the unmotivated spouse

My ex-wife was often quite enthusiastic about the prospect of various household improvements. When it came time to do it, she had no interest in helping. No amount of complaint or prodding from me, made any difference. I quickly learned that these were my projects. She voiced opinions on how it should be done, whether it should be done and on the quality of the result. The house was her domain, and when I was improving it, I was treated like any other workman who might need direction or suggestions.

I found it best to be as pleasant as possible and feign compliance, since anything I had to say, fell on deaf ears.

My kids lived there, so even after we were divorced, I spent somewhere around $25,000 plus a lot of time, making the place quite nice. Once the house was completely hers, my efforts received nothing but praise, as I spent my hard-earned money increasing the value of her nest egg.

Once projects were completed, she was very complimentary and appreciative. She would take friends and relatives around on a tour, to look at all the wonderful improvements." Here's the rock garden, look at the cobblestone driveway, he refinished all of the floors, aren't these nice sidewalks, I really like the back patio..."  She is a cheerleader, but not a doer. I think a big part of it was that she was raised in an old-fashioned manner that said certain jobs are for men and certain jobs are for women. She views Home Improvements as a job for men. Then she decorates those improvements, and tells everybody to take their shoes off before entering.

Lately, she has mentioned that certain things could use Improvement. The kids are grown and out of the house, so I won't be taking on any really big projects.

My spouse and I have been married for a very long time. He was a type A+++ and I rated A. We met at college and neither of us are a brick. We learned short on but AFTER we married: I'm a night owl, he's a morning person. We could pass as one went to bed and one got up-crazy college hours we didn't know until about four months after we're married. We've both had professional jobs. We have both had turns at being the one 'bringing home the loaf'. Major turning points were: I can't read his mind nor am I going to try to, (the bird) is a complete reply. [thank a counselor I had for that one]. An hour worked is an hour worked, whether it is writing code or doing laundry. It's still work. It still counts. We've both had depression, I was on antidepressants and tranquilizers 3 times, and just tranquilizers, once. He's had codependency counseling. THEN, he became disabled and that took a long time for both of us to adjust to.

Things we sorted out: you can't speak for the other person on scheduling or agreeing to anything. If I say I will bring pickup and help you move, you get me and the pickup. Not me, HIM, and the pickup.  Etc. We have his tools, my tools, and our tools. You leave your tool out it's your problem if it rusts. Joint tools, whoever took it out or used it has to put it back or clean up after. You can freely borrow someone else's tool but they might come along attached to it (do the deed with it, and take their tool back).

Projects, again, HIS, MINE, ours. Your project, you're running it. The other will help if asked and it might have to be scheduled when, but. We also were fans of a show called Junkyard Wars, and one team was a bunch of engineers-they had instituted a 'two brain' rule. Some things were required you bring another person in. This cut down on errors that were easily spotted by someone else. It makes it better to invoke that rule rather than let the other one really mess up, or it's an easy way to ask a question if you're stumped with something. (saves the old pride bit). We often do our own projects in the same area at the same time... safety reasons and also if you need a hand for a moment. He has his interests and I have mine, and we can spend time on them without issues.

Budget, I chase that. Things that need doing get discussed, wants and needs, and things scheduled and budget allocated. If there's a shortfall we ride it out, if we have the rare extra we discuss it. Amazon Wishlists did a LOT on what's needed and wanted being written down somewhere so it can be seen AND remembered. Not all of it can be gotten at once but some things have equal merit.

He still gets easily upset and frustrated and needs naps. It's okay, most of the time he can go do so.

He will ask what is needed of him and some days or times it's a definite no, otherwise it's mentioned. If we go on a trip, I will make lists of what needs doing. The IMPORTANT PART. I make the lists and if he finishes his list he CAN sit down, done. If he's tired or dizzy he can take breaks, just that he has his list to finish. What's left of his A type, he'll get the list done.

We still have moments, 110 decibel discussions and fantasies of hiding the other one in the compost.

Recently on gardening work, I had to do what needed doing. He asked what he could do, and the grass really did need murdering so I sent him to fix the lawn tractor tire and go mow. It needed doing, he had the decision made for him on what would be useful, and it was work that needed doing. Do I like having to be schedule central? No, but it is the way we made life easier.

