Capybaras as alternative for pigs (niche market?)

Dear permies,

I got fed with heaps of good inspirations, ideas and answers since I am member in this forum and so I will also share my thoughts.

As I plan to have a nice size lake of 5000 sqm for my retirement farm I want to use animals to complete specific tasks.

My wife planted another animal into my head.
The story began as a befriended policeman offered my wife two Capybara babies and my wife sent me a picture where she had one on her arm.
The picture showed that the Capybara enjoyed actually being carried as it was pushing its head under her chin and after I did my research I found that Capybaras seem to be one of the most docile and peaceful animal pretty open to offer friendship to everyone and anyone.
I told my wife that this rodent might be lovely and cute as baby but will grow to 150 pounds,
beside it need to eat its morning poop like we need our cup of coffee to start the day and digestive system...

Also it is said that they love rough grasses and aquatic plants which would be great to keep the Vetiver Grass I plan to grow around the lake as erosion control in a proper shape.

So for me a great alternative to "employ" them as workers around and in the lake to do the necessary maintenance...

But regarding weight and growth rate I have another thing in mind.

The meat seems to be quite similar to pig meat but considered by the church in South America as Fish so also to eat in times of fasting.

Has anybody heard of commercial growing them instead of pigs, as a niche market or did they enter a delicates level in white table cloth restaurants anywhere in the world?

In general people are opening more and more to new food trends and I could imagine that there could be a basically untouched market in sight.

As rodents they have no hooves which might also be a better solution to overcome soil compaction, but I have not more knowledge available than that Google tells me...

Anything will be helpful and sure many others here would like know more about these creatures with their lovely personality, about the meat quality and certainly also customer responses wherever they already touched the market.

Cheers

See & Will Hes

Hi See,
if you're into aquaculture, a capybara might be a very useful addition to your farm probably. I remember that Geoff Lawton wrote a post two years ago about visiting research projects focused on domesticating these animals for meat production, but didn't mention where it was. I found this article: Micro-livestock: Little-known Small Animals with a Promising Economic Future 7 - Part IV: Rodents - maybe useful to you. Capybaras aren't so "micro" but probably good for smaller farms too. Great that they also have such a friendly personality!

Flora Eerschay wrote:Hi See,
if you're into aquaculture, a capybara might be a very useful addition to your farm probably. I remember that Geoff Lawton wrote a post two years ago about visiting research projects focused on domesticating these animals for meat production, but didn't mention where it was. I found this article: Micro-livestock: Little-known Small Animals with a Promising Economic Future 7 - Part IV: Rodents - maybe useful to you. Capybaras aren't so "micro" but probably good for smaller farms too. Great that they also have such a friendly personality!

Thank you Flora,

I will have also an Aquaponics section but the water needs to come from a well.
The lake water is for trees and field veggies in times of drought.

I will definitely search trough Geoff's pages and see what he comes up with.

There is also a research report in the www. which states that Capybara meat has a lower cholesterol content than beef and pigs.
This is an information that many people making listening up to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Another issue is that pigs in permaculture and food forests are hard to implement due to their destructive habits and soil compaction as mentioned above.
Also pigs have the habit to use a specific spot for their droppings which will over fertilize by the time, but rodents are more releasing their poop as they go.
If this will be in the lake the crayfish planned also will welcome the food pellets at the bottom...

Just a little heads up after I did a lot more research.

I employed an old family friend and close friend to my wife, to help her preparing to move every sapling and tree from our backyard to our farm.
She has actually a good background when it comes to marketing and was always a very keen and reliable person.

But more than this is the fact that during the time we didn't see her, she got a new boyfriend who is by all luck a known Chef working in the higher class kitchens.

I asked our maid, if she could pick his brain and he responded right away that there is a permanent increasing demand of Capybara meat.

He recommended that we just should focus on China which borders are about 600 Kilometers away.

Hence leaving the steady increasing demand in the US to the farms in South America or to permies, who are looking to feed the demand in the US.

This woman we always give our heart as a sister brought so much to us in such a short time so I might take into consideration to kick the  free range pigs out of our business plan and stock our lake and food jungle with Capybaras instead.

All started with Google and my often very reliable gut feelings that saved me from creating financial disasters or let me join into something crazy way off the minds of the crowd, that turned into gold...

Long time I thought how the pigs in our business plan will ransack our food jungle in no time, creating high nitrogen spots because they have their corners where they drop their feces, Swine fever fluctuating market demands and prices so as many other doubts.

If I just find out more advantages in the www. via my international contacts or even here at permies...

And the people who think they are too cute to be meat producers, I must admit, grown up on a farm in a rural area with many other farmer's boys and girls at school, we never gave our food names.

If they are more beneficial in permaculture then it's clear for me: Capybaras it will be...  
(no matter they will cost 1000-3000 US$ a go and sell as meat reached the best stage to butcher for about 750 US$ bone in)

I will start with a small number of cause because a lot of research has to follow, or we all need to put our knowledge together, so I am happy if we get this post running.
Whatever you know about Capybaras or even you had one at home as pet, seen one in the Zoo, touched one, bring it on here please and I will thank you in advance, in the name of all permies who struggle making a living on their small farm but are following this post with highest Interests and growing some hope...


