Welcome Darrell Frey author of Bioshelter Market Garden

This week Darrell Frey will be joining us to answer our questions about bioshelters, permaculture design, growing food, and much more.

There are up to four copies of his book Bioshelter Market Garden up for grabs.

Darrell himself will be popping into the forum over the next few days answering questions and joining in discussions.

From now through this Friday, any posts in this forum, ie the greenhouses forum, could be selected to win.

To win, you must use a name that follows our naming policy and you must have your email set up in Paul's daily-ish email..

The winners will be notified by email and must respond within 24 hours.

His website is http://www.bioshelter.com/

Posts in this thread won't count, but please feel free to say hi to Darrell and make him feel at home!

Welcome Darrell Frey to our blog! I look forward to reading your book about the Bioshelter Market Garden!
Will it work in Colorado Springs at 6500 feet?
Sidney

Welcome Darrell,
I have lurking here on Permies, but when I saw the Three Sisters Farm come up on the link I had to drop a line and say HELLO, as I love, love, love your site. Looking forward to the visit.
Carole

That book sounds really interesting. I think I might just have to pick it up.

Welcome - look forward to reading your book.... Need all the help I can get!
Jackie Isler

So nice of you to come visit at Permies, Darrell!

I am rapidly building my permaculture bookshelf, and your book is at the top of my list for new acquisitions. I am particularly interested because I live in eastern Quebec (Zone 3b), where extending the season is going to be key to our food production efforts.

One of my goals for the next five years is to establish a chicken coop/greenhouse that is self-heating in the winter. Our winters are fierce and the wind can be horrendous, so I am wondering if this is going to be feasible at all. (We are gradually planting and growing windbreaks all over our 1.25 acre site, with lots of planting planned for this spring, but one of the reasons for waiting for the greenhouse/coop is to wait until the windbreaks are providing some real protection.)

Hence, my questions: Does your greenhouse/chicken coop require a supplemental heat source in winter? Would an in-greenhouse hot compost help significantly? Can enough garden waste be produced in the greenhouse to feed the chickens over winter (i.e., how much production space would be needed to feed one chicken on the green material)? Finally, do you grow your own chicken feed (millet, sunflower, amaranth, etc.) and, if so, how much space per chicken is needed? We would be satisfied if we could keep the chickens alive and producing eggs over winter, even if we ate nothing from the greenhouse during that season ourselves.

I know I'm asking for details and speculation, but I would love to read your thoughts on these questions.

Many thanks!

Heidi

Enjoyed your presentation at Seven Springs, PA for the Mother Earth News Fair. I bought your book and plan to eventually include a bioshelter on our farm. Glad to see you on Permies!

Hi Darrell, Glad to see someone on here from the EAST COAST! We plan on moving out to the Northern Virginia Blue ridge Mountains soon and figure it to be similar to the Penn. area. Looking forward to hearing your side of the story(ies).

Welcome and your info is doubly welcome
Be well
Matt

Interested in your book and what you think would need to be adapted for use in coastal Maine. Making the decision in the next few months as to what we will build for extending the season and supporting our chickens. Thanks for all the work you do and sharing it with us.

Welcome Darrell, looking forward to yet another view on greenhouses. I'm planning one now and enjoy reading many different approaches. Im planning an attached pit greenhouse and am debating on open to house vs just venting to house. I could get two levels if totally open. could close off if vented. Its going to have 16'x 12'ish footprint plus extend 10' under currant sun room that could be second level. Any thoughts ?

Hello Darrell! Long time no see. Brooke Cuttino here, I was an MS3 student in '01-'03, grad assistant at the Macoskey Center. Glad to see you getting the good word out! Very happy to hear you're so involved. Much love, and good luck.

Heidi,
Good morning. It may be difficult to design a bioshelter with no back up heat in a very cold climate. If it is earth sheltered, well insulated and you have daily sun it may be possible. My book and other solar design references expain how to caluculate heat gain, heat storage and heat loss. If the average heat loss exceeds heat gain and storage capacity then you need bak up heat. Windbreaks will help for sure. Composting in the greenhouse and body heat from chickens , both known as biothermal energy, can add considerable heat. The gas from the compost may need filtered to remove ammonia if you are composting high nitrogen materials like manure. Growing your feed in the bioshelter? We feed our chickens fresh greens most every day, but we mainly feed a mix of grains from a local organic flour mill. The mill sells us "scraps" from the milling process . We also buy chicken feed mixed by regional organic farmers. I do aspire to set up more of our own feed production. Sunflowers would be a great feed, mixedwith small grains. In my case time and labor has been a limit
Back to the unheated greenhouse. If you do not care about freezing, growning crops like kales, mache, chervil, and other greens that can handle mild frost, and you design a well sealed and insulated building, with plenty of thermal mass it may not matter to have supplemental heat. We have a large collection of tender plants, experiment with tropical fruit, and have peppers, basils and tomatoes all winter, and indoor plumbing, so we use firewood to supplement solar gain.

Good luck,
Darrell

Margaret,
If you do a search for New Alchemy Institute, you will find bioshelters' they built on Prince Edward Island and Cape Cod. These buildings , and Solviva on Martha's Vineyard, were in a similar climate and used minimal back up heat when they had good sunlight for solar gain.

Thank you so much, Darrell! What a fast and comprehensive reply! Your suggestions provide tremendous "real-world" input that will be invaluable in setting up our system.

Although a pit greenhouse is not a possibility here (we are on rock), I will find a way to incorporate earth-sheltered (or at least straw-sheltered) lower walls. I am definitely going to have to sit down and do some calculations before finalizing my plans. I am now wondering what I could do with a micro-windmill to provide heating and light...!