Two other things: 'Why Are You Crying?' I Don't Know is a legitimate answer.
The world is not black and white, there is a LOT of GREY as well. He learned to unwind his engineer mindset a bit. If I could learn the amount of math I did, he could learn to cut some slack.
(and he can sit at the pattern counter in the fabric store, just like I can walk into the part store--I'm probably the one buying the part)  [walking through the homecenter once, with a flat with a nice selection of tools on it, a fellow following his wife pushing a cart, he looks and drools as I pass, then he looks surprised to see I'm alone and he stopped to say 'where's your husband', I said 'at home' and his wife gave me a murderous look. At a Harbor Freight, we're shopping, and I'm the one with cart and flyer with the circled stuff and filling cart until I ran out of $. Fellow with wife with a drillpress box loaded in cart, offered to trade drillpress and wife for me. She didn't think much of that, I said we had two already (truth) and we talked nicely for a few. Bet that was an icy trip home for him...]

It won't work for everyone. This took the two of us decades. Once you get married, the adventure is just started. (edit, muffed some spelling)

Deb Rebel wrote:.... 110 decibel discussions and fantasies of hiding the other one in the compost.
)

Doh!!!....the COMPOST!!...Of Course!  Why didn't I think of that!   I'm always telling people Permies.com is a treasure trove of originality!~....

And I haven't even *started* on my Hugelbed......

Good points here....one of which actually goes back to Herr Freud.  Once you take back your own "projections" (relative to this discussion, the closest would be "expectations"), you actually begin to see the person as they are, rather than the embellishment (for better or worse) that you created from the start.   Thorny topic....harder than troubleshooting an RMH, that's for sure!

Once you take back your own "projections" (relative to this discussion, the closest would be "expectations"), you actually begin to see the person as they are, rather than the embellishment (for better or worse) that you created from the start.

Yes..yes...YES!  that's it...then we can decide if they're a keeper or not with some clear thinking

Temperament is a complex thing, which is why I said i was guessing. Not at all surprised that I got some things wrong.

People change when it becomes too uncomfortable to stay the same. As dysfunctional as it is for you, your relationship is working for him. If it weren't, he'd do something different.

So what about this is working for him? Can you set some boundaries so it doesn't work?

E Cochran wrote:

Then we decided, another long conversation ensued, to fence the west line on the south side of our property (we have a creek that splits the land). We hand carried posts and tools and such to the location, put in one post, and quit for the day because it was 100 degrees out. Okay. Too hot to work in the sun. I get that. So we decide to start going out to work at 6 in the morning - but ... the alarm goes off and I get up but he refuses to get out of bed whining that he didn't sleep well (mind you I've had 3 hours of sleep and still got up knowing that we'd been done by noon and I could take a nap).

When I read this, it made me think of my own husband. For as long as we've been married, he's always complained about not getting enough sleep, even when he gets hours more than me. He'll get seven hours in a row, and act so tired, while I was woken up by little ones every hour or two, and only got 5 hours total of sleep. And then I still function better than him. It used to really irk me. I'd be thinking, "Just wake up and pull your act together! Why do I have to do so much, when I got so little sleep?! Why can't you just pace with the screaming baby for an hour--I just did it for two hours and I got less sleep than you. My Dad worked 6-7 days a week, on 6 hours of sleep, and got tons of stuff done at home, for 30 years--why can't you?!?" etc, ect, etc.

Then, last year, he got diagnosed with Crohn's Disease. Lack of sleep (as well as other stressers, both physical and mental) causes stress on his body, which leads to horrific "flare-ups" (that term really underestimates what he went through. He would have horrendous diarrhea, horrible gut pain and bleeding and pus, arthritis so bad that he couldn't walk and his knee filled up with 1/2 cup of fluid, uveitus in his eyes, anal fistulas, and sores/ulcers all over his legs). All those years he needed so much sleep, he really DID need that much sleep, just to keep his body functioning.

Now, his sleep is a priority. It stinks, because I would like my sleep to be a priority. But, it's not. I don't have horrendous health problems occur when I go without sleep. So, while I'm still frustrated that he went to sleep rather than helping with the seven baby kittens that were birthed--surprise!--by a feral cat we trapped three days ago; I just have to face the fact that I'm the one that has to deal with it.

Maybe your husband really is a lazy bum...or maybe he has health problems that you just don't know about. I find it soooo easy to think, "I can do this, why can't they?!" When, maybe, just maybe, they really can't and it's really not their fault.

...But, then, I also am really naive and tend to think the best of people...and am often found to be wrong. You know your husband a lot better than we do!