Cheers,  See and Will

Just as an add for those who haven't seen Capybaras before I add a picture here from:

capybara-faunapark-animal-park-rodent-mammal-fur

Pretty heavy weight for a guinea pig isn't it?

Not much people here that can give knowhow.

This is actually a very good sign that we hit a virgin market and just motivates me more to do this step.
Somehow my gut feeling is since weeks on a will to win path regarding Capybaras and plans are refined on daily base.

For example how to catch them when slaughter weight is reached?
As we know they go for a dive rather than defending themselves.
They even grab their puppies and throw them into the water in case a predator is spotted.
Thinking about a corral and trained that the best munchies are in the corral served.
But then how to overcome the learning effect?

BUT, I didn't expect many people answer here and bring in knowledge...

One favor I have to ask to all of you.

Who can find sellers around the world that are willing to ship international??
I found two so far but they are not even willing to answer my emails...

Hey! So I live in capybara central (Brazil). We have them roaming around parks all over the place.
I think if you want them to have nice personalities you need to work to gentle them, here it's not uncommon to hear about people (and dogs) in parks getting attacked when they get too close. Of course who can blame the capybara, who are just minding their own business and protecting their young. But I would not get too close to an adult.
They do keep together and really just want to eat and lay around in the water. You might need to pay attention to what water-borne diseases are typical in your area. Also they can be vectors of certain diseases (here, most notably, they are a host for ticks that bear rocky mountain fever [Rickettsia]).
They are protected, so I've never tasted the meat, but the old timers say it is like pork only very lean (like rabbit) and gamy. Cuts like the ribs are supposed to be especially gamy and are often soaked in water with sodium bicarbonate and then cooked with lots of spices to cover it up. It's well liked, and I know people still hunt them even when they're not supposed to.

No idea about sellers, i think if I were you i'd start by studying the import rules for your country and then actually calling, not emailing.
Finally, this is a manual about raising capybaras in captivity. You can download the PDF, copy the text, run it through google translate, and you should be able to get the gist. https://ainfo.cnptia.embrapa.br/digital/bitstream/item/33564/1/documento-152.pdf

Gracias por tu respuesta Teresa.
Estuve trabajando durante 6 años en el mar Caribe. Así que aprendí algo de español lo suficiente como para leer.

...and Portuguese is quite similar so I will understand it.

I was reading in the www. already, that it is not recommended to get adults as they are very difficult to tame and take a long time to get their trust.
I am sure that Capybaras like every rodent have various characters.
Some you can handle and even carry on your arms and others just want to be left in peace.

Because I will touch a pretty new market I am aware that I need to go through some generations of Capybaras to breed the most gentle offspring further.  
Also the right feed will decide the taste.
Capybaras are (and need) mainly eating grass so I expect they will be the hares and wild rabbits and not house rabbits regarding taste.

There is one trick that helps to reduce the gamey taste significantly.
We age it for a week or ten days hanging in a cool room or cellar and then dump it into Buttermilk for at least 24 to 48 hrs.

If all fails I still have some reliable workers to keep the grasses around my lake and in the fruit jungle at bay plus an attraction for visitors as they are very uncommon in Thailand.

Cheers and keep the posts coming...

I must admit the info above is a bit thin:

The befriended policeman has given the Capys away after I persuaded my wife that they are something for a farm with lake and not for a backyard with 3 dogs and a bathtub.
I add here the story in my head began 4 years ago but now outweighed the pros and cons versus pigs...

A chat via FB (Thanks again Tereza) yesterday night with a former girlfriend 22 years ago, in Punto Fijo, Venezuela brought me a huge step ahead.
I am at work now and completely in bits. Taiwan and Venezuela Time zones and an endless chat with Eliza let me even coming too late to work. (Luckily we separated without the usual war and stayed friends since then)

The outcome:
- Eliza has sent 3 years ago two dog puppies to an American couple who spent a vacation near Punto Fijo. How great is that???
- Capybara pups are available throughout the year,
- the taste of FARMED Capybara is great, but not affordable for Venezuelan people.
- She knows the steps to do for sending Capybaras abroad
- The farms cannot anywhere near cover the increasing demand for capybara meat (Which confirms the words of the boyfriend of our maid)

I offered her a good "commissioning fee" and will cover all expenses to check out some reputable farmers,
create a Pet Passport,
vaccine and chip them at a reliable veterinary,
And if all Documents are collected she will use the company "pet relocation" as professional source for safe transportation.

She also told me also that the pups are best transported together,
so they will almost not bother the long flight, beside they are used to humans and temporary confined space as they are over generations farm animals.

For me means that now:
Capybaras it will be

I am still working offshore and have full books (3 month a year) till 2027, hence the risk of a financial disaster is not present.
So if not end of this year, when should I do it?

