Free Seeds! How to harvest seeds from your groceries

Jesse D Henderson wrote:A question about avocados: I've heard of germinating them by suspending them by toothpicks in water. I'm running that experiment right now. But what would happen if I just bury the whole thing? Sometimes I forget about an avocado and when I cut into it there are roots starting. Has anyone tried this method? I would think it's closer to what would happen in nature.

I love this thread ~

Regarding Avocados I had looked up some info a while back that might be of use in this conversation -

"Avocado flowering patterns fall into two groups: "A" type and "B" type flowers. A-type flowers open female in the morning and male in the afternoon, B-type are male in the morning and female in the afternoon.
It is widely accepted that fruit production can be helped with the presence of another avocado variety, but it isn’t always required." It also can take many years to see any fruit, so don't get discouraged.

I can't grow Avocados where I live - Heavy Sigh..... but I hope this info helps those that can.

Sweet corn seed becomes viable about a week before it is typically picked for young and tender fresh eating.

Some type of pea pods may have seeds in them that are mature enough to be viable.

I think that fresh edamame would probably grow just fine if planted immediately while still wet.

The sugarbeets that I have grown, or that I picked up that had fallen off trucks, were sterile, and didn't make seeds.

I didn't know corn was viable that early. I have a lot to learn about corn.

Interesting about the sugarbeets.

I've only grown mangledwurzels so far, but I can definitely see why Carol Deppe would choose these as a good choice for perennial spinach. The leaves are so sweet and tender.

Ranson and/or Joseph,

When you talk about getting immature seeds -- I don't mean to beg the question by using the word "immature," but you know what I mean -- of sweet corn, edamame, sugar snap peas... to germinate do you have any basis in experience (your own or secondhand or something you read from a more or less authoritative source) do you have to believe it's a realistic possibility? Based on some of my own seed saving attempts from plants I tried to mature but that were attacked by squash bugs before optimally mature or something like that, I'm highly skeptical.

One thing that comes to mind, though, is a news story I heard maybe two or three years ago about doctors that found a garden pea growing in someone's lung. Several different news agencies seemed to report on the story. The story was that he had been eating regular green garden peas (or at least that's what I took them to mean), a pea went down the wrong pipe, lodged in his lung where it was warm and moist, and it started to grow. The story is extremely suspicious for multiple reasons, the first being that the "seed" wouldn't have been mature when it was harvested, but also that it would surely have been boiled, probably after freezing (which unless fully dried could ruin germination ability), and then it would have had to escape chewing and germinate at a temperature that I wonder if it weren't too warm for a cool season crop like garden peas. So the whole story was extremely fishy, but as best as I can remember, several normal news outlets just unquestioningly ran with it. Anyways, if that story is real, then there are lots of germination possibilities beyond what I'd ever imagine. I'm inclined, however, to think I should be even more skeptical about the news than I already am.

We'll have to wait for Joseph to weigh in about the corn, but with peas, beans and edamame, I have plenty of experience on the farm with saving seeds from what they call the 'shelly' stage (aka, the eating stage).

Edamame I don't grow anymore due to allergies, but peas and beans, I often pick 'young' and dry inside. Usually, 'though, I wait until the bean or pea has a slight bitter taste to it, which means the sugars have started to convert to long term storage. This is still a good deal younger than many peas and beans I find 'fresh' in the grocery store.

At certain times of year the morning dew is just too heavy. It makes the dry pulses go moldy in the shell as they are drying. Same problem in the fall if we get an early rain. To avoid a crop loss, I usually harvest the first third of the seeds early, then leave the rest to dry down in the field. I usually get 90 to 100% on my germination tests from the early harvest seeds.

It's difficult for me to see why the pulses wouldn't grow when dried at the 'shelly' stage. The germ (part that becomes new plant) is there quite early on, and once the pulse has filled out to the shelly stage, it has ample energy stores to start growing when the conditions are right. If the pulse was dried too early, before it had reached it's full size, it would have less energy stores and might have trouble getting started if growing conditions were not ideal for it. Many grocery store crops are designed/selected to grow in a very specific condition. Unless 'organic', the plant is expecting heavy agricultural inputs of water and other additives. This could be where the trouble came from. Not because the seed was immature (I can't imagine it would sprout if it was), but that it didn't have the kind of resistance that is so important in home or organic style gardening.