I haven't read every single word in this thread, but an option I haven't noticed so far is divorce. In my opinion, divorce sucks. There is little about it that is fun. BUT, when its done, it's done. I have found in my long years that life passes by faster than you ever imagined when you were young. Every year that goes by seems to pass faster than the last. When you are in high school every path in life is possible. You can be a fireman, a soldier, a CEO, a farmer, an entrepreneur. But fairly quickly doors begin to close. You can't join the military as a middle aged person. You might make a better author as you gain experience, but if you don't get the right kind of experience when young you aren't likely to be able to hire on as a CEO. ....The point being, life moves fast, then you get old, then you die. Time is a commodity that is highly perishable. You need to make good decisions as quickly as you can before time simply runs out to make different decisions. Marriage/partnership is one of those decisions. If you are in a poor relationship, and keep hoping (without good cause) that things will get better, you may run out of time to find a better relationship. I highly recommend accepting reality. If you are not happy and things aren't likely to change, then simply do what it takes to get happy. I have seen too many of my friends stay in relationships for decades until they finally woke up to their real situation. And then it sucks to start over when you're in your 50's+. But, life is too short to be permanently unhappy. I suggest that doing whatever it takes to live joyfully is much better than lack of happiness, fulfillment and fun. I tried several times with the wrong people, it didn't work, now I'm with the perfect person. Thank goodness I moved on. Life is too precious to waste.

I am so happy being divorced. I will never marry again, I doubt that I'll even have a committed relationship again. I once told a friend, I never want to live again with someone who thinks he/she is entitled to an opinion.

I'm not saying others should get divorced, but I assure you, not everyone who does regrets it or thinks its hard. It's so much easier doing everything myself, than having to fix everything he did wrong. I'm happy, my children are happy. we are free of that man and his family.

When it comes to doing things in the home or garden, many people don't have any desire to do these things, but they appreciate others who do. I have tried to cure laziness and apathy in others. I was not successful.

I'm sure that sometimes, a couple enters into a plan, where both are enthusiastic. I have to wonder, if they were both enthusiastic in the beginning, or if one talked the other into it. For some it can be a concrete plan, for others, a vague wish. If one partner gets dirty and produces some tangible result, the idle one may realize some semblance of their wish coming true, without a whole lot of bothersome effort.

Nicole Alderman wrote:
Maybe your husband really is a lazy bum...or maybe he has health problems that you just don't know about. I find it soooo easy to think, "I can do this, why can't they?!" When, maybe, just maybe, they really can't and it's really not their fault.

This.

I was reading through this whole thread thinking all the time, there could be something else going on with the guy - that might not be psychological or relationship; it might be physical.

Don't get me wrong, there could be a psychological reason he doesn't want to help and sidetracks every project - maybe he feels threatened, maybe he's a perfectionist, maybe he's afraid of failure. That could be, and if so, there could be upsides to some of those personality traits. Focus on the upsides where and if you can.

But the physical idea...that speaks to me.

I was the ripe old age of 21 and could not figure out why I was so unmotivated myself. I couldn't rally myself. I was always late. I didn't want to do much of anything. Things were so foggy for me, that I didn't realize what was wrong. I started reading self-help books. I saw a counselor. None of it really helped. Then, just before I turned 30, I discovered that wheat/gluten gave me sinus infections, made me TIRED, and made me depressed. Removing wheat was like giving myself a new lease and outlook on life. A 180-degree shift. I hadn't even known how down I was until I could see life without the 'shit-colored glasses' filter. Life could be vibrant. Who knew?!

Someone else near and dear to me was feeling unmotivated. Terrible productivity issues. This person just couldn't seem to tackle even very simple tasks and priorities. I encouraged this person to see a doctor and the doctor found this person has basically NO B12 in their system--at all. Their energy and stress modulating systems were missing a key component. After a few weeks of intensive B12 treatment (weekly injections) the motivation returned. Wow!

Nicole's example of her husband is another good one, and I'm so glad she mentioned it here. There are a gazillion more examples of physical roots to things that look psychological, I'm sure.  

If there is even a lack of motivation to check for any possible physical causes, or, no physical causes found, then I think there is a mind bender left to try to salvage or repair or buoy the relationship AND your own mental health. (This is after there are perhaps negotiations over who is to decide what, and where or when - there are some great recommendations along those lines in this thread.) The mind bender is to really believe that he is contributing in his own way, and that he is doing the best that he can do, with the skills and knowledge he has at this time (or that moment in time). And that it is enough. Even that it is good.

A mental shift like this can work like magic on one's own state of happiness, and oddly enough, it can some times clear road blocks with the other person, too. But don't count on it removing the road blocks, that's not the point. The point is more of an acceptance and highlighting the positive state of mind.