Permies in the UK

Chris Barton wrote:

Henry Jabel wrote:Anyone in/around gloucestershire / worcestershire area? Would be nice to meet some other people.

Hey there Henry (and everyone else on this glorious island)
I'm a worcestershire resident (malvern) looking to connect with like minded people.
☺

I am in Broadway so not too far away. I am sure there are more of us round the area I just havent met many yet! There is a transisition group for evesham and a land centre not too far from me.

Hi All,
I'm based in the West Midlands, but I also spend a lot of time on Dartmoor, Devon. I intend to move down to Dartmoor in the next couple of years as I feel that with the 'Transition Movement' developing in the South West of England it's the place to be! I would be interested to meet up with fellow Midlanders and also folks from the South West. Also anyone doing the online PDC Course with Patrick Whitefield Associates.

Thanks Steve.F

Steve Faulkner wrote:Hi All,
I'm based in the West Midlands, but I also spend a lot of time on Dartmoor, Devon. I intend to move down to Dartmoor in the next couple of years as I feel that with the 'Transition Movement' developing in the South West of England it's the place to be! I would be interested to meet up with fellow Midlanders and also folks from the South West. Also anyone doing the online PDC Course with Patrick Whitefield Associates.

Thanks Steve.F

Hey Steve, welcome to the boards!

How're you finding the online course? I was fortunate enough to participate in Patrick's last PDC and learned a great deal in the process! The South West does seem to be the place to be - the polar opposite of the Valleys here in SE Wales...

Sam

Hi Sam,
Thank you for the warm welcome. I've just started the Soil module of the course and it is really interesting indeed. However I'm a bit worried about the course because I'm 46 years old and it has been along time since I did anything educational. Also as I research I tend to go off on a tangent and it takes me an age to get back on course. A bit more self discipline and I should be okay I think.

Where I am at the moment is a bit of a Permaculture black hole so I'm desperate to be amongst 'Permie folks'.

It might be a permie black hole right now but maybe you could change that. If you are in an urban area it might be worth reaching out to people at local allotments. I know in Aberdeen there is a chap with a permie allotment who is part of our local permie group. Are there any local transition town movements?

Hi Katy,
Yeah that is an idea...Although so far on my allotment site (twined with the Gaza Strip) I'm considered a bit of a nut. It seems that everyone else uses 'Round Up' and 'Kurtail' weed killers like cheap aftershave and they rotovate the hell out of the soil. I have bark chipped over a couple of layers of cardboard and weed suppressant membrane on the two plots I have, I also use builders dumpy bags as raised beds. This gets the other allotmenteers into a fine frenzy, although by gardening in this way, I'm keeping the rampant Marestail at bay.

I would love to set up a Transition style group where I live, but experience has shown me that my neighbours just don't want to know, they want to live plastic lives and eat plastic food whilst watching brain dead TV.

Where I want to live and where I spend every spare moment (a little village on Dartmoor) the people love the idea of food forests and self sufficiency. Some folks have even asked me to give talks in the village hall on Permaculture. I have travelled a lot over the years and small communities in the middle of no where, I feel are a great deal more responsive to natural systems. Many of the people I meet moved away from the cities so that they could live simpler lives. I'm planning to do the same, but until that happens I will try to make some city converts.

Steve Faulkner wrote:

Where I want to live and where I spend every spare moment (a little village on Dartmoor) the people love the idea of food forests and self sufficiency.

I'd do a lot to meet people like that up here, but they seem very difficult to find!

Hi Neil,
That's a shame, I love Scotland and I would of thought that Permaculture would go down a storm in your part of the world. I guess I'm lucky because other people have done all the hardwork where I'm hoping to settle. Totnes and Bristol are not too far away and many other nearby areas are looking to reinvent themselves with the 'Transition Movement' and greener living. The village I want to live in was originally set up many years ago to be a 'Utopian' model of agrarian living. It failed, but the original inhabitants attacked the rocky acid moorland soil with ploughs rather than wooing it with Permaculture.

What are the main difficulties in getting people to take onboard Permaculture where you are Neil?

I think the short answer is the plastic lives you mention.

I mean, there are a few people up here, but not many, and even getting close to them as friends seems to be a no-go. There are others I haven't met, but I'm clueless about how to find them. There is a Yahoo group full of lurkers, but that's about it.

