just adaptation.

Whathever you are, be a good one.
___________________________________

Cécile Stelzer Johnson

pollinator

Posts: 1354

Location: zone 4b, sandy, Continental D

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posted 11 months ago

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Kaarina Kreus wrote:Hi, some updates. The wool turned out to be imposdible to spray. Well, never mind. I will do it another way once spring comes.

I am doing OK, despite the house mostly being below freexing. I found out, that even olive oil does freeze, but honey does not!!

it is really amazing, how your body adapts. And the mind! Three months ago, I would have called the house cold if it was close to freezing point. Now I am pleased that t is luckily just above freezing, yippee 😄

It has been really useful to test what my real actual limits are. I have found that as long as you r bed is warm and you have a stove for cooking and heating water, you are OK. The rest is just adaptation.

Hang in there, Kaarina. In Central Wisconsin, we are just getting out "mid-January thaw". [Do you get a mid January thaw where you are?]

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

Thekla McDaniels

gardener

Posts: 3234

Location: Western Slope Colorado.

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posted 11 months ago

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Kaarina Kreus wrote:Hi, some updates. The wool turned out to be imposdible to spray. Well, never mind. I will do it another way once spring comes.

I am doing OK, despite the house mostly being below freexing. I found out, that even olive oil does freeze, but honey does not!!

it is really amazing, how your body adapts. And the mind! Three months ago, I would have called the house cold if it was close to freezing point. Now I am pleased that t is luckily just above freezing, yippee 😄

It has been really useful to test what my real actual limits are. I have found that as long as you r bed is warm and you have a stove for cooking and heating water, you are OK. The rest is just adaptation.

I’m so disappointed about the wool, Kaarina, and thanks for letting us know.

I certainly admire your spirit! This is really becoming quite an experience! Self knowledge and self discovery perhaps, I leave defining it to you, and wonder how your perspective will be altered by this winter!

I imagine that your physical health is benefiting from these conditions. You’re probably getting cold shock proteins, hormetic stress (beneficial challenge to your systems), probably developing brown adipose tissue (burns energy to create warmth). Probably immune system is being strengthened. I don’t think that’s all the physiological benefits, just the few at the top of my mind.

Best luck: satisfaction

Greatest curse, greed

Thekla McDaniels

gardener

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Location: Western Slope Colorado.

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posted 11 months ago

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Kaarina,

Did you see this thread?

https://permies.com/wiki/237958/permaculture/Paul-idea-documentary-thingy-heat

Paul has requested video of various heating situations and systems. Maybe you have something going on he would want to include…

check it out! he’s offered to pay per minute of video included in the final documentary.

you might have the BEST before and after if he waits for your modifications and next year’s winter!

possibly you could show some dos and don’ts, and what to watch out for when having a contractor.

just a thought

Best luck: satisfaction

Greatest curse, greed

Ra Kenworth

Posts: 521

Location: Iqaluit, Nunavut zone 0 / Mont Sainte-Marie, QC zone 4a

posted 11 months ago

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Reflective fabric cloth is very good at keeping heat in or out, although a space must be maintained.

Think of wrapping the top of a cast iron pan with foil: the air space keeps the heat in.You can touch the foil on the top.

Essentially, a reflective fabric on top of a light fluffy blanket should work the same way and keep you way warmer.

Another way to use it, is hanging it to cover doors and windows. If you already have blankets on them, the shiny fabric is between the room and the blanket.

I think you will always find use for this fabric in winter wear as well, so it is worth considering even if you repurpose where it goes later, the wearable flexible reflective fabric being more multi purpose than rigid house type reflective film. However, you might decide to research the house reflective version this coming summer as well, to put in the attic depending on how you tackle your problem.

When toughing the cold I found reflective fabric made a huge difference.

If you are not sure how it works, I can post you some links. You need to understand the air space.

The first year I had my homestead the north wind blew through the walls badly. House wrap / tyvek helped a lot. My house is old and was built by amateurs (they cut the main beam later, but thankfully a small house as well so a small problem). I agree: wrapping the house will help a lot.

Keep us updated if you can, so we know you are safe!

Charles Wilder

Posts: 3

posted 11 months ago

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I find myself very curious about the construction of your home. Thanks for putting up with it. The walls do appear to be a single solid timber. If it’s 15cm thick that would be an R value of 5.6, where I live in the United States, Wisconsin (cold but probably warmer than you) the minimum code required r value for an exterior wall is 30. Was this a permitted residential structure? The gap that you show in your photo is an eve vent and is unfortunately necessary to keep the roof cold and prevent ice damming. Usually it’s fine though because the living space is sealed and insulated from the cold attic above. You might have a design KW required to heat your home as constructed somewhere in the building/permitting paperwork. If not you could find a home heat loss calculator online (builditsolar.com has one I like) and enter everything you know about your home construction in to see what kind of power you need to heat it. You can modify it with planned insulation projects to see where you get the best return. Blown in in the ceiling like you have planned will be a total game changer if there is currently nothing there, but if you already have some ceiling insulation it might not be a magic bullet.

A smallish stove like that should kick out 5 kw easily, and do 10 kw when you’re around to push it. A big stove could maybe do double that if you are willing to tear through a lot of wood. Long term you will be better off modifying the house to fit the stove you have, even if it means covering the inside or outside of those beautiful Timbers with house wrap (has to be plastic) and some additional insulation (could potentially be some kind of wool) Honestly I’m really surprised it doesn’t do a better job for a small place, but the heat loss numbers will tell you where you stand after the major build issues are fixed.

The sill plate where the wood wall meets the foundation might be another spot to check for gaps. This one you can fill with whatever you can find.