I learned 3 things never return:  
The spoken word
The fired bullet
The missed Chance

Thanks @Tereza the words forget email and try to call was bringing me on the right path..

Great news,
Latest quotation from a Farmer and Seller overseas (Thanks to Eliza):
5 females 1 male for 3600 USD at farm gate or 4800 USD incl. papers, chip and transport to Thailand...

another seller in Thailand just 450 Kilometers from us offered a pair for 6300 USD and mentioned there will be worldwide no seller who would sell 5 females.
It's pretty common that Foreigners (Farangs) are very often "slightly" higher charged than locals.

Well, unfortunately I must have by now already better connections than him and for the "slightly" higher offer without import drama, I am highly motivated to join the competition.
How about kicking the price at 2500 USD a pair?? (Farang Price off cause, Thais get discount, LOL)  

LOL the gringo price, nearly inescapable.

Something else for you to keep in the back of your mind: I just read somewhere that capybara leather is highly sought after for golf and baseball equipment: I thought illegal hunting of capybaras here was for meat, but it seems that in a lot of cases the meat is a by-product, the skins are worth serious money to people who want them. Apparently the leather is very strong. Extra functions, extra value, sounds like a good deal.

Tereza Okava wrote:LOL the gringo price, nearly inescapable.

Something else for you to keep in the back of your mind: I just read somewhere that capybara leather is highly sought after for golf and baseball equipment: I thought illegal hunting of capybaras here was for meat, but it seems that in a lot of cases the meat is a by-product, the skins are worth serious money to people who want them. Apparently the leather is very strong. Extra functions, extra value, sounds like a good deal.

Yes Tereza,

the leather has one significant property compared with other animal skins.
Capybara leather stretches only in one direction which makes it very suitable for gloves.
I was looking already how to make the leather, unfortunately you need some tanning chemicals that are not really appreciated on a bio farm with zero waste management plan.
Using classic tanning alternatives will drop the price or makes the leather inacceptable for these kind of buyers.
But I am looking further.

See Hes wrote:

Tereza Okava wrote:LOL the gringo price, nearly inescapable.

Something else for you to keep in the back of your mind: I just read somewhere that capybara leather is highly sought after for golf and baseball equipment: I thought illegal hunting of capybaras here was for meat, but it seems that in a lot of cases the meat is a by-product, the skins are worth serious money to people who want them. Apparently the leather is very strong. Extra functions, extra value, sounds like a good deal.

Yes Tereza,

the leather has one significant property compared with other animal skins.
Capybara leather stretches only in one direction which makes it very suitable for gloves.
I was looking already how to make the leather, unfortunately you need some tanning chemicals that are not really appreciated on a bio farm with zero waste management plan.
Using classic tanning alternatives will drop the price or makes the leather inacceptable for these kind of buyers.
But I am looking further.

I like the way you're thinking. People should definitely try alternative livestock. Capybara could be a smart move in your situation. The book recommended earlier, Microlivestock, is a staple in my library. It would be nice if they revisited the topic and updated the book, adding a lot more detail now that we're a few decades past the original publication.

While I don't have Capybara on my property, there are lots of wild Agouti and the occasional Paca. I've always considered raising Paca in the same way that most people raise pigs, because Paca are known to become very tame and loyal if you can raise them from a young enough age. I think they could be a good option in the future, but they would have to be pretty much free-range here, as the authorities are known to "decomission" wild animals that people have as pets. Most people hunt them, which is illegal. Conversely, if you also want to create some sort of unofficial wildlife refuge on your own property, including such animals that is also illegal. It's a shame, because the hunters are never caught, while those that take care of their pets are often singled-out. Many times the animals taken by authorities are essentially domesticated pets, that would not be able to fend for themselves in the wild, which makes me wonder what the authorities do with the animals once taken.

I'd be careful with the Capybara in that regard. It's hard for me to imagine an ordinary individual in any country would be able to import an animal from a different continent. I would assume you would need to be the owner of a zoo or something like that. Here in Peru, for example, it would be illegal to transport a Capybara even within the same province.

As soon as you mentioned the person in Venezuela offering a great price, my radar instantly went up. Chances are it's a scam. If you would like - I speak fluent Spanish, and my wife is a native speaker - feel free to send me a copy of the documentation from Venezuela. Maybe we could catch something. Still, I wouldn't expect that to be the problem. All the paperwork will probably be in order, and they may actually have said animals in their possession, but as soon as you send the money, the person will likely disappear, and you will receive nothing. Ideally you would go to Venezuela and see for yourself if the animals are being loaded onto the airplane.

Hi Scott,

you nailed it pretty much on the spot because scammers are nowadays everywhere and my alarm bells are permanently ringing when it comes to online business.

I am Lucky that I have many contacts due to my 40 years + working offshore and onshore and Eliza who is a long year colleague during ship mobilizations in the Caribbean, told me to come here when it's time to order.
But she was visiting a professional farm who supplies Capybara meat to the US and has no doubts that they will send the animals to Thailand but she still recommended not to use them for the transport.

