I did it wrong. How can I fix it?

TL;DR

Lesson learned. I fell for the temptation to combine two permaculture tools (Hugelkultur beds and swales) into one for double the benefit. Thankfully, I realized my mistake before the point of no return.

Longer version

I hand dug two "Hugelswales" before watching Paul's 3hr+ Hugelkultur lecture on YouTube and realized I'd made a mistake. I'm in Minnesota Zone 4b. My backyard slopes south towards my house. The soil is very sandy, and we live ~400ft. from a river. Lots of oaks, basswood, cottonwood, buckthorn, and maple trees. The yard itself is just lawn with some trees and a circular little flower bed.

The question
What should I do with the area instead? Will the “frost pocket” problem hurt too much, seeing as I’m in MN? I'll have to do more digging, but I'm thinking... perhaps a sun scoop Hugel? I don't know. This is my first garden. I've been around permaculture people a lot ~15 years ago and I've been reading/dreaming about it for a long time, but this is the first opportunity I have where I have access to plenty of resources, have the land, time, and energy.

Oh, and does it matter if hugels are built level or not? Trying to make them level was one of the reasons I originally dug the trenches on contour...

I don't see how this would be a problem. If you had more slope there might be a problem with washing out, but that yard looks flat enough. I'd fill those suckers up with wood to at least two feet above ground level and cover that with the dirt you've dug out and you'll be good to go. They will sink over time but you'll be left with some great soil in a low mound. I dug my hugles into the ground and they work just fine.  

Matt Todd wrote:I don't see how this would be a problem. If you had more slope there might be a problem with washing out, but that yard looks flat enough. I'd fill those suckers up with wood to at least two feet above ground level and cover that with the dirt you've dug out and you'll be good to go. They will sink over time but you'll be left with some great soil in a low mound. I dug my hugles into the ground and they work just fine.  

Nice! Thanks for the quick reply. How about the “frost pocket” problem? I’m in Minnesota where growing season is already short, and was hoping my Hugels could help (not hurt) that!

Matthew LeVan wrote:
Nice! Thanks for the quick reply. How about the “frost pocket” problem? I’m in Minnesota where growing season is already short, and was hoping my Hugels could help (not hurt) that!

If you overfill the trenches with wood and cover that with soil, you'd have hugle mounds rather than a depression that would "attract" frost.

Or maybe you're worried about the space between the two rows collecting frost? With open ends I don't see that being an issue.

Soooo... the piles of dirt in the picture, are just the dirt from the ditches?

My understanding is that one way to build hugels (the recommended way overall from my interpretation) is that you put the punky wood on the ground, then you dig the ditch dumping the dirt and packing it around the punky wood to get the height of the hugel. The ditch then stays empty or gets some mulch in it.

Wood floats - so burying wood in a ditch in many ecosystems is considered a bad idea (there are even some horror stories but that was were slopes were involved.) I have buried small bits (firewood sized chunks max) in unconnected spots around trees which seems to help the summer drought issues, but they do not remotely qualify as a hugel.

I hope some of the people from Wheaton Labs will have a look.

Possible fix: My gut feeling is to bucket up one section of the dirt, put your punky wood where that section of dirt was laying, shovel the dirt that's closest on top of and packed around the punky wood. Now you've got a spot to put the next wood down. Work along until you get to the last bit where you use your buckets of dirt for cover. Does that make sense?

What have you observed about frost in your yard so far?  Meaning this spring, have you been getting frost in the part of the yard where you dug?  
I'm in WI, also on sand, we have been having a slow spring which has given way too many opportunities to study frost/non-frost microclimates.   Where I am, even a little interruptions (e.g. a tall shrub or or above ground object that warms up or last years peas on a trellis will affect where it actually freezes.  But my yard is open and affected by cold air coming in on a wind.  I thought I remembered that areas with trees stayed a little warmer than completely open areas.    Long story short, you might get frost, but probably not everywhere.  Maybe plant some frost sensitive plants like beans or basil in a few weeks that will show you where it gets cold first.  

During a heavy rain will the water wash towards the ditches?  Was that the idea?

Maybe fill the ditches with wood then top with organic matter then dirt to turn them into hugelkultur?

Jay Angler wrote:Soooo... the piles of dirt in the picture, are just the dirt from the ditches?

My understanding is that one way to build hugels (the recommended way overall from my interpretation) is that you put the punky wood on the ground, then you dig the ditch dumping the dirt and packing it around the punky wood to get the height of the hugel. The ditch then stays empty or gets some mulch in it.

Wood floats - so burying wood in a ditch in many ecosystems is considered a bad idea (there are even some horror stories but that was were slopes were involved.) I have buried small bits (firewood sized chunks max) in unconnected spots around trees which seems to help the summer drought issues, but they do not remotely qualify as a hugel.

I hope some of the people from Wheaton Labs will have a look.