I think perhaps the the confusion comes from the fact that saving seeds is becoming trendy right now. As soon a something starts to hit mainstream, there are always authors and people willing to tell us the one and only way to do it right. Of course, if we believe them, then we risk ignoring the wisdom of our ancestors and other people who have been successfully saving seeds the 'wrong way' for so many thousands of years.

Joseph knows way more about these things than I do, so I hope he'll weigh in. In the meantime grab your library card. I've got some fun reading for you if you would like to learn more about how seeds work. I'm especially fond of Carol Deppe's work as she recognizes there are lots of ways of doing something - even if she's opinionated about which way she likes best.


A pea growing in the lung, however, I agree, that seems a bit far fetched. It's far too warm in there to germinate a pea.

I knew the growing parts were present in the seeds, but I didn't know they could grow without going through dormancy first (like drying down). Yet, I've seen it with other seeds, I should have made the connection with beans and peas.

Joseph can you tell us more about this?

R Ranson: Thanks. I'm currently running a series of germination tests to determine the best germination conditions for some cactus seeds. Turns out that I had great success with planting seeds from a rotting fruit in which the seeds didn't dry out before I planted them. I hadn't expected that.

Cactus fruit. Neat. Please let us know how it goes.

... I wonder... are any of those funny looking fruits in the grocery store that I never buy from a cactus? There were these yellow things with loads of fingers in the shop last time that looked like maybe... Now I want to learn all about cactus (magpie brain, loves a shiny thing), but so tired. Must turn off internet and get sleep!

First thing to learn tomorrow morning when I wake up: which grocery store fruits come from cactusessesses... second thing to learn, the plural of cactus.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Because I grow in a cold short-season climate, I have often harvested and planted immature seeds. They have a viable embryo, but the rest of the seed might only be partially formed. My first two muskmelon seed harvests fit into that category.

Tomato seeds become viable at about 30-35 days, but the fruits/seeds might take up to 60 days to mature.

Do you find that this tactic of planting seeds from immature fruit encourages future generations to ripen fruit more quickly [at whatever cost that may be, whether it's reduced vegetative growth or smaller fruit or whatnot]?

Kyrt Ryder wrote:Do you find that this tactic of planting seeds from immature fruit encourages future generations to ripen fruit more quickly [at whatever cost that may be, whether it's reduced vegetative growth or smaller fruit or whatnot]?

It's complicated... I'll give some examples... The first year I planted watermelons, I planted seeds from hundreds of varieties. 7 plants were able to produce viable seeds. So I had a 98% failure rate. Which means that I had a success rate of 2%. That is a stunning success in my climate. These days, ripe melons are common for me.

My first plantings of moschata squash were harvested green. The seeds were immature. There wasn't even one ripe fruit. 75% of the varieties didn't produce viable seeds before the plants were killed by frost. My moschata squash are descended from the survivors of an 88 day frost free growing season, and a 84 day season. Every plant these days produces ripe fruits in my typical 90-100 day frost-free growing season.

A similar thing happened with muskmelons. The first couple years they were only able to produce immature fruits with barely viable seeds. These days my muskmelons are producing ripe fruits up to a month earlier than my initial plantings. In my muskmelons in particular, quick fruiting is often associated with extremely vigorous growth early in the season. A plant that grows well has lots of energy available to make fruit. Precocious flowering has also been an important trait that is developing in my muskmelons. I have definitely selected for smaller fruits in the muskmelons. Smaller muskmelons mature quicker at my place.

I don't attribute these successes directly to harvesting immature fruits, but to harvesting any fruit at all. An immature seed is better than no seed at all. Then over the years, slight variations in days to maturity have accumulated in my favor as I selectively save seeds from the first plants to produce mature seeds. One of my most important selection criteria in many crops is quick maturity.

R Ranson wrote:I knew the growing parts were present in the seeds, but I didn't know they could grow without going through dormancy first (like drying down).

If we're talking about peas and beans and corn, seeds that are normally harvested dry, as opposed to tomatoes or watermelons, for example, then I think it's important to recognize that seeds commonly continue to dry down after they go fully dormant. It's very common for farmers to harvest field corn less than storably dry, artificially dry it (e.g. with propane heat), and then store it. Traditionally corn cribs accomplished the same thing with natural ventilation. Traditionally small grains (meaning wheat, barley, etc.) were harvested and shocked in the field to finish drying. They weren't storably dry yet, but that doesn't necessarily mean they hadn't gone dormant in the sense of nutrient exchange between the seed and the plant ceasing. I frequently put desiccant packs in jars with seed to further reduce their moisture content from normally-storably dry to even drier in order to further extend their storage life. One could do the reverse, too, without necessarily reaching the tipping point where germination begins. Perennial (tree, etc.) seeds, garden weed seeds, etc., commonly remain dormant all winter, largely due to temperature. I would assume that they commonly gain moisture after first making contact with the soil.

