New Permies Overalls Icon

Actually, when I put those icons in context you can see the overalls don't pop at all and really, even that denim "p" could go simpler:

OK, last one really! I think the yellow p and dashes evokes denim with yellow stitching but I need someone with "fresh eyes" to check.

I'm kind of in this mode because I've been working on my labels for my dried shiitakes. What's that? You want to see them? Why sure.

It might be helpful if somebody (with better internet skillz than me) would post some of these choices in tiny format, next to the twitter, Facebook, pinterest, etc. icons.

Try to see the thing in its planned habitat, with its usual neighbors. . . . It's easy to get hung up on details when you are looking at an enlarged version.

And, is it true that when you mouse over one of these buttons, you get information about where it is going to take you?? I'm afraid I'm not all that helpful because I never use these things.

Julia, I'm totally confused because I think I did what you suggested before you suggested it!

Yes, if you "hover" the mouse/pointer over the icon a little text box appears explaining the icon. Which leads to a pretty pertinent question. What will happen when someone clicks on the permie favicon? Is it just a link to permies?

I think the yellow on blue denim really pops. I like it! Just need to adjust the placement of the "p" a bit.

Be aware that I posted the 'p' icon more as a reminder of existing simple ideas,
and certainly not as a design that Paul's into-or even seen for ages!
I'm just a bit worried that I've headed this thread in a completely different direction kinda by mistake

Just a start of an idea... only had about 15 minutes to attempt this and I think with some simplification and some work on the colors this might be a solution.

Cj Verde wrote: Which leads to a pretty pertinent question. What will happen when someone clicks on the permie favicon? Is it just a link to permies?

It will lead to their (each website) individual thread on permies.com.. So sort of like a facebook page.

Ryan Skinner wrote:Just a start of an idea...

What is it?

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

Cj Verde wrote: Which leads to a pretty pertinent question. What will happen when someone clicks on the permie favicon? Is it just a link to permies?

It will lead to their (each website) individual thread on permies.com.. So sort of like a facebook page.

Gottcha.

Cj Verde wrote:

Ryan Skinner wrote:Just a start of an idea...

What is it?

Guess it isn't that great of an idea LOL... Supposed to be just one clasp on the pair of overalls. If that wasn't clear then it is a complete failure.

Ryan Skinner wrote:

Cj Verde wrote:

Ryan Skinner wrote:Just a start of an idea...

What is it?

Guess it isn't that great of an idea LOL... Supposed to be just one clasp on the pair of overalls. If that wasn't clear then it is a complete failure.

It doesn't fit the "simple" theme.

Ray Cecil Iii wrote:

Ryan Skinner wrote:

Cj Verde wrote:

Ryan Skinner wrote:Just a start of an idea...

What is it?

Guess it isn't that great of an idea LOL... Supposed to be just one clasp on the pair of overalls. If that wasn't clear then it is a complete failure.

It doesn't fit the "simple" theme.

Yeah... Probably shared too early.

Ryan Skinner wrote:Supposed to be just one clasp on the pair of overalls.

I do see it now but it did need an explanation. Also, I don't think I can see it at the size it would need to be (32x32).
Despite the fact that I did post a few ideas, I don't think they're actually seeking new ideas.

Hey Cj, I'm sorry. I think I must have left the page open for an hour or two and then posted my bit without refreshing to see what you had done. That's got to be what happened, because I swear I hadn't seen that!

Great minds, and all that. . . .

J Hampshire wrote:

I think it's overcomplicated and under values the message. The stitching isn't necessary to convey what it is. It should be straight on, not cocked to the left. You have to look at it from the POV of people who have no idea what permaculture is. That logo will not register with them. Now granted, if you're going for a logo that's to only be understood by the 'in' crowd, it's a good start but still needs refinement. But if I'm Joe Ninetofive and I see that; I'm not sure if it's a face, a monster or what. Think about city folk who literally don't even know what overalls are. These are the types of things you have to think about, dependent upon what type of demos you're trying to reach. Even then, most people will simply assuming 'farming' and not the higher level thinking of what permaculture really is. I think the overalls as a representation of the importance of what's going on here comes off a little hokey. When I think permaculture I think: vegetation, animals, circles, design, land, harvest, etc. In my mind I see the letter "P" very prominent, with integration of a circle somehow, and a representation of everlasting vegetation by design. Now that sounds like a lot, but through whittling and distillation of ideas it can be done.

Logo development is incredibly difficult and frustrating. Never settle. Credentials; Former graphic designer, social media director/brand manager of nearly a decade.

J,

Thanks for the response. Sorry it has taken me a while to reply. Anyway, here are the problems with a P icon:

#1- There are about 6 other big websites that use a P for their icon.
#2- I don't really think that a P shouts permaculture to people more than overalls do. The letter P could stand for absolutely anything.
#3- A simple P is quite boring. I chatted with Paul on the phone today and we discussed the P icon and I brought up everyone's points and he said he understood the concern but along with the fact that the simple P is boring, he pointed out that if we did have the P icon we would have to reconfigure our entire site to have all the fonts matching that P..