She is worried that the animals are sick and the documentations could be too thin.

She wants that I come over there, choose the Capybaras, involve a 3rd party Veterinary who will do a full test that they are totally ok, deworm, vaccine and chip them and use a more professional company like "Pet Relocation" who might cost more, but can guarantee the outermost treatment during the freight plus they double check all documentations and customs declarations in beforehand, so I can pick up the animals literally at the customs in Thailand at my own return.

I agreed with her a salary lump sum of 500 USD and she still wants to look more around to find the best Capybara parents for the pups to come.
I reckon money well spent till now.

I am very keen to get from begin on the best of the best as first breeding stock so there is now way around to spend a dime in before hand.
Pennywise saving and Dollar wise foolish has killed many self-made entrepreneurs and its something I deleted out of my vocabulary.

In my other post about >long way to my dream in Thailand< I spent about 60.000 EUR (not including out of pocket expenses) just to teach my in Laws practically how Aquaponics works and now they are more fit than any graduate from the University because they faced all problems hands on.

The budget for my capybaras are set but not limited to 35000 USD so if I kick in the door to another market it will hit in properly.
If not, the Capybaras have to pay back the money by doing the maintenance works in and around the lake and in our permaculture fruit jungle.
(I expect they will take this job with outermost pleasure)
Over the years that will save a lot of expenses for gardeners, fertilizer, lawn mover machinery.......

But cheers for your comments Scott.
It is much appreciated also in Name of the other members here who cannot take a risk like I do but to secure a new market it needs many more than only a single person.
Considering Red Claw Crayfish the entire production of the world cannot even cover 25% of the Japanese demand.

Are Capybaras the new "white table cloth posh dinner" or only "pigs" lets find out together but first we need to create the market and focus how to increase and cover the demand...  

Perhaps consider sparing the beloved internet sensation and a favorite animal of mine since before the internet thought it was cool and continue the long tradition of harvesting Guinea pigs for meat, if that’s the focus, rather than what they can do for the farm.

I ate a wild one. It was tasty even though we didn't know how to cook it. We were also extremely hungry so that may have been a factor. Almost anything would have tasted good.

Many years later I met one that was a pet & the inspiration for this website. I think it might still have some useful info.  Giant Hamster

Jeff Steez wrote:Perhaps consider sparing the beloved internet sensation and a favorite animal of mine since before the internet thought it was cool and continue the long tradition of harvesting Guinea pigs for meat, if that’s the focus, rather than what they can do for the farm.

Some people give their food names and some put them on the BBQ.

Capybaras are safe to eat, taste good, have a lower environmental impact, a good meat carcass ratio, lower demand food, healthier meat than pork...........

There are some benefits beside they are gentle (If trained right) animals for pet Zoos.
But aren't  Goats also nice in pet Zoos and get eaten.

For me is food security, environmental impact but also business the main focus.
I am born as an omnivore at the begin of the food chain, hence it tastes good I will eat it beside my veggies.

One single kill can feed many, hence how many can one single kill feed if it is a tiny guinea pig?

One thing is sure, neither a pig, goat nor a capybara shall live on my farm in contained concrete boxes and have a forced life until the slaughter comes.
I will certainly take care that they get their food they love and can move, swim and sleep and do what they like to do.

I can't speak to other countries but in the US, there are Federal and State food safety laws in place that require producer facilities and labor to meet sanitary minimum requirements in order to process meat for sale to either wholesale businesses or individuals. In addition the Department of Agriculture has the mandate to inspect meats from approved facilities which can then bear the USDA label prior to sale.
There is an exemption for individuals growing their own animals for personal consumption, but selling to the public invokes the food safety laws and inspections.
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/policy/food-safety-acts/federal-meat-inspection-act

Rob Teeter wrote:I can't speak to other countries but in the US, there are Federal and State food safety laws in place that require producer facilities and labor to meet sanitary minimum requirements in order to process meat for sale to either wholesale businesses or individuals. In addition the Department of Agriculture has the mandate to inspect meats from approved facilities which can then bear the USDA label prior to sale.
There is an exemption for individuals growing their own animals for personal consumption, but selling to the public invokes the food safety laws and inspections.
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/policy/food-safety-acts/federal-meat-inspection-act

Cheers Rob,

there are also laws in Thailand and they are pretty strict but also including the treatment of the animals and feeding.
Free range is widely accepted but for my own sake I will deliver the Capybaras to a professional butcher and provide samples to the veterinary labs like it is common for pork meat.
If we consider that rats shot in rice paddies and grown in cages are one of the most expensive meats in Thailand's markets, my safety measurements will be above these standards.

Mike Barkley wrote:I ate a wild one. It was tasty even though we didn't know how to cook it. We were also extremely hungry so that may have been a factor. Almost anything would have tasted good.
Many years later I met one that was a pet & the inspiration for this website. I think it might still have some useful info.  Giant Hamster

Hi Mike,

off cause they are cute and your posts is quite a balance.