So, obviously, the point at which seeds become viable is frequently (if not always) short of the point of having fully dried down (sufficient, in the case of most vegetables, for us to store them in a sealed container) and not precisely the same question. (And, as perhaps with cactus -- which I know nothing about as far as seed saving -- some seeds, especially tree seeds, actually need to stay moist in order to maintain optimal viability.) But if we're talking about less than fully mature seed, I think we're talking about more than just moisture content. I certainly believe what Joseph said about it being possible for seeds to germinate even before full and actual maturity, and in some cases -- particularly with vine crops, for example - I suspect seeds can continue to mature (by which I mean more than just drying down) to some degree even after separating the fruit from the plant. The question with things like sweet corn or sugar snap peas (or any other garden peas -- I only say sugar snap peas because they would seem like the best bet to find in a supermarket) is how early these things can be harvested, i.e. a question of degree. The fact that less than fully dry seed can finish drying down doesn't speak directly and precisely to the question of maturity. I don't think anything other than actual trials and observations can speak to the question of actual maturity (although, then again, I suppose anything might theoretically be explained in terms of the molecular science, but that would likely be too technical for this context and for me.)

R Ranson wrote:Thrilled to find out I'm not the only one.

I didn't know about celery rooting. Can't wait to try it.

Thanks for chiming in Joseph about the male sterility issue. I always forget to mention that.

Especially with the prices hitting $5 for celery.

I am glad I found this thread as I like experimenting with supermarket stuff too.

I find a lot of varieties in the grocery store that are male-sterile. In a few of them, (carrots, potatoes, onions), the sterility was selected from naturally occurring populations. In many other species, the sterility was made in a laboratory by combining the nuclear and organelle DNA from different species. It doesn't matter to me where the sterility originated. I don't want to be growing plants that can't produce pollen, so I watch my crops carefully, and cull any plants that don't produce pollen. I commonly see male-sterility in grocery store produce in carrots, onions, beets, chard, radish, potatoes, sunflowers, broccoli, cabbage, bok choi, and turnips.

In many cases, the male-sterile plants are easy to spot, because they do not have anthers. Here is an example with carrots.

Normal Carrot Flower	Male-Sterile Carrot Flower

I just planted some lentils as a cover crop. And I saw some cowpeas in a bulk bin that I will try. Mung and azuki beans too. Also tossed in some bird seed for millet and sunflowers.

A few years ago I also grew some lima beans from a bag that turned out to be bush beans. They grew well here and the plants survived for a couple years (no frost area). I had no clue they were short-lived perennials!

I've tried growing cumin seed, and while I got some to germinate, the plants were rather puny and didn't produce much.

Got some really good poblano seed from a store pepper. I chose the largest, ripest, close to shriveling one and let it sit at room temperature to mature as much as it could off the plant. Just germinated the last of those this past month.

A few years ago I grew many kabochas from many different store squashes. The plants grew well, but the flavor IMO was not nearly as good as those grown from packets, likely hybrids. Even grown in the same general area at the same time, most of the fruits lacked that dry nutty essence. Since our space, time and water are limited, from now on I'll stick to kabocha seed from packets.

We had some supermarket garlic starting to sprout on our counter. So we planted it last week in containers and put it under our LED grow lights. Trimmed and ate the scapes yesterday... we'll see how it turns out!

Mindy

I bought two butternut squash of different varieties at the grocery store last month. As is my custom, I tasted them before saving seeds from them. One of them was insipid. The other was decent. So I didn't save seeds from the one that was lacking flavor.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
I bought two butternut squash of different varieties at the grocery store last month. As is my custom, I tasted them before saving seeds from them. One of them was insipid. The other was decent. So I didn't save seeds from the one that was lacking flavor.

That's why it was such a disappointment that my kabocha growing experiment was such a disappointment. Every store-bought kabocha was tasted and if it lacked flavor its seed was not saved for planting. At one point, I had sheets of drying seed around the house with notes on the taste of each mother squash. I only planted those that were in the top taste profile. The thick fleshed, darkly colored, dryish, nutty tasting ones were selected and planted and labeled. Unfortunately the vines all intertwined in the garden so I could not tell which fruits came from which, and in the end that really didn't matter since most of them did not measure up to what I wanted.