To me, at least the overalls symbolize farming/building/gardening. Overalls are what we wear when we do permaculture things. I can't really think of anything else that encompasses it all that well. I mean even if we did have a tree, that STILL only represents one part of permaculture, growies. So I really don't think there is going to be one symbol that encompasses the enormous variety of permaculture stuff better than the overalls.

BUT that doesn't mean paul is DEAD SET on the overalls.. If he saw something better, we would use it. But the current overalls icon is the best we have right now. If you would like to throw something together that represents everything that you said in this message, that would be lovely. That would be so awesome actually.

Cj Verde wrote:Actually, when I put those icons in context you can see the overalls don't pop at all :

Cj, could you do this experiment with a version of the overalls icon that has the white overalls and a color in the background. Like maybe this one:



The reason the one you used does not "pop" is because it is not the same style as the others, i.e. the white and one other color. This is why I was having people make the icons two-tone, with white overalls. Or it could be white background, blue overalls.

Jonathan Krohn wrote:
I fully agree that SVG format would make this a lot easier.

She provided me with a SVG.

Does anyone want me to send this to them so that they can play around with it?

Nicole Alderman wrote:

I do "know a guy" (my brother) who is a graphic artist and can make this a lot cleaner and in whatever colors you want... and do it in just a few minutes. If the powers that be decide what they want, I can ask him .

I think right now we are just trying to get as many people pumping out color options as possible so if you wanted to send him on over to this thread and he could mock up a few different color schemes based on what we have so far, that would be awesome!

Myke Smith wrote: I suppose if this logo was specifically to promote Paul then that would be a good logo. But if the logo is to be seen and recognized as permaculture by the masses on social media, it may not register with most people.

I mean, the icon WILL direct people to permies.com, which IS paul's site. So it is technically promoting paul.. But we obviously want it to represent permaculture.. But I just don't see a better option than overalls, as I explained in my response to J Hampshire.

BUT if someone wants to come up with something they think is better, they are 100% free to do that! We are open to improvements. Someone just has to create them.

Ray Cecil Iii wrote:Uhhhhhh.....has anybody ever thought of using the permies.com sickle with a upper case "P" I mean, if we are trying to advertise Paul Wheaton and his brand of permaculture than by all means use the overalls. But if it is supposed to represent permies.com then why not use the permies.com sickle that we can all see at the top of this page?

It is supposed to represent permies.com, which is paul's site.. Soo, basically the icon needs to represent both..

The sickle is an idea paul and I didn't get to discuss today on our phone chat so I will bring it up the next time I talk to him. The whole associating it with socialism might be an issue. Who knows..

Why not use the sythe? It doesn't have and connotations that I know of, and it's already in use on the forums. It would make sense, I think, to match the icon to the site, just like facebook's icon matches it's site. Here's a sloppy attempt at using the sythe and the P for an icon. I think it looks fine in it's large incarnation. The tiny one, however, loses definiton and is harder to determine what it is... I used the same green as is on the forum's logo.

Cassie Langstraat wrote: I think right now we are just trying to get as many people pumping out color options as possible so if you wanted to send him on over to this thread and he could mock up a few different color schemes based on what we have so far, that would be awesome!

Right after I posted that, I remembered he was vacationing in Russia with his wife. Doh! He won't be back for another week or so

Here it is in context, as well as a little more cleaned up.

Is it supposed to be 25x25 or 32x32?

Here's the overall icon in the same olive color.

I really like the "P" and the scythe though I have no idea how recognizable that would be to a pleb.
Meanwhile I still see a monster instead of overalls! I finally figured out which monster too:

Could I get teh SVG of the overalls... I would like to mess with color variations

Nicole Alderman wrote:Is it supposed to be 25x25 or 32x32?

Both. The typical dimensions are 32x32 but some websites use smaller icons so we need to make sure it looks fine in all sizes.

Ryan Skinner wrote:Could I get teh SVG of the overalls... I would like to mess with color variations

Yes Ryan, I PMed you.

Cj Verde wrote:I really like the "P" and the scythe though I have no idea how recognizable that would be to a pleb.

I don't think any icon we could possibly make is going to be instantly recognizable as permaculture to be honest. At least not at the beginning. I mean even if it was a tree, or a leaf, or a flower.. People aren't going to see that and instantly think permaculture, especially because most "normies" don't even know what permaculture is so how could we possibly expect them to recognize a massively diverse movement with millions of different facets by looking at one tiny symbol?

However, once it gets widely used, I think it will gain recognizability. Before twitter was popular I am sure no one associated a little blue bird with a social media website. In the same way, nothing we make is going to be recognizable as permaculture to people right off the bat. It is going to take a bit of time and use before people recognize it. However, after a while, people will keep seeing it everywhere and go "Hey I keep seeing that little icon, what is it for?" Once they click it, Boom! We have infiltrated the "normies".!