The "Big Hamster story" for all who love them in bits and wouldn't eat them but if you read the comments people humanize them.
The happiest birthday and what did Capy say?
Nothing, he/she neither realized its here 5th birthday nor he/she realized that this birthday Bamboo given was different to any other feeding time....  
C'mon people, its a wild animal. Off cause it likes grooming, petting like any other animal, but still it can be food too..  

Mike admits it tastes good and I can guarantee its not only good if you are starving.

In Venezuela the problem with "Chiguiero" is that they dry it with a lot of salt to make it a kidney busting jerky or they over-spice it with all kind of herbs and then make it pulled pork substitute.

At Eliza's house I took over the BBQ Pit at New Years eve 2001.
In Venezuela are all pubs closed that day and its an official family day where everyone celebrates with their beloved ones.

Invited to join, I was happy as it would have been the loneliest New Years evening ever.
I had to care of the construction site with three security guards, while all others have been sent back to their home country.

I soaked the Chiguiero 2 days in Butter Milk as I learned do it with Hares and Rabbits,
then I  "painted" it with my special BBQ oil mixed with, Salt, Pepper, (the main ingredients) and a little Garlic, Paprika, Bay Leaves and crushed Juniper Berries (stolen from our Camp Boss).  

The about 45 Kilogram Capybara I sponsored, was down to the bone within 3 hrs.

The Family group were about 20 People and as soon all had a full belly they called the neighbors in because Grandmother demanded they must have tried the "Chiguiero de la parrilla al estilo Alemana" (Grilled Capybara German style)

See Hes wrote:Hi Scott,

you nailed it pretty much on the spot because scammers are nowadays everywhere and my alarm bells are permanently ringing when it comes to online business.

I am Lucky that I have many contacts due to my 40 years + working offshore and onshore and Eliza who is a long year colleague during ship mobilizations in the Caribbean, told me to come here when it's time to order.
But she was visiting a professional farm who supplies Capybara meat to the US and has no doubts that they will send the animals to Thailand but she still recommended not to use them for the transport.

She is worried that the animals are sick and the documentations could be too thin.

She wants that I come over there, choose the Capybaras, involve a 3rd party Veterinary who will do a full test that they are totally ok, deworm, vaccine and chip them and use a more professional company like "Pet Relocation" who might cost more, but can guarantee the outermost treatment during the freight plus they double check all documentations and customs declarations in beforehand, so I can pick up the animals literally at the customs in Thailand at my own return.

I agreed with her a salary lump sum of 500 USD and she still wants to look more around to find the best Capybara parents for the pups to come.
I reckon money well spent till now.

I am very keen to get from begin on the best of the best as first breeding stock so there is now way around to spend a dime in before hand.
Pennywise saving and Dollar wise foolish has killed many self-made entrepreneurs and its something I deleted out of my vocabulary.

In my other post about >long way to my dream in Thailand< I spent about 60.000 EUR (not including out of pocket expenses) just to teach my in Laws practically how Aquaponics works and now they are more fit than any graduate from the University because they faced all problems hands on.

The budget for my capybaras are set but not limited to 35000 USD so if I kick in the door to another market it will hit in properly.
If not, the Capybaras have to pay back the money by doing the maintenance works in and around the lake and in our permaculture fruit jungle.
(I expect they will take this job with outermost pleasure)
Over the years that will save a lot of expenses for gardeners, fertilizer, lawn mover machinery.......

But cheers for your comments Scott.
It is much appreciated also in Name of the other members here who cannot take a risk like I do but to secure a new market it needs many more than only a single person.
Considering Red Claw Crayfish the entire production of the world cannot even cover 25% of the Japanese demand.

Are Capybaras the new "white table cloth posh dinner" or only "pigs" lets find out together but first we need to create the market and focus how to increase and cover the demand...  

I'm surprised there's actually a market for capybara meat in the US. Didn't expect there to be any demand for it.

What grass species do you have growing on your pastures? I find it hard to find answers about which fodder species are suitable for any given alternative livestock.

On my property the goal is similar to yours: Find a livestock that can maintain the herbaceous growth amongst all our small trees in our food forest, which was planted in pasture of primarily Brachiaria spp. That species of grass is rather toxic to non-ruminants, due to steroidal compounds, and can even kill hair sheep if they are not already accustomed to consuming that grass. Nevertheless, there are examples of research articles where sheep successfully graze pastures of Brachiaria without getting ill. Anyway, that's what I'm leaning towards right now, hair sheep, because there is a local government research program source of Pelibuey/Dorper hybrids, and they are a lot smaller than cows, meaning we can experiment sooner without worrying so much about damage to the small trees, and they are also much cheaper.