Thanks once again!

Heidi

Dave,
Plants can handle a wider range of humidity and temperature than people . So it is best to be able to control the air exchange between greenhouse and house. Our bioshelter does not have a big humidity problem, but it can get rather cool. So heat exchange control is more important

Sidney ,
In Colorado you may want to check the work or Jerome Osentoski in Basalt. Again, greenhouse design is a balance of solar gain, heat staaorage and insulation/ well sealed building. The more sun you have balanced with thermal mass to store heat, the better your building will preform. Sustainable design is site specific

How does this book compare to Eliot Coleman's books? Sounds interesting.

Everybody, please post your questions in the greenhouses forum. You can put "Question for Darrell" in the title to help him find the question.

welcome to the forum darrell. fascinating topic!

Just learned about your book. Looks very interesting especially the details about extending season. Definitely goes on my wish list.

Darrel, From SouthEastern Minnesota would like to welcome you to our site .

After sixty years have purchased five acres in Spring Valley, Minnesota. Believe it is time to get away from the rat race and get back to Mother Earth. Will be reading, quite intensly, your words and answers to others questions.

Cafemocha

Darrell, Welcome to the forum. I am amazed at the wealth of information I can always learn reading posts and answers - lots of knowledge and smart people here!! Thank you!

Welcome!
I am a newcomer to permaculture and am WOWed by your site. I am undertaking my first design this spring on a small community plot, there is so much information out there to absorb! I thank you for your work to build a happier, greener world!

Welcome Darrell! I have been reading through the forum and have already gained some valuable information. I am at the stage now where I am just gleaning as much information and experience as I can until I have a place to do it. Part of that is deciding where to settle. I am set on being in or very near the mountains, which means cold and possibly high elevation. So I am particularly interested in learning about your bioshelter methods as I continue to design my future homestead. Meanwhile, I am lving at a start-up intentional community and have already begun to practice natural building. This will be a great resource for the folks here as well. Thanks!

Welcome, Darrell! Thanks for joining us here! Looking forward to your insight on this important topic in our northern climate.

I wonder if it's similar to these earth-powered greenhouses: http://www.perpetualgreengardens.com/earth-powered-greenhouses.html

I've been lurking permies.com for a couple years now.. figured this is as good a time as any to register and get involved. Whether I luck out with winning the book or purchase it in the future, I'm sure it will be a valuable resource (as is this site).

Look forward to asking Darrell some questions & being involved in permies' discussions.

Darrell,

I like the idea of combining a house and greenhouse. I envision having a straw bale structure combined with an uphill, south facing, earth sheltered greenhouse, using a rocket mass heater for supplemental heat. I have two questions about this idea.

Do you think it is feasible to have the kitchen ONLY in the greenhouse and still be able to maintain comfortable kitchen climate during winter (zone 8b)?

Do you have ideas on how to easily and effectively provide adequate ventilation during the summer?

I recall hearing (I believe from Bill Mollison) that an attached greenhouse with an energy efficient home can potentially be miserable during summer months.

This sounds like exactly the kind of book I need. We are in greenhouse planning stages. I live in Northern BC; we get really long daylight hours in summer, and very short in winter. I live "near" the coast, so the temperatures are moderated, but still can occasionally get down to -30 C in winter, and it is often overcast. I love the idea of keeping my chickens in a greenhouse in the winter-- their coop is in a forested area and we have to keep a light on to get any eggs in the winter. Considering my situation, do you think a greenhouse would even be a viable option for winter greens and electricity free eggs? I don't know anybody around here who keep greens through winter, other gardeners have said they would have to use lighting, which would be much too expensive.

On the subject of Chickens and supplemental heat/ light, could one make biogas with the chicken droppings, then burn that for light/heat? The solid matter would remain and could still be composted,for more heat.
Excess gas could be used to heat water, which would act as a heat sink.
As for chicken feed, if the green house could be kept warm enough, this could be the perfect place to use Kudzu. I think it has high protein, and of course it grows like crazy.
Post biogas production chicken poop, and other compost inputs could support meal worms, BSF, or red wigglers.
I wonder if one could get frogs to spawn in such a n enclosure. If so tadpoles could feed on algae, mature, and escape the "pond" to their doom at the beaks of chickens.

My dream has been to build a greenhouse for many years.
I am moving this fall to a place where I can actually build one!

Morana Revel

Yeah Darrell!!! Love ya man!

(I spent last summer at Three Sister's interning, definitely a wonderful experience.)

Hi Darrell,

I took my PDC with you at Slippery Rock back in 87 or 88 I can't remember
you were still building the bioshelter and used it as our design project

good to see your still hanging in there

Duane,
Hi. Hope all good with you. i hope i am a much better teacher now! But that was a good beginning

So I ran the winner picker app in the forum software and the winners are ...


Heidi Hoff
and
Kim Hill


Congratulations Heidi and Kim!

I sent you an email to ask for the email address of the person that first referred you to Permies.com. That person (if qualified) will also get a copy of the book.

Adrien Lapointe wrote:So I ran the winner picker app in the forum software and the winners are ...


Heidi Hoff
and
Kim Hill


Congratulations Heidi and Kim!

I sent you an email to ask for the email address of the person that first referred you to Permies.com. That person (if qualified) will also get a copy of the book.

Wowwie Zowwie! I cannot believe I got some awesome answers from Darrell and his book to boot! Only a few days past my birthday, what a gift I am so looking forward to using this wonderful reference in planning my greenhouse project. Wow, what can I say but Thank You for this giveaway. Kim

Add my thanks to Kim's! What fun to win the book after Darrell has already been so helpful answering my beginner's questions.

Heidi