It could have been the result of my culture or location (it's not that hot here). But since a few were indeed good, and the separate plants grown from seed packets (esp hybrid tetsukabutos) were also very good tasting, I decided that experiment was over for now in our drought conditions. Sorry to say I need to plant what has been dependable instead of taking the time to select what does well here with open-pollinated varieties.

I found some star anise in the shop today. First time I've found whole anise, not ground. Very excited, each little star has all sorts of seeds in it. I popped some out and put them in a pot.

Shall I google what they look like, or just be surprised by the outcome. The feel and shape of the seed make me think I'm gonna get a tree.

Spoiler alert!





It's a tree!

I've suddenly realized just how many seeds are in my spice cabinet. Most of them are a few years old, so it's time to renew them. I was thinking take 1/3rd of what's left, toss it in the ground now. Then when the weather is warm, take another third and toss it in the ground. Don't even look up what the seeds will grow, just plant them in rows (so I can tell weed from seedling). What grows, grows, what does not dissolves back into soil.

sesame (only a year old)
mustard (yellow and black)
fennel, anise, dill, ajwain, cumin, seeds of that shape (might just plant one of these)
star anise
cardamon
coriander
nigella

Not sure if peppercorns or fenugreek are seeds, so doing a germination test on them. There are also some vanilla pods that are hard and dry. I'll be making vanilla extract from them, but wondering if the little dots inside the pods are seeds. I imagine it's a greenhouse kind of crop.

So many ideas.

Vanilla comes from an orchid. Unfortunately, that's all I know about how they grow. Coriander and Dill seed are both nearly ridiculously easy to grow. I suspect the mustard will be also. I'm letting my mustard greens go to seed this year for the spice.

I am enjoying the dialogue about fruit seeds and GMO sterility concerns over the last page of posts here. Not wanting to derail the convo, I have my results of sprouting a new bag of bean soup mix.

In Denver CO I used the Sprouts supermarket's bulk bin bean mix. Now in Connecticut I tried the Big-Y supermarket's organic store brand, Full Circle. They have a 14bean mix in a one pound bag for $3.50. Happy to say that other than the split peas and lentils, all the intact beans sprouted in 3 days! Here is my obligatory photo

That's fantastic! What a delicious looking mix of beans.

What are your plans for the beans? Will you be snacking on the sprouts or digging them in the dirt?

R Ranson wrote:That's fantastic! What a delicious looking mix of beans.

What are your plans for the beans? Will you be snacking on the sprouts or digging them in the dirt?

I like to use them as a cover crop. They make lots of leaves and turn into a tangled mess without poles to climb. Easy to chop and drop too. The photo below shows a nice carpet of beans in between the production plants.

There are many foods you can grow from kitchen scraps:

* Lettuce, cabbage, and bok choy are straightforward to grow and have a short, four-day growing period. They are more space intensive than herbs so a large deck or small garden is recommended for these leafy greens. Collect unattractive or tough outer leaves that would normally be discarded and place them in a bowl containing enough water that the bottom ends are submerged. Set the bowl aside in an area that receives ample sunlight, replacing water and misting leaves every other day. After three to four days small roots and new leaves should be visible. Transplant the sprouted leaves in soil and allow to your greens to grow to full size.

* Celery is one of the easiest vegetables to regrow, and the same growing techniques can be applied to romaine lettuce. Cut off the base of a head of celery and place it in a bowl of warm water with the cut ends facing upwards. Place the bowl in a sunny area, making sure to change water every other day. After five to seven days, new leaves will have appeared and the sprouted base will be ready to be planted in soil. Make sure the new leaves are uncovered and water generously. Harvest once the plant has reached full size.

* Lemongrass and Scallions: One of the most frustrating parts of making Asian food is tracking down the often-elusive lemongrass. Well here’s a secret: re-growing this hearty, aromatic herb is so simple that a child could master it. Within days you could be adding it to all of your stir-fries, marinades, and broths. To grow from scraps, cut the root end off of the stalk and place it in a container filled with water so that that the roots are fully submerged. Place the container in ample sunlight and refill water regularly. In about a week, new growth will have emerged and the plant can be transplanted into soil. It can be harvested once it has reached one foot in height (make sure to cut off just the amount you need and not the whole plant.) Due to its sensitivity to cold, lemongrass will need to be moved inside during the winter so make sure to choose a planting container that allows for this. Scallions can be regrown using these same steps.