So I think we need to stop worrying about if it completely embodies every aspect of permaculture because frankly I don't think that is going to happen, and I think it is holding us back from progressing with this project. It's less than an inch big.. We just need to accept that people are not going to recognize it at first so we can move forward.

I hope I am not coming off as harsh or unreceptive to people's feedback. I just have been working on this for a really long time and really want to make progress.

Meanwhile I still see a monster instead of overalls! I finally figured out which monster too:

I don't really think Paul cares if people think it looks like a monster. However, again, if you can think of something better, that would be amazing and we are not opposed to that!

Paul said one of the gappers has been patching his clothes with patches that resemble the apple from the apple tree on the playing cards. He thought maybe that could be an option? Although there is that one company that already has an Apple.. But theirs has a bite out of it. We could keep ours whole.. Just an idea. If someone wants to make it come to life that would be cool.

I tried to find the apple that was on the cards to work with that one. I think it looks like a cherry, though.... I don't know if I got the right apple, though, as I don't have the cards yet (they're on my Christmas list!). I used the tan of the permies forum for a background. I tried another apple, to see if that worked better. It's hard to get something eye-popping, though.

Since the most well-known icons are white with a colored background, I made a white apple with the permie's olive green for a background. It just makes sense to me to have the icon match the website. I would feel a little bewildered if I clicked on an icon that was designed one way, and it took me to a website that looked entirely different. My husband saw me working on the apple and said, "Aren't there laws against using an apple for your icon? I don't think you can do that." I like the fact that permies already has apples on the forums--it makes the apple a little more iconic, and permaculture *is* largely about food forests.

Anyway, here's some (hurriedly put together) images to give you some ideas of what an apple for an icon could look like.... I can fiddle with them in whatever way you want!

I personally like the last one the best. BUT like you said, the regular red apples that people get for good posts are sort of a signature of permies.. So that might be better. Other people's thoughts?

Here it is with a red background, as well as red with a tan apple. Is that better, or would it be better to maintain the apple as red?

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

Cj Verde wrote:Actually, when I put those icons in context you can see the overalls don't pop at all :

Cj, could you do this experiment with a version of the overalls icon that has the white overalls and a color in the background. Like maybe this one:



The reason the one you used does not "pop" is because it is not the same style as the others, i.e. the white and one other color. This is why I was having people make the icons two-tone, with white overalls. Or it could be white background, blue overalls.

I just saw this, so here's some of the logos in context. Does that help?

Cassie Langstraat wrote:Before twitter was popular I am sure no one associated a little blue bird with a social media website.

No, but you could associate a little blue bird with the word "tweet." I don't think most people would associate the image of a scythe with the word scythe (much less the word permaculture) because they don't know what a scythe looks like.

I do still like the p & the scythe best but do you know what I think when I look at them all in context? I think, "wow, the yahoo and gmail favicons are horrible!!!"

Cj Verde wrote:No, but you could associate a little blue bird with the word "tweet." I don't think most people would associate the image of a scythe with the word scythe (much less the word permaculture) because they don't know what a scythe looks like.

I do still like the p & the scythe best but do you know what I think when I look at them all in context? I think, "wow, the yahoo and gmail favicons are horrible!!!"

I personally like the scythe one, too. But, then, I made it, lol! I like that, even if the scythe isn't recognizable, it matches the forums when you come to them, and it helps differentiate the "P" from other "P" icons (like pintrist). That would, I think, make it more memorable. The olive is also a color you don't see on any other icons. I like, also, how the amount of foreground (white) is about the same as facebook, twitter, etc. icons. The overall icon's image is rather overwhelming due to how large the overalls are compared to it's background (especially in respect to the other icons foreground/background ratios). I didn't notice that until I saw it in the line-up.

I agree that the gmail and yahoo icons (they're called favicons? I had no idea they had a name!) are rather atrocious--especially the gmail one!

Cj Verde wrote:
No, but you could associate a little blue bird with the word "tweet." I don't think most people would associate the image of a scythe with the word scythe (much less the word permaculture) because they don't know what a scythe looks like.

Like I said, I think we need to just sort of drop the whole trying to find something that completely embodies all of permaculture.. That just is not going to happen in a 32x32 icon. I think we are going to have to be satisfied with something that represents at least one part or several parts of permaculture. Scythe, apple, overalls. Any of those will do. But debating which one represents permaculture more is just wasting time I think. :/

I like the scythe. I like the apple. I like the overalls.

Ultimately it is up to paul though. I will see what he says about these new options.

Nicole Alderman wrote: I like, also, how the amount of foreground (white) is about the same as facebook, twitter, etc. icons. The overall icon's image is rather overwhelming due to how large the overalls are compared to it's background (especially in respect to the other icons foreground/background ratios). I didn't notice that until I saw it in the line-up.

That is a really good point. I didn't notice that until the line-up either.

Cassie Langstraat wrote:Ultimately it is up to paul though. I will see what he says about these new options.

Any news?