I want to find someone I can head off and be self sufficient with (https://permies.com/t/50938/singles/Male-Edinburgh-Scotland-seeks-soulmate) which is probably a whole different game anyway: an allotment or a back garden is one thing, but living the life is another.

Ha yes I can sympathise entirely. For me the wild places have a special attraction and living an off grid existence is my ultimate goal. I'm very lucky, twenty years ago I met and later married my wife. A woman from a very different world to mine, she was from a Punjabi farming family, but found herself growing up in a Northern Industrial city surrounded by concrete and factories. Thankfully our life together has rekindled her love of nature, growing and cooking our own food and living life as it is meant to be lived. If we never met another likeminded soul, we at least have each other. I truly hope Neil that you find that soul mate and that you grow your food forest together.

Steve Faulkner wrote:Hi Neil,
That's a shame, I love Scotland and I would of thought that Permaculture would go down a storm in your part of the world. I guess I'm lucky because other people have done all the hardwork where I'm hoping to settle. Totnes and Bristol are not too far away and many other nearby areas are looking to reinvent themselves with the 'Transition Movement' and greener living. The village I want to live in was originally set up many years ago to be a 'Utopian' model of agrarian living. It failed, but the original inhabitants attacked the rocky acid moorland soil with ploughs rather than wooing it with Permaculture.

What are the main difficulties in getting people to take onboard Permaculture where you are Neil?

West midlands is a bit lacking in Permies but I am technically just in it in South Worcestershire and I am starting to find more people now. It seems round here they dont seem to have as much of an online presence. Around Evesham, Worcester, Malvern there seem to be Transition groups which seem to be the best way of meeting like minded people. Also Steve if you dont want to relocate as far south as Totnes and Bristol is too crowded for you. Stroud in Gloucestershire is a very good place to investigate as it has the same sort of permaculture/ecological vibe to it and it can be a suprisingly cheap place to live in.

Hi Henry,
Yeah you live in a beautiful part of the world and definitely improving. I drove down to Dartmoor last Saturday and on the way through Worcester and Gloucester shire, I was really impressed with all the solar panels each side of the A roads and M5 motorway. There was a real vibrant feeling about the area. Miles of orchards and sun generated energy and then at Bristol all the wind turbines. So much better than my home in the concrete jungle.

Anyone out there from the SE, near Hastings? I'm an American in the UK, wanting to build a rocket mass stove for my small (8' x 12' / 2.5m x 3.5m) greenhouse. Would love to sit down at the kitchen table with someone with a similar interest and work out some drawings for it. Am thinking of using ceramic pipe for the burn chamber and clay pipe to send the gasses around (up one side and down the side of the central path.

Hello all,

I've been floating round here for a couple of years now and just wanted to say hello

I live in Southampton and am on my way to doing things in a more permaculture/lazy way. Just got some babington's leeks today which I'm quite excited about. I've done hugel beds in the back garden and I'm looking forward to getting to the top of the queue for an allotment later this year. Otherwise, I'm considering doing a bit of guerilla gardening about the place, there's a fair amount of scrap land around which I'm planning to plant up.

Joanna, I'd love to build a RMH too, possibly as a nice warm seat in the garden. I know there's a permaculture place near Brighton, and if you're willing to travel up to London, I'm pretty sure LILI do courses on how to build them http://www.lowimpact.org/directory/

Thanks, Jenny! I'll take a look. And would love to collaborate, if you're up for it. Are you anywhere in the vicinity (SE)?

I'm right in the centre in the South - it's quite a way to Hastings from here, but we do go that way on holiday occasionally so I'll give you a shout if I'm down your way.

Okay, Jenny, sounds good. Thanks for the link, though there are apparently no rocket stove events happening at the moment.

Steve Faulkner wrote: Although so far on my allotment site (twined with the Gaza Strip) I'm considered a bit of a nut. It seems that everyone else uses 'Round Up' and 'Kurtail' weed killers like cheap aftershave and they rotovate the hell out of the soil.

This made me laugh no end - I fear I'm going to experience the exact same on the plot I've just taken on. My neighbour to one side has already expressed distaste for the methods of the people whose plot I've taken over as they were organic growers. She grows everything in extremely straight lines with lots of RoundedUp rotovation and plastic. It's going to be an interesting year.

