Which land should I buy?

I’m not sure if this is the best forum to put this in. I’m also going to post it in the homestead forum.

I’ve been looking at a few properties and I’d value some outside perspective. These are owner financed, “raw” properties with no electricity, water or sewer. I’ve narrowed my options to 2 places.

The first property is 1 acre, it’s been cleared of most trees, and has a run down RV on it which comes with the property. The land has an overall down hill slope to it but there are a few flat spots (mainly in the area surrounding the RV). The property is close to my job. It is technically zoned residential, only 6 poultry animals are allowed, but a neighbor down the road has cows. The county has laws against living in RVs and you’re aren’t legally allowed to build unless the property is 1.75 acres and even then you have to abide by the state building code. However, I’ve contacted the neighbors, offered them treats, and they SEEM like they would keep to themselves. Emphasis on seem; I’m not 100% positive they wouldn’t snitch on me for living in an RV. If I went with this option I would want to move again in 5ish years once I could afford something more.

The 2nd property is 7.5 acres, woody, and the terrain is hilly. It is landlocked with a dirt road running past the corner of the property. I have been searching records and deed books but I have no idea who owns the land surrounding it. This property is no where near my job and I would have to find new work in area with little economic growth. The property is zoned agriculture and the county has no restrictions against living in an RV.

I have been dreaming of having a homestead for nearly a decade and I’m in a place in my life where I can afford some land albeit it on the slightly lower quality side. There’s something about the larger property that draws to me. I like the idea of having more land that I can turn into my dream homestead, but I worry about it being landlocked, getting it surveyed since the property lines aren’t clear at all, and clearing some of the land for a house. While I have a lot of skills in raising livestock and gardening I don’t know how to clear land and it would be slow to build a roof over my head.

What would you do in my situation? Also, what other things should I be considering or asking the sellers.

I would like to know more about your goals and the location of the properties.

To answer your question regarding what I would do, I would wait.

For a property to homestead on the larger property is better except that is landlocked. Is there an easement? So that folks can legally get to the property?

Both property have red flag and as John suggests ... wait.  The perfect property will come along one of these days.

I agree with waiting. And keep saving. You might only get one chance at the right property. You'll know it when you find it.

I would also vote for patience. Buying land is like purchasing a vehicle. It is best done when not in a rush (in my opinion).

Landlock properties and easements worry me. Trying to be sneaky with established rules in an area also worry me. I think there will be something out there, but it may not be on the market yet. Are you limited to a particular area?

Hi Christine,
I am impatient, and chomping at the bit to get back on my own property... so while waiting is good advice, I won't repeat it :)

I would not rely on neighbors not telling. While most codes are enforced because people complain... you don't know who might move in near you at a later date and would care about you being there against code.

The other options sounds nice if you have a legal way to get there... or are rich and can fly in on your private helicopter, haha!

But for a serious suggestion, I would tell you to look for land for lease near your house. Are there any farms nearby? Many farmers are more than happy to lease out a smaller field, or a corner of a big one if you want to garden or raise livestock. Just keep your infrastructure mobile, and you can get a lot of experience without the risk of owning the land itself. Sometimes we think we will like something and find out we don't, or we find something that we love doing. Either way, with that experience (and possibly extra money depending on what you are doing with that land), you will be in a better position to evaluate plots of land down the road.

Christine,
The landlocked parcel sounds much more desirable.
You might want to check with your state and county zoning officials, as many states do not recognize the term "landlocked" .
The property I purchased in Minnesota was referred to as landlocked although Minnesota does not recognize any property as landlocked.
In Minnesota you must purchase an easement, usually along the shortest and most accessible route.
I have a half mile easement to my property. The adjoining landowners were friendly and signed the easements without any charge at all.
You generally have to pay the market price for the amount of property the easement contains, and of course filing fees for the easement.

About that "landlocked" property, I would do this as soon as you have the time:
1. Find out the legal description of the parcel. This will typically have an APN (assessor's parcel number) for taxation purposes.
2. Somewhere, there is a plat map of the lot and surrounding lots. It might also possibly have a subdivision name. The legal description and APN will help you locate the plat map.
3. Contact the County Recorder's office and see if they have the plat map. That will show if there is an ingress/egress easement on one or more of the adjoining lots.