* Basil and Cilantro:
Cilantro and Basil can both be regrown once their stems grow new roots. Place whole stems in a water-filled glass, keeping the leaves out of the water and making sure there is ample but indirect sunlight. Replace water every other day or as needed, and transplant stems once the roots are two inches long. New shoots should emerge within a few weeks and leaves can be harvested as needed.

* Ginger has been praised for its flavor and medicinal powers for so long and by so many cultures, that it’s incredible that more people aren’t growing it at home. A surprisingly small amount of energy and space is needed to grow this unique root. All you need is a pot, some soil, and a small piece of leftover ginger. Plant a thumb-sized piece in moist soil, ensuring the buds face upwards. Within a week there should be enough new growth to harvest the entire plant (including the roots). Remember to save a small piece of the rhizome so that you can replant it and continue growing ginger free of cost for as long as you want.

* Root vegetables such as carrots, turnips, beets, and parsnips all grow well from just their tops. Simply remove the tops and place them in a container of water, cut side down, in ample sunlight. Change the water every few days and observe for new growth and roots. Once roots are visible, transplant the tops in soil, taking care to not cover the green shoots. Carrot greens are edible and can be harvested for use in salads or pesto, otherwise wait until carrots reach full size and uproot.

Thanks for a very interest topic. I love acorn squash but won't pay the grocery store price, but once years ago I did splurge and grew them from a grocery store purchase. My Mom always had avocado seeds on tooth picks in water on the window sill. I will now be doing more experimenting!

Probably more for a tropical permaculturist, but I have a volunteer mango tree from my compost pile this spring.

For my own sake I'm going to try growing it in a pot. If you look online you can find fruiting bonsai mangoes. I have a root make pot that my apple tree came in, I think it's big enough.

One of my favorite, most reliable winter greenhouse vegetables is mustard greens that volunteered in the mulch one year. I must have dumped floor sweepings there after cooking with mustard seeds and some must have spilled on the floor. I tried to purchase the same seeds again but they grew out to inferior mustard greens, so I've kept replanting the seeds from the original volunteers.

R Ranson wrote:
- Carrots, celeriac, and other biannual root crops - either plant whole, or plant the top two inches of the root (including the leaf growing spot which must be healthy) in the soil when danger of hard frost passes, let go to seed, save seeds.

So here's my question. As a container gardener- if I do this in a container, it shouldn't need to be in a very deep container because they won't reproduce the root- right?

I had no idea you could root the scrap leaves from cabbage etc. Seems to me just one head could equal a lifetime supply.

I've read about making pineapple cores grow another pineapple, but never had any luck at it myself.

The only zucchini plant I ever grew was from a saved seed. I swear that thing could have fed India.

Avocados: When I was a kid we grew them as shade-tolerant houseplants that could be conveniently pinched into any shape you liked, and some got big enough to take over the room, but they never bloomed. We had poor luck with the toothpicks-and-water method. But when we got lazy and just stuck them into the dirt, every single one came up. We'd plant them fairly deep (someone told us six inches, so that's what we did!) and they often took months to come up, but the success rate was 100%. -- The dormant seed is extremely cold-hardy, but the tree is one of the most cold-sensitive plants I've ever seen. One frost and the one I tried growing outdoors, which came up from a seed that had wintered in the ground, was dead to the roots.

Tomatoes: I once knew someone in Los Angeles who'd flung some fast-foot scraps into the front yard for the birds to eat... and had tomatoes come up. A few years later those tomatoes had completely taken over their entire front yard, despite that it was entirely in deep shade, and was never watered. It looked like a tomato jungle, but they produced well and were pretty good eating.

When store-bought onions get growthy, or if I just don't like 'em much, I plant them out front for their big beautiful flowers and excellent tolerance of hot, dry, or poor-quality soil. I must be doing something wrong, because every one I've ever planted has made seeds galore, and I get little onions coming up all over. Last year I planted decorative allium, and they're busy making seeds too. -- The onions bloom a lot later, so not likely to get any hybrids.

I grew fenugreek this summer from seeds sourced at the grocery store. I harvested the seeds about a  month ago, and threshed them today. I got about a teaspoon of seed. That's a big win, since that is about 15 times more than I planted. I grew them as transplants. Next time, I intend to direct seed them in early spring.