I'm always open to other ideas though, so I'd be curious if Capybara could handle these grasses. One consideration is always whether or not the animals will de-bark trees, or actively topple smaller trees in order to reach the upper vegetation. I think the drawback with the capybara is that we don't have any large bodies of water for them other than our boundary creeks, but they would be nearly impossible to contain once inside the creek, and could escape to neighboring properties or even end up further downstream in major rivers. We are in the foothills of the mountains, so we only have a couple tiny duck ponds here and there. I doubt they would be sufficient for the capybara. I don't even think the tiny ponds would withstand the pressure from cattle either.

The main constraint is thousands of unprotected small fruit trees everywhere. It's hard to find working examples of people maintaining this kind of landscape without using weedwackers with brush blades.

Jeff Steez wrote:Perhaps consider sparing the beloved internet sensation and a favorite animal of mine since before the internet thought it was cool and continue the long tradition of harvesting Guinea pigs for meat, if that’s the focus, rather than what they can do for the farm.

Here in the high jungle of Peru, we are turning our attention to this possibility. I think it makes a lot of sense from a cashflow point of view, since we can cut & carry basically their entire diet. No feed cost inputs is a huge factor in any of our decision-making here. The building where we would raise them is surrounded by plenty of their favorite fodder plants. They do require shelter, and clean bedding. Plus cut-and-carry can be a little time-consuming. Still, they are not useful to maintain the broad acre.

I'm surprised there's actually a market for capybara meat in the US. Didn't expect there to be any demand for it.

It was the boyfriend of our housemaid who is a high class chef, he pushed me with the nose on it.
I had pigs on my plan well knowing they are very destructive.
Then I have seen the price per Kilo of Capybara meat, which indicates there is a high demand and not only in the United States

What grass species do you have growing on your pastures? I find it hard to find answers about which fodder species are suitable for any given alternative livestock.

Lucky I just bought the land and working on my business plan. The lake will be 5000 sqm rough and as erosion control I plant Vetiver Grass. It can be used as fodder. Beside the common Reeds, Elephant Grass and herbs that come in with the wind. The Land has been sugar cane and rice fields which pops up in random places.
The only issue is scurvy, because Capybaras cannot produce Vitamin C, here comes my fruit Forest in the game. I was always keen to collect trees (seeds) from trees that fruit all seasons or at least different seasons

On my property the goal is similar to yours: Find a livestock that can maintain the herbaceous growth amongst all our small trees in our food forest,
I'm always open to other ideas though, so I'd be curious if Capybara could handle these grasses. One consideration is always whether or not the animals will de-bark trees, or actively topple smaller trees in order to reach the upper vegetation. I think the drawback with the capybara is that we don't have any large bodies of water for them other than our boundary creeks, but they would be nearly impossible to contain once inside the creek, and could escape to neighboring properties or even end up further downstream in major rivers. We are in the foothills of the mountains, so we only have a couple tiny duck ponds here and there. I doubt they would be sufficient for the capybara. I don't even think the tiny ponds would withstand the pressure from cattle either.

Valuable Trees have to be protected by fence rings around and beside offer them Moringa, Leuceana and other fast growing trees that the Capybaras and the goats can gnarl on. You need anyway nitrogen fixer for a healthy forest and some are brilliant fodder too.
Goats and Capybaras eat different stuff and together they should control a lot of the growth, add fowls (Chicken & Co) to them and you have predators for bugs and tics that harm your animals.
Look at Zoos how big their ponds are, as long a Capybara can submerge fully it has what it needs.


Because I want the our housemaid and her boyfriend taking over the trade of our products he is fully into this idea, especially after I designed the Aquaponics System for Red Claw Crayfish (and proved that it works) and now Capybaras. That gets us standing well off the crowd..

A couple things to add to the discussion, as I have raised pigs myself on a relatively small piece of land:

- To truly "free range" pigs or any other livestock would require a very large amount of land, so the animals could migrate naturally from one area to another allowing grazed areas to regenerate
- Intensive rotational grazing is much more productive, and in most cases better for the land being used, as the animals always get new fresh growth, and the land is evenly manured, and allowed to fully recover before being grazed again.
- Pigs are only as destructive as you allow them to be. If there is fresh growth on the surface, they will choose to eat that instead of digging, but once the surface vegetation is gone, they will start rooting for food if not moved to a new area. The exception is if they don't have a nice cool place with water to escape the heat. They will dig down to get to cooler soil to lay in and cool off.
- Pigs, and what I know of capybaras, need shade to thrive. Pigs absolutely have to have both shade and constant access to water to either swim or roll in, as they cannot sweat, and will quickly overheat without it. So having mature trees near you pond(s) should likely be a consideration.
-  A lot of your considerations depend on the scale you have in mind. How many animals do you want to raise/process/sell at a time? Then you have to figure in reproduction rates and growth rates to determine how many animals your land would need to support at once. That itself may help you determine whether pigs, capybaras or even a combination of the two is the best choice for you.

See Hes wrote:
Because I want the our housemaid and her boyfriend taking over the trade of our products he is fully into this idea, especially after I designed the Aquaponics System for Red Claw Crayfish (and proved that it works) and now Capybaras. That gets us standing well off the crowd..