Possible fix: My gut feeling is to bucket up one section of the dirt, put your punky wood where that section of dirt was laying, shovel the dirt that's closest on top of and packed around the punky wood. Now you've got a spot to put the next wood down. Work along until you get to the last bit where you use your buckets of dirt for cover. Does that make sense?

1. Re: where the dirt's from. Yep, the piles you see in the pictures are the excavated dirt from digging the trenches. I have a couple cubic yards of composted manure also from a local farm that I'm planning on mixing with the excavated sandy dirt to cover the wood after I finish figuring out the design.

2. Re: how to build hugels. Yes, from Paul's Hugelkultur smackdown video on YT, he says to dig "path" trenches on either side of the mound, and use the excavated dirt from each path trench to cover the wood on the mound in the middle. In that case, I could make each of my currently excavated trenches the downslope path trenches, then dig one more trench upslope for each to complete the "two paths per mound" design. I'd likely want to fill the path trenches at least partially with wood chips to keep them as nice-to-walk pathways.

3. Re: burying wood. I definitely don't want wood floats. Not nearly as tasty as root beer floats in the summer... But perhaps my slope isn't steep enough to worry about wood floats?

4. Re: Gut feeling possible fix. This sounds good except then the bottom, longer mound would be too close to that oak tree. What about if I put the wood upslope from the current trenches, then used the currently excavated dirt and excavated dirt from another, upslope trench I could dig for each hugel? This would leave me with two, on contour Hugelkultur beds that fit Paul's "wood on ground covered with soil between two dug path trenches" design.

Cheryl Lynn wrote:What have you observed about frost in your yard so far?  Meaning this spring, have you been getting frost in the part of the yard where you dug?  
I'm in WI, also on sand, we have been having a slow spring which has given way too many opportunities to study frost/non-frost microclimates.   Where I am, even a little interruptions (e.g. a tall shrub or or above ground object that warms up or last years peas on a trellis will affect where it actually freezes.  But my yard is open and affected by cold air coming in on a wind.  I thought I remembered that areas with trees stayed a little warmer than completely open areas.    Long story short, you might get frost, but probably not everywhere.  Maybe plant some frost sensitive plants like beans or basil in a few weeks that will show you where it gets cold first.  

Good question. I kind of watched for frost where I dug, and didn't see any. It doesn't seem too prone of an area, especially because we're surrounded by trees, and the area where I dug is a more sunny and high area of the very local proximity (i.e., my yard). Good tip on planting frost sensitive plants. Thank you.

Anne Miller wrote:During a heavy rain will the water wash towards the ditches?  Was that the idea?

Maybe fill the ditches with wood then top with organic matter then dirt to turn them into hugelkultur?

Yes, the idea was to try and combine the best of both tools: Hugelkultur beds and swales. The idea is that rain would catch on my "Hugelswales". Filling the ditches with wood then topping with dirt was the original plan, but I'm wary now after watching the Paul's Hugelkultur smackdown video on YT.

Matthew LeVan wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:During a heavy rain will the water wash towards the ditches?  Was that the idea?

Maybe fill the ditches with wood then top with organic matter then dirt to turn them into hugelkultur?

Yes, the idea was to try and combine the best of both tools: Hugelkultur beds and swales. The idea is that rain would catch on my "Hugelswales". Filling the ditches with wood then topping with dirt was the original plan, but I'm wary now after watching the Paul's Hugelkultur smackdown video on YT.

Instead maybe fill the ditches with gravel and top with soil.

Since I have not watch that video, what do you feel Paul would recommend?

Anne Miller wrote:Since I have not watch that video, what do you feel Paul would recommend?

I think Paul would suggest that the trenches stay there, that woody bits be added to the "clear" side of the trench, then the dirt on the other side of the trench be moved so that it's on top of the woody bits.

It's likely your benefits would be as follows: your hugel berms end up taller and with more surface area to grow things, and the neighbours won't complain to the HOA when you have tall hills in your yard.

To save yourself some time the next time you do this, you may want to lay down woody bits on the ground where you want your hugel berms to be, then dig trenches next to them. All you would need to do in this scenario is pile the earth you're digging onto the woody bits, and your first layer/s of hugel are complete.

If you're concerned about the steep edges of the trenches next to your hugel berms, then remove more soil from the upper corner opposite the hugel, sloping it down into the trench instead of having to "hop down" into it.

Matthew LeVan wrote:
3. Re: burying wood. I definitely don't want wood floats. Not nearly as tasty as root beer floats in the summer... But perhaps my slope isn't steep enough to worry about wood floats?