Good luck! Fantastic project and dedication.

Romina Naito

Posts: 8

Location: Stockholm, Sweden

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posted 8 months ago

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John Weiland wrote:

Kaarina Kreus wrote: ..... I deserve some kind of human-version-of-solar-bear badge, don't you think?

Most definitely! polar bear badge and loads of blueberry pie!

This is April 2024 and here in Sweden (Scandinavia) we are having a cold Spring…still minus temperatures and some snow, although not settling. I wonder how you are doing Kaarina in Finland? and the chickens?

I had a simmilar situation but it was rental and I moved after 2 winters. I slept with duvets plus a minus 20 sleeping bag, it was always cold. Miss the chickens though, they had to stay.

I hope we hear from you and how you plant to insulate the cottage, or have done, if you are going to go for a rocket mass heater, etc. Sending hugs from not so far away!

Joylynn Hardesty

master pollinator

Posts: 4957

Location: Due to winter mortality, I stubbornly state, zone 7a Tennessee

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posted 2 months ago

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Karina, what did you wind up doing for insulation to prepare for the new winter?

We're expecting our first freeze, so I thought of you.

'What we do now echoes in eternity.' Marcus Aurelius
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Douglas Alpenstock

master pollinator

Posts: 4988

Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b

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posted 2 months ago

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^^ What Joylynn said. Share your winter plan with us!

Kaarina Kreus

pollinator

Posts: 528

Location: Finland, Scandinavia

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posted 1 month ago

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Hi! An update.
We opened up the floor and ceiling. The insulation had been done real shoddily so that was worth doing. There were huge GAPS in insulation. Like an insulation panel having been cut 4 inches too short! It was an enormous undertaking (even in a tiny house like this), but I am happy with the decision to tear all shitty work down and do it anew. Patching a bad job leads to chaos.

I lived several months in a shed, as the house had to be emptied. But it was summer so no worries there. As I had a great carpenter, we also finished the sauna and built a harvest kitchen (it's being finalised now)

The house immediately felt different. No draughts. No moist chilly air on cold autumn mornings. Gee, when I boil a cauldron of water, the moisture fogs the windows! And it stays warm.

Of course, this is no zero energy house, but it stays nice and cosy even now when the temps are around 10°F.

I am grateful for the hardship last year though. It was no joke living in a house with inner temperatures around ten degrees, but I needed it. Now nothing scares me. I feel enormous gratitude for destiny throwing this challenge at me and proud of myself that I stayed put and managed.

IMG_20240807_131204.jpg

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IMG_20240803_100125.jpg

Whathever you are, be a good one.
___________________________________

Cécile Stelzer Johnson

pollinator

Posts: 1354

Location: zone 4b, sandy, Continental D

383

posted 1 month ago

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Proud of you for sticking it out Kaarina. Well done, and now you know that nothing can grind you down. Bravo!

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

Thekla McDaniels

gardener

Posts: 3234

Location: Western Slope Colorado.

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posted 1 month ago

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Bravo Kaarina, and thank you for the update.

I bought a marginal structure in July, on 6 acres. I have been working hard to clear out trash etc, all that goes with taking on the deferred maintenance, filth and dilapidation of a disinterested and aging owner.

My heating will be adequate for this winter, now that I know the stove is designed for burning coal, and I have brought in a ton. Plus 2 cords of wood. It’s humbling though, I am one of the greenest people I know, and I am burning coal! I need the time to discover the pros and cons of this property, and consider how I want to modify it.

The satisfaction you report at having stayed put, and the changes you made are SOOO encouraging ❤️

Thank you thank you thank you

Best luck: satisfaction

Greatest curse, greed

Kaarina Kreus

pollinator

Posts: 528

Location: Finland, Scandinavia

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posted 1 month ago

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Thekla - waiting and seeing before rushing to do anything is a great strategy. All too often we have visions about how we are going to live in a new place, but reality turns out very different. The location of different functions you envisioned turns out impractical, your storage needs aren't what you initially envisioned.

Usually these are small things, like where to keep tools or feed; close to the driveway or back there by the henhoise. Or where is the practical place for drying laundry; in the sunny spot far away or right next to your wash station. I find waiting and doing things for a while quickly shows your true needs.

You can tolerate almost anything for a while until you figure out what really suits you best!

Congratulations on the property ❤️

Whathever you are, be a good one.
___________________________________

Thekla McDaniels

gardener

Posts: 3234

Location: Western Slope Colorado.

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posted 1 month ago

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Thank you for your encouragement!

Best luck: satisfaction

Greatest curse, greed

James MacKenzie

Posts: 138

Location: eastern cape breton, 6b

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posted 1 month ago

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Kaarina - this was an insane post to read - you are top survivalist bar none!!

just as a bump - it is not nearly so cold here in cape breton but winter brings a lot of wind... i renovated my old "homeade" bungalow (probably built drunk by prev owner.. srsly) in 3 sections in the last 3 years..

proper insulation and having NO DRAFTS makes all the difference.. i can keep it warm with half the effort - even with cat doors..

insulate insulate seal...yay!

your improvement looks fantastic - here is to a better winter for you! cheers!

James MacKenzie

Posts: 138

Location: eastern cape breton, 6b

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posted 1 month ago

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Thekla McDaniels wrote:Thank you for your encouragement!

hang in there - it can def be done - cheers!

Too many men are afraid of being fools - Henry Ford. Foolish tiny ad:

GAMCOD 2025: 200 square feet; Zero degrees F or colder; calories cheap and easy

https://permies.com/wiki/270034/GAMCOD-square-feet-degrees-colder