I'm based in the East Midlands. Might be nice to get a Midlands contingent together, as there seem to be a few of us, even if we're spread between East and West.

Hi, I'm in Leicester too. I'm gradually planting my once Soil Assoc market garden into a forest garden. There's a few pics on cornerplotgarden.wordpress.com/
Passers by think I've really let it go, I try to explain chop n drop / woodlands but their eye brows say it all! ( except when I'm giving out produce)

I'm in the East Midlands so I'm not too far away if you do a Midlands-based meetup!

I spent last week arguing that the willow I've just planted on my allotment count as it being 'cultivated'. They think that only digging and planting in straight rows counts as cultivation. (And half my plot is planted to forest garden-esque and another 1/4 to willow, so I drive them mad!)

Joanna Sheldon wrote:Anyone out there from the SE, near Hastings? I'm an American in the UK, wanting to build a rocket mass stove for my small (8' x 12' / 2.5m x 3.5m) greenhouse. Would love to sit down at the kitchen table with someone with a similar interest and work out some drawings for it. Am thinking of using ceramic pipe for the burn chamber and clay pipe to send the gasses around (up one side and down the side of the central path.

- Hi - I'm new to the forum but have been 'lurking' for months - I'd love to help out with a roket stove build - although I'm a total novice (I live in a flat in Surrey so I couldn't use one) - http://thecrossingforestrow.com/courses/biochar-stoves/ - that might be of interest to you - run by the guy that did an article on them in PM a while back - probably not exactly what you want but should be of interest.

Karl.

East Midlands (Nottingham) here, lurking for quite a while and chatted to some lovely, helpful people on here!

M D Scott wrote:East Midlands (Nottingham) here, lurking for quite a while and chatted to some lovely, helpful people on here!

*waves* I'm Derbyshire, but on the Nottinghamshire border.

Always nice to meet locals its only a shame I had a more substantial garden, the perils of English land values!

M D Scott wrote:Always nice to meet locals its only a shame I had a more substantial garden, the perils of English land values!

Definitely! As fast as I save up for 'land' the price goes up! And if I'm lucky I could probably afford 2 acres by the time I retire- and never get the right it live or build on it!

It does make moving to the US, Canada or New Zealand tempting but then again I love the UK; just a shame its so damned crowded! I don't think it helps that we really don't build intelligently here; we've had lots of the 'wimpy' mock-tudor estates pop up around us (and more to come) with higgledy-piggledy roads to add to the 'charm' of the development, but simply seem to create traffic snarls, and the constant retreat of gardens, allotments and woods.

I keep looking at Spain or Portugal- I speak (awful) Spanish so that would be a start. It would be really difficult to go from the mindset of 'this is Britain and we basically have unlimited water' to a dryland growing pattern though! And I'm not ready to leave friends and family so far away! It does cross my mind though, when I'm reading about peoples 2-acre gardens when I have 1/10th of an acre and that is considered a really large garden here!

I'm looking at the same thing for the same reasons, Charli, with many of the same caveats (plus the worsening desertification problem in Iberia).

Much of Portugal and northern Spain has similar rainfall to the UK (a place I've been looking at in Portugal has similar rainfall to Edinburgh), but they have a dry season that much of this archipelago lacks, and greater heat, therefore greater evaporation.

I have fewer emotional barriers to emigration, though. I'm increasingly strongly inclined to go for it, but I think there is also the question of going it alone, which is a barrier to me.

Don't rule out meeting someone who'd go along with you, plenty of permies who would jump at the chance! Northern Spain/Portugal would be an interesting option; its not really on the tourist trail and is one of the worlds more pleasant climates from what i've heard, ever considered France?

I have considered France. The problem is likely to be budget. In some ways France might be preferable, but finance would be consideration.

I've considered a lot of places, few of which have been ruled out should the right opportunity arise.

I'm currently following up a fantastic opportunity in Iberia, and I've been told a partner would be welcome to come too.

I've never bitten anyone who's hit the PM button, and don't intend to start.

Hi
Excuse the newness of me.
And my inability to read entire long threads.
Any other Scots on here?

I'm just getting started in this brave new world, and I'm all excited to meet people near me who won't look at me askance and start backing off when I get onto this subject.