It is rare, but not unheard of, for a private parcel to be created without any access to it. That 7.5 acres was cut off of a section of land when the big section was subdivided. The county requirements for this type of land split vary from state to state, but a little legwork on your part will tell you what the real situation on the ground is.

I second the advice to not do the "illegal" RV living thing. That is just asking for trouble, but there may be a variance process inside the local zoning ordinance where you can build a house on that undersized parcel and have temporary living accommodations while you build. Contact the zoning commission, or whatever they are called and ask those questions. They might even have a searchable version of the zoning ordinance online. Zoning ordinances can be complex and use a lot of legal jargon, so talking to a real person would be the best way to start.

Joshua States wrote: I second the advice to not do the "illegal" RV living thing. That is just asking for trouble, but there may be a variance process inside the local zoning ordinance where you can build a house on that undersized parcel and have temporary living accommodations while you build. Contact the zoning commission, or whatever they are called and ask those questions. They might even have a searchable version of the zoning ordinance online. Zoning ordinances can be complex and use a lot of legal jargon, so talking to a real person would be the best way to start.

I know of a one person who is in this situation although she does have the right to build. The local rules state she can't live in temporary housing on the property. Since theft is rampant in the area, she can't build safely, if she (or an employee) aren't living there. The project is stalled indefinitely.

It only takes one person to decide they don't want you there, or don't like what you're doing, to complain to authorities. If you can't build, when you are ready to move somewhere you can have a home, you are likely to have difficulty selling the land.

I do wonder why the county allowed the land to be subdivided off, if it's too small to build on. Asking what it takes to get a variance on that rule would be worth it. Knowing *exactly* what the rules are before getting into a project is key. Another friend's building project was stalled for about 6 months because it turned out that the front steps stuck out too much towards the road! The "house" front was located just fine, it was *just* the steps sticking out that broke the rules. I can't remember whether they reoriented the steps, or applied for a variance, I would have to ask...

Joshua States wrote:About that "landlocked" property, I would do this as soon as you have the time:
1. Find out the legal description of the parcel. This will typically have an APN (assessor's parcel number) for taxation purposes.
2. Somewhere, there is a plat map of the lot and surrounding lots. It might also possibly have a subdivision name. The legal description and APN will help you locate the plat map.
3. Contact the County Recorder's office and see if they have the plat map. That will show if there is an ingress/egress easement on one or more of the adjoining lots.

The easement will be on the owners deed if they were given on.  If not folks might have to research to find out whom to get the easement from.  

I would not buy a property without an easement if it is landlocked.

Jay Angler wrote:
If you can't build, when you are ready to move somewhere you can have a home, you are likely to have difficulty selling the land.

I do wonder why the county allowed the land to be subdivided off, if it's too small to build on. Asking what it takes to get a variance on that rule would be worth it. Knowing *exactly* what the rules are before getting into a project is key. Another friend's building project was stalled for about 6 months because it turned out that the front steps stuck out too much towards the road! The "house" front was located just fine, it was *just* the steps sticking out that broke the rules. I can't remember whether they reoriented the steps, or applied for a variance, I would have to ask...

All good things to consider.
In a somewhat related story, I used to build houses and additions as a general contractor. I had a client who wanted to build an addition and a detached ramada. The local zoning ordinance had a "lot coverage allowance" which stated that only a certain percentage of the lot could be under a roof. It turned out that his lot was the only lot in the subdivision that was less than 1 acre. The zoning for this subdivision stated that the minimum lot size was supposed to be 1 acre. When we submitted our plans, we were denied because we exceeded the lot coverage allowance based on the actual area of the lot. We applied for a variance to allow us to exceed the allowable lot coverage, and our argument was the county had screwed up by allowing this lot to be less than the minimum lot size required. We argued that the county was denying the landowner to have an equivalent property value as all of his neighbors, and they should allow him to exceed the restriction to have equal value. We won and got to build what he wanted.

You could ask the seller to obtain the variance to build on that undersized lot using a similar argument. Variances typically stay with the land rather than expire when the property sells. Otherwise, an owner could obtain a variance to build something, build it, sell the land, and the buyer would be in violation.
Variance processes usually cost some money and take some time and expertise to prepare plans and exhibits. If the current owner really wants to sell, they might be willing to make the property more sellable.

We did build a homestead on raw land and as I'm sure costs vary, but overall it cost us $20,000 to setup by the time it was all said and done. I will be very careful before choosing raw land in the future.                  And as everyone is saying, I echo...patience!