Will & See, are you interested in providing any information on your Crayfish system?  We're shopping land in Philippines now and plan to do something similar to you but with more focus on small resort with adjacent permaculture.  I'd like to include crayfish.  I likely won't have enough land for a large lake at the "resort" (we're looking at 5,000-8,000m total land), but we also only need enough to feed ourselves and a small number of guests.  I'll likely purchase small farm near by for sugarcane, bamboo, bananas, cassava, etc.  I'm trying to figure out if can multilayer IBC tank grow or if I would need 4 rice fields and rotate so I can get full 3 year growth on the crawfish (plus a little rice).

I have experience with small scale 2 IBC aquaponics system Koi and ran a hydroponics system off of the aquaponics water as well, but was really just experimenting to get some experience.  Would love to see what you did, how it worked and get any "lessons learned" you'd be willing to share regarding crayfish.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

In have sent you a purple Moosage as crays is a bit off topic.
A lake is not necessary but a creek with crays could add a nice relaxing water play in your resort.
Crays are more than happy with that..

Cray vs Fish equals Squaremeters vs Cubicmeters.
(meaning for crays you must think at bottom dwellers, while fish will be in all pond levels...)  

Sure is in a "natural" environment they grow faster and bigger than in tanks..

My two posts are a reflection what I did first (Trial and Error)

https://permies.com/t/139668/permaculture/long-dream-Thailand

And the Lessons learned are in our actual project we started 8 years after the start of part one..

https://permies.com/t/205283/permaculture/long-dream-Thailand-Part

when I touch something I plan very detailed, before I spend a coin or hit the ground with a spade... The plan took 8 years...

Hi See Hes,

I see this thread has been inactive for a while but I'm replying so I'll be notified when you update it.

I was doing a little googling and was delighted to see that another crazy farang has had the same idea of farming giant guinea pigs in Thailand.

It's something I've been thinking about a lot for the last year or so, to the point that my girlfriend now just rolls her eyes when she hears the word "capybara". I like to tease her by pointing out all the nice plots of land with ponds that would make good capybara farms as we're driving around.

Anyway, I can see that your project is more than just a pipe dream and that you've done your research and even have some potential leads for acquiring breeding stock, which is fantastic. I'll admit I didn't think baby capys would be so expensive... I know you can buy them at chatuchak market but I'd never looked into the price. It did occur to me that as a result of their being so few capys in Thailand, the ones you can purchase here may be quite inbred so it's probably better to get your breeding stock from South America.

My reasons for wanting to breed capybaras here are very similar to yours; Thailand with its wet climate and  lush vegetation seems like an ideal habitat for them where they could thrive and breed prolifically, Thai people consume a lot of pork which isn't the healthiest of meats and whose ecological impact can be quite disastrous, so if the capybara trend catches on it could contribute to local food security and ecological preservation. Capybaras can digest cellulose so they're a lot easier to feed than pigs, all while yielding a better quality meat. I haven't been able to find any info on this but one of my thoughts was that they could be fed straw from sugar cane. I know you have to be careful giving them too much sugar in the form of fruit as it can mess up their digestion but perhaps with all the sugary juice squeezed out it could provide a very cheap source of fodder for larger scale farms. The flour left over from coconut milk production could also be good for fattening them up if squeezed into pellets.

I've been fascinated by these creatures since meeting one that was kept as a pet by a shaman near Iquitos in Peru about six years ago. I was amazed at how gentle and tame it was, a lot like a dog really. I later found out that it had got into a fight with a dog and disemboweled it and so the family decided to eat it. The Facebook friend who told me all this said the meat was excellent.

Currently I'm not at all in any position financially to start a permaculture project but it is one of my long term life goals. I'd like to have something up and running by the time I'm 40 (I'm 31 now). I'm based in Hua Hin and my idea was to create a capybara cafe where people could pay 50 baht to feed the animals a carrot and get some photos. There are a lot of tourists here and people seem to have more disposable income than elsewhere in Thailand so I think with a bit of social media promotion it could do well, even if people have to drive a bit to get to it.

I'd like to also suggest that you document this project with a YouTube channel, as I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) would be very interested in watching. Capybaras are kind of a "meme" animal so any videos with capys on the thumbnails are guaranteed to get clicks. You could use the ad revenue and sell merchandise to help fund the business. Check out the Urban Rescue Ranch on YouTube, he has a few capys and nearly 3 million subscribers.

Hope to hear from you soon

Henry

Hi Henry,

I have been a bit around in Thailand too...

There are a few "obstackles"

1st:  
Thais are a bit burnt in the past farming Nutrias for the Fur Industry.
They got promised the "blue from the sky" and especially one farm made it into the head lines.
The owner simply left his farm and 100s of Nutrias died from starvation, others escaped into the -over miles -surrounding rice fields and do a good job ransacking them.
As this came out the people "rescued" the remaining ones which were alive and helped themselfes to a free BBQ or if the poor animals were in an irreparable condition they got culled..