I don't have personal experience with real hugelbeds, but I have worked a lot with different types of soil and drainage conditions. I would only be worried about the wood floating up if the soil drained so poorly that there was a real risk that the trench actually could fill with water, which seems very unlikely if it is as sandy as it looks. Unless there is some kind of less permeable layer right below? Clay, iron concretions (hardpan?) or more or less permanent ground water?
Even if the trench could fill with water, the wood would have to be quite dry, and light to begin with, in order to actually lift the soil that you heap onto it. Even semi-saturated wood can barely float, let alone lift significant weight. I'm not doubting it can and has happened, but it has got to take some very specific circumstances - dry, light wood, light soil on top, trenches that fill almost completely and quite fast.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:

Anne Miller wrote:Since I have not watch that video, what do you feel Paul would recommend?

I think Paul would suggest that the trenches stay there, that woody bits be added to the "clear" side of the trench, then the dirt on the other side of the trench be moved so that it's on top of the woody bits.

It's likely your benefits would be as follows: your hugel berms end up taller and with more surface area to grow things, and the neighbours won't complain to the HOA when you have tall hills in your yard.

To save yourself some time the next time you do this, you may want to lay down woody bits on the ground where you want your hugel berms to be, then dig trenches next to them. All you would need to do in this scenario is pile the earth you're digging onto the woody bits, and your first layer/s of hugel are complete.

If you're concerned about the steep edges of the trenches next to your hugel berms, then remove more soil from the upper corner opposite the hugel, sloping it down into the trench instead of having to "hop down" into it.

I think that's what Paul would say too, so I went ahead and started building. How's it look? How tall should I go?

I'm planning to keep building the wood base, then cover it in mixed composted manure and my sandy soil... then finally cover it all in a healthy layer of wood chips. Question though: do I broadcast seeds on top of the wood chips?

Oh, and thankfully... no HOA!

Matthew LeVan wrote:
I'm planning to keep building the wood base, then cover it in mixed composted manure and my sandy soil... then finally cover it all in a healthy layer of wood chips. Question though: do I broadcast seeds on top of the wood chips?

Oh, and thankfully... no HOA!

Hi Again! I think your beds are looking wonderful. I too, I am definitely not an expert and have just started my own beds. The moment I shoveled my last load of dirt onto my first hugelkultur bed, I broadcasted seeds. I think that would likely be one of the most important things you do, build the root system immediately. I threw down, what I now realize is a living mulch (radish, clovers, buckwheat and rye). I let that establish for about 6 weeks before chopping and dropping. Then I planted lots of squash and beans. I thought this would be best for a first year bed, especially being that it will struggle with nitrogen initially.
There’s my two cents…hopefully somebody with more experience has a dime for you 😁. Happy digging!

This article is v3ery informative:

If you build your hugelkultur raised garden beds tall enough, you won't have to irrigate. At all (after the second year). No hoses. No drip system. Anything shorter won't require as much irrigation - so there is still some benefit. Imagine going on vacation in the summer without having to hire somebody to kill water your garden! As a further bonus, the flavor of everything you grow will be far better!

https://richsoil.com/hugelkultur/

You also might think about doing a PEP BB or a least get some ideas:

https://permies.com/wiki/98574/Build-Hugelkultur-PEP-BB-gardening

Anne Miller wrote:This article is v3ery informative:

If you build your hugelkultur raised garden beds tall enough, you won't have to irrigate. At all (after the second year). No hoses. No drip system. Anything shorter won't require as much irrigation - so there is still some benefit. Imagine going on vacation in the summer without having to hire somebody to kill water your garden! As a further bonus, the flavor of everything you grow will be far better!

https://richsoil.com/hugelkultur/

You also might think about doing a PEP BB or a least get some ideas:

https://permies.com/wiki/98574/Build-Hugelkultur-PEP-BB-gardening

Great idea thanks for the suggestion.

Here’s an update: piled more wood, including branches and twigs from a recently chopped down basswood tree. Next step: rent some heavy equipment to mix lots of compost and sandy soil and put it all on top, broadcast a seed mix, then cover paths and mounds with wood chip mulch.

Here’s which seeds I already have. Which ratios should I use for my mix, what should I mix with for a medium, and anything I should avoid or add?

• New Zealand White Clover
• Medium Red Clover
• EXCEED Alfalfa/True Clover Inoculant
• Borage
• Summer Pastels Yarrow
• Alpha Calendula
• Ruby Red Orach
• Field Pea
• Buckwheat (Common)
• Trailing Nasturtium Mix
• Vroma Bean
• Anise Hyssop
• Lovage
• Honey Bear Acorn Squash
• Matt’s Wild Cherry Tomato
• Silverado Swiss Chard
• Orazio Fennel
• Waldo PMR Butternut Squash
• Bloomsdale Spinach
• Daikon Japanese Minowase Radish
• Detroit Dark Red Beets
• Easter Egg Heirloom Radish
• Lacinato Dinosaur Kale
• Lincoln Shelling Heirloom Pea
• Super Red Romaine Lettuce
• White Egg Heirloom Turnip
• Zinnia California Giant Mix​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​