Salvador Ibáñez mandolin (is it okay to play a 100 year old instrument?)

There is, what appears to my eye, a Salvador Ibáñez mandolin at the local thrift store.  Should I get it?

I think they don't know what it is,because it's priced at what we would expect for a modern Ibanez mandolin.  It's definitely not modern.

Before Hoshino Gakki bought the name and started making the Ibanez lines of guitar and other string instruments in Japan, there was Salvador who made amazing instruments in Spain named after himself.  From what I can tell, he has some reputation among classical guitar players.  He did make some mandolin, but not many survived.  

The materials used in the construction of this thrift store mandolin speak to early 20th century, especially the cellulose used to make the tuner handles which is the early fake ivory..the kind that used to explode when dropped.  Given the construction and from what I can tell, it's circa 1920 (materials date as early as 1870s but the label speaks to later years, and the cellulose plastic phases out with the rise of bakerlite in the 1910s).  Made by him, or more likely, his sons who weren't so good at it and made less adorned instruments.

Anyway



My thoughts run like this.

That's an amazing price for a Salvador ibáñez, even a simple one.  I'll never find something that good a value again.

But no provenance, so no point investing in it for the resale value as it's unlikely to be great and there aren't enough like this on the market to even know what kind of resale price is possible.

And I don't even know how to play the mandolin.   Sure, i want to one day, but the guitar and ukulele have stolen all my time and I'm determined to conquer these two before getting distracted by another instrument.

It could hang on the wall as art.

And the money would come out of my guitar savings fund, but then again, it is saving faster than I expected, so it has come at a good time.  Is it fate?

And wow, wouldn't it be cool to make a 100 year old instrument play again?  It looks like the only issue is stiff tuners, a lot of dust, minor scuffs, and old strings.

Maybe they have low tension strings for mandolin to baby it.

Is it even okay to play music on something that old?

But wow, what a history and that's an amazing price...

Round and round my thoughts do spin like a scratched LP.  Anyone want to try to nudge the needle?

My husband has played my Great-Grandmother's mandolin. It's at my parents' house, so I'm not sure how old it is...but my great-grandma was born in 1899, so it's probably about 100 years old.

My husband just tunes the mandolin as a guitar and plays it that way. No one was ever concerned about it being damaged, and it is a pretty wall art as well as fun to play.

I'd have to ask him more about it (he's the musician, not me), but I'd get the mandolin!

I asked my husband, and he said:

Each instrument ages differently but after being cleaned up it should be playable at 100. Mandolins are pretty stout. Tuners might need brushed and oiled or just replaced. Strings should be replaced at least annually, and finer strings are always easier on the instrument and player.

I believe, with the exception of toys and some of the bottom-barrel cheapo stuff from China, most musical instruments are "durable goods" and are intended to be playable so long as they are in decent shape. A 100 year-old instrument hasn't gotten frail the way a 100 year-old person has. Just a bit dusty maybe.

So, instruments are a buy it for life kind of object?

looks like solid advise on how to unstick tuning gears

Tuners on old mandolins often become difficult to turn, but don't force them-- adjust them. If your tuners have screws holding the spur gears in place on the back (most do), those can be used for tension adjustment:

Turn the mandolin over and put a small drop of oil on each tuner, at the junction of the spur gear and the worm gear. Then, use a screwdriver to make sure those four spur-gear screws on each side are tightened enough to hold themselves in securely, but not enough to bind the tuner so it won't turn. (If the tuners are old and corroded or just stuck, you might loosen all four gear-screws on each side and turn each tuner's shaft a lot of times-- with a string-winder if necessary-- until they all turn smoothly, and then tighten each screw again until it's snug.)

Re-check the gear screws from time to time to make sure they aren't either too tight for the tuner to turn easily, or loose enough to fall out.

Also, while we're on the subject of making the instrument easier to tune, you might put a bit of graphite (pencil lead is inelegant but works fine) in the bottom of the A and E strings' nut-slots whenever you change your strings, or every few months between changes, especially in the summer. This will help the strings slide through the nut properly, and keep you from false alarms wondering if you need new tuners.

I noticed the gears would losen but not tighten, so if I go for it, new strings and gentle effort to get the tuners moving again seem a good path.  The tuner handles with the same material aren't available any more and I like the idea of keeping them safe.

This might be interesting, restoring an old Ibáñez mandolin. It appears this mandolin was in rather rough shape: https://www.mandolincafe.net/home/forum/instruments-and-equipment/builders-and-repair/140697-restoring-a-mandolin-by-salvador-ibanez-e-hijos?t=138413

I currently play a 65 year old guitar...

r ransom wrote:So, instruments are a buy it for life kind of object?