2nd:
Rabbits, some folks had the idea to introduce Rabbits into the food market, with no success, because in the eyes of the Thais, these long ears are kuddle pets and not for eating...
I love Rabbits in Gravvy but I had only once the chance to buy 2 in Pattaya in a Supermarket...
Btw: my wife refused to try them and prefers some nice fat rice field rats, after the rice is harvested or other more traditional critters that coudln't escape within 5 seconds into a tree or diving 5 meters deep...

3 rd:
It will be a hard walk to establish a market because you need to find the "eaters before the buyers"
Where we are back to rabbits... (Capys are always the highlight in Zoos for some extraordinay selfie shots...)
I haven't still not managed to get one single Capy chop for the BBQ to ask at least my farm Gang and wife how that tastes to them.
I guess it will be Rabbit again, (fine, leaves more for myself....)

For myself:
The idea is not off the table but I have the advantage that my trees need to grow first to a Capy safe size.
That can be another 4-6 years.
For so long I can do more research.
If completed and it looks in any direction doable, my next step are consulting the "authorities" who might have a big word against them, after the Nutria disaster.

For my Yabbies the Department for Fisheries asked me to surrond my complete turf with a 1300 meter wall - 30 cm minimum height.
I am building at the moment.
And I build it 60 cm to please the DoF and then a fence of 150 cm on top to avoid nocturnal "buyers" giving an easy way.
On top of that I developed a hot and cold wire set up that will stop some free roaming "customers" like rats and snakes cilmbing any higher than the wall..
This costs about XMillion Baht (excluding landscaping and water inside the fence or by now ruff 28 Rai).....

The next step would be the BOI but they won't show any interest if you not provide a signature and seal detailled business plan, plus the iron will to invest YOUR XXMillions...

Too many farangs kicking their door in with an "idea" roaming their heads and if asked for a Business Plan they might provide a few sheets of paper in a paper folder, but there is nothing written about turnover and rentability prognosis period incl. the return of investment time because they are not even capable to explain, where the cash from the last decades are gone..
(No worries, its still there, just in other hands)

The end is:
the plan busts, the farang is suffering with his Capybaras... and the result has been written and documented with the Nutria farm...

How far I am?
I am still at the point of research and continue.

I am 42 years offshore worker and run my job as a traveeling Freelancer, since 22 years very successfully from Thailand.
Do the math and you see that I am very strictly planning over and over again, before I touch some risk.

There are youg people like you, who have been successful with 31 years of age, but unfortunatley that are only 0.01% foreigners who tried something not from their home country.
Most didn't make more than 3 month, (back to the Nutria farm ....and 1000000 Bars and Restaurants)

Appreciate it as a honest and fair critic from a very experienced expat businessman in the age of 61...

Sure I have meanwhile some points that speaks pro Capybaras, but as business life is, these are kept understandably in my concept and will not be given out to the permies...  

If other expats in Thailand overwhelm you with positive and motivating vibes, which are better to digest than my words above, ask first how long they are already living in Thailand.
It takes 7 hrs to become an expat and say "I am gone",
but it takes 7 years to say. "I am here"
then calculate another 5 years hard hard work to pull you out of the "mess" you have created during your learning time...

After that period the built up finacial buffer (not finacial security) can be disappearing into nothing if touched wrong..

good luck

Will

Thanks for your well thought out reply. Just to be clear, I don't plan on ever making a living off capybaras in Thailand - the capybara cafe would be let's say, a "vanity project", funded with money I could comfortably afford to sit back and watch burn. If I ever do end up with some land for a permaculture project here I'd start off with a few capys to keep the grass down and fertilise the soil and if I can convince any Thais to try my cabybara krapaow and they like it, then I'd think about trying to sell the meat and breeding more for that purpose.

For myself:
The idea is not off the table but I have the advantage that my trees need to grow first to a Capy safe size.
That can be another 4-6 years.
For so long I can do more research.

That fits quite well with the rough timeline I've set for myself so perhaps I'll be able to buy some of your pups if you do go through with this

If other expats in Thailand overwhelm you with positive and motivating vibes, which are better to digest than my words above, ask first how long they are already living in Thailand.

I know how dismally low the success rate is for farang owned brick and mortar businesses here so like I said above, I wouldn't start one here with money I couldn't afford to lose and I definitely wouldn't put other people's money at risk. For now I'll just keep on making money online until I have enough to play around with.

I've had a look at your other threads and what you're doing up in Isaan looks amazing. Wishing you and your wife all the best

Regarding Permaculture I am not fearing competition but appreciate any followers who want to learn or pick our lads and lasses brain on site.
(Or mine after my return from my last year offshore in September 2024)

So visitors are always welcome to see and have a walkaround on our farm in the pre succession stage.

https://www.google.com/maps/@16.438043,103.0856743,388m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

all the best for you project..

Thanks for the invitation, I'd love to come and visit when you're back in Thailand!