I'm on the coast of Fife until the end of August, then I'm off travelling, WWoofing, learning.
I want my own wee homestead within five years. I have some funds but no experience yet.
I have to live somewhere warmer than here.
And I have to get out of this modern society.
I'll likely be knocking around England and Wales for a while. There's some interesting looking internships and WWoofing opportunities.
There's a sad lack of that stuff up here. So I'd love to also here from any folks in UK, you never know I might end up in your neck of the woods for a spell.
I'm also really interested in wilderness survival.
And I'm rubbish at writing biogs, I leave out obvious and relevant info, so feel free to ask anything.

Ummm...that's it...bye.

Hi Anna. I'm in Scotland too but further north (Aberdeenshire). I can understand you wanting to be somewhere warmer as I've been freezing in the snow today as I go out to check whether the ewes are lambing. The only problem is that, certainly in the UK, warmer generally means more expensive.

There is a Permaculture North Scotland and the Isles Facebook group and a Permaculture Scotland Yahoo group and Facebook group if you want to get in contact with more Scots.

Hi Katy

thanks for that.
I had an idea there'd be a permie or two near Aberdeen, with all that farming going on.
A quick search some time ago only turned up Findhorn, which seems more of a spiritual retreat than my sort of place.
I'm not savvy with Facebook but I'll go have a look at the stuff you suggested. It could be useful to me while I'm stuck in boring ol' Fife.

So you obviously have a sheep farm, but there must be more to it if you're on here.
Do tell.

I just have a smallholding. We have a small flock of sheep that I am selectively breeding for fleece quality, though we eat them as well. I also have milking goats, geese, ducks, hens and sometimes pigs. I'm in the process of creating a forest garden and I'm trying to redesign the layout of the fields so that it is easier to mob graze them and still let the goats get to shelter.

Most of the permie people I know up here aren't online much which is probably why your web searches aren't turning up much.

If you are ever up this way you are very welcome to come and visit.

I don't think there is necessarily a shortage of land in the UK; just that a very few people/ big ag own a disproportionate amount (even the Daily Fail agrees). Hope I'm not getting too political there - this is just the reality!

It seems to be that the only affordable way to buy land to build on in the UK is to either sign up for a One Planet Development in rural Wales, buy some land yourself and build a hidden off-grid house and face the risk of it being demolished (I bet there are hundreds of them out there), or join with a few others to by a larger swathe of land with buildings on.

You do need planning permision, even for temporary structures such as a yurt.

It is possible to convert an unused barn, although this is still a punt, as apparently half of those applications get turned down (make sure it's not in a conservation area, flood plain or anything else which they could decide against).

I've heard that you can rent land fairly cheaply, and that there are ads in Farmers Weekly, or even going and talking to farmers can be another way to go.

Personally, I'm aiming to get a few allotments, do a fair amount of guerrilla gardening, and make the city my permaculture paradise (or blimmin try to anyway!), rather than escaping to the countryside. We can't all escape to our dream plot, and also that could involve isolating yourself quite a lot.

Hi all. I'm down in East Sussex. Seems to be plenty of land for sale around here. I bought an amazing plot of land two years ago. Compared to some, it was quite expensive. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for this. As I said, it's an amazing piece of land, it has just about everything. (even neighbours who would turn a blind eye to me building a dwelling if I so chose to do so, which I won't of course because that would be wrong, wouldn't it).

I did think about moving away, I just couldn't. Wish I could and did in many ways, it would have been an exciting adventure. I'm not emotionally up to that. (I lost my partner, of 30 yrs, 3 yrs ago).

My land is almost in the middle of town whilst still being on the edge of town. 10 mins and local shops but I only look out on fields.

I do have existing structures on my land, I have plans to, urm, 'modify', one of the existing structures. We'll see.

Hi,

New to permies, i'm in Brighton, east sussex doing a refurbishmeant on a house which appears to be slowly turning into a permaculture design, but didn't necessarily start that way. I'm just designing and putting systems in that use materials and consumables as many times before wasting anything.

I like the challenging engineering problems and will try to do anything.

Sam

Hi Sam. I'm often in Btn at the permie plot in Stanmer Park. Theere's an open day for Stanmer Organics on Sat. The plot will be open for visitors. Have you been? Great crew. Hopefully I'll get down for a bit on Sat.