It depends on how you treat them! If you take your instrument outside, play it in the rain, bang it on things, etc, it might not keep sounding great forever. My husband has had a Seagull guitar for around 20 years. It still plays and sounds decent, but I bought him a new one last year. His old one had been played outside, gotten banged on by kids, got dropped a few time. We've fixed cracks in it, repaired the neck, and re-stained it over the years to keep it sounding good. And, it's still playable and sounds good to me. But, it's not as nice as the new Seagull I got him. It's all in how you treat them!

I'm surprised by the topic title, because musicians have long prized old instruments of high quality. Stradivarius died long ago, but many of his violins live on. Besides, speaking as an 80-year-old, a century-old instrument doesn't seem all that old!

r ransom wrote:There is, what appears to my eye, a Salvador Ibáñez mandolin at the local thrift store.  Should I get it?

I think they don't know what it is,because it's priced at what we would expect for a modern Ibanez mandolin.  It's definitely not modern.

Before Hoshino Gakki bought the name and started making the Ibanez lines of guitar and other string instruments in Japan, there was Salvador who made amazing instruments in Spain named after himself.  From what I can tell, he has some reputation among classical guitar players.  He did make some mandolin, but not many survived.  

The materials used in the construction of this thrift store mandolin speak to early 20th century, especially the cellulose used to make the tuner handles which is the early fake ivory..the kind that used to explode when dropped.  Given the construction and from what I can tell, it's circa 1920 (materials date as early as 1870s but the label speaks to later years, and the cellulose plastic phases out with the rise of bakerlite in the 1910s).  Made by him, or more likely, his sons who weren't so good at it and made less adorned instruments.

Anyway



My thoughts run like this.

That's an amazing price for a Salvador ibáñez, even a simple one.  I'll never find something that good a value again.

But no provenance, so no point investing in it for the resale value as it's unlikely to be great and there aren't enough like this on the market to even know what kind of resale price is possible.

And I don't even know how to play the mandolin.   Sure, i want to one day, but the guitar and ukulele have stolen all my time and I'm determined to conquer these two before getting distracted by another instrument.

It could hang on the wall as art.

And the money would come out of my guitar savings fund, but then again, it is saving faster than I expected, so it has come at a good time.  Is it fate?

And wow, wouldn't it be cool to make a 100 year old instrument play again?  It looks like the only issue is stiff tuners, a lot of dust, minor scuffs, and old strings.

Maybe they have low tension strings for mandolin to baby it.

Is it even okay to play music on something that old?

But wow, what a history and that's an amazing price...

Round and round my thoughts do spin like a scratched LP.  Anyone want to try to nudge the needle?

I have several old instruments. Right now, my tenor banjo is 100 years old and solid as a rock.  Generally, a quality old instrument is much better made with better woods than new ones.  I LOVE them.  Mandolins are a little tricky though, because of the high tension of the strings.  Make sure there is absolutely no warping or bowing of the top.  That is the biggest issue.  Seems can be reglued.  Get a dental mirror and a flashlight and check the bracings.  Bracings can also be reglued, but if they are separating from the top, that could indicate a problem.  Look down the neck from the nut to the bridge and make sure everything is level.  isten for rattles and buzzes.  If everything is sound, I'd go for it.

[sorry to edit so many times]

r ransom wrote:So, instruments are a buy it for life kind of object?

As I understand the term "buy it for life" it means "buy a good one that will last instead of a cheap crappy one that won't". In my opinion, that is a good strategy for step 2 in a 2-step process:

Step 1: You are just getting into an activity, and it requires an object/tool. You don't know yet how to discern quality, and you aren't yet sure if the activity is really something you're going to get seriously into. There are a lot of unknowns and unknown unknowns. The most appropriate way to acquire the object/tool at this stage is either to borrow one or buy the cheapest one that is viable to the task. A toy is not good enough, but a cheap knockoff entry-level whatever-it-is, usually is. A low-risk investment to get you started and see if you want to continue. If you decide "this activity isn't for me" you don't have a lot of sunk costs.

Step 2: You are definitely moving forward with the activity, you have discovered or confronted the limitations of your initial investment, and your knowledge has increased considerably. Now you for sure need a serious object/tool that will support your serious pursuit of the activity. This is the time to "buy it for life". Buy used if you can find something in good condition for less money, but buy quality. It will pay dividends.

(There's probably a Step 3 that involves deciding whether to repair or replace if the object/tool you bought in step 2 breaks or gets worn out.)

(The above is only my interpretation of the phrase "buy it for life". It might be totally wrong.)

I believe Jay Ungar plays a 180-ish-year-old fiddle, made in the 1840s.