quality and palatability of perennial vegetables...

John Suavecito wrote: The leaves of horseradish are good-tasting and bountiful.

John S
PDX OR

I've only ever grown horseradish for the roots, which were so strong  they had to be handled with rubber gloves!
But I quit as it tends to take over gardens here (Lol. In dismay, my aunt would dig it up every year, only to see it multiply the next.)
Also, I grew it as an "architectural" plant where it could be contained but flea beetles love it, too, and rendered it "skeletal" instead. So another use for horseradish may be as a trap crop?!

Jay Angler wrote:Some people tolerate "bitter" much more than others, but it is also an acquired taste to some degree ....

Apparently, as people age, we develop a taste for bitter flavors which are associated with liver cleansing and other health benefits.

Horseradish root is very,very spicy. The leaves are large and surprisingly mild flavored.

John s
Pdx or

It is too cold here for the scarlet runner bean to be a perrenial outside but they seem to winter over well in the greenhouse. I didn't know until this year that the scarlet runner bean produces an edible tuber too.

Robert Ray wrote:It is too cold here for the scarlet runner bean to be a perrenial outside but they seem to winter over well in the greenhouse. I didn't know until this year that the scarlet runner bean produces an edible tuber too.

I only planted them as an annual and didn't know that they grew a tuber. In zone 4b, I'd have to lift them and ... try to have them survive the winter. I'm just crazy enough to try: "You no try, you no get".
How good does the root taste?

I don't think anyone mentioned burdock, which is a biennial but grows and comes back entirely on it's own in many places, in fact it can be very aggressive sometimes. And very delicious. Also grape leaves to wrap other foods in and pickle. I love grape leaves. I've only made them fresh from the garden once, but they were great, very coppery and delicious. I also wanted to mention that miner's lettuce will grow enormous if fed, ie fertilizer of some kind. We accidentally discovered this when we fed our potted lime tree, which had miner's lettuce growing on it's feet, and they grew new leaves the size of dinner plates. I think many of the wild edibles would respond the same way.

So much great information I don’t know where to start.  I’d like to add the following:    I always use a liberal sprinkle of ginger powder and/or fresh ginger to sunchokes (Jerusalem artichokes) to prevent the gas.  The tips about using vinegar are fantastic, will try that.  I only grow a small patch, and dollar wise it produces more value than any other crop here.  I compost truckloads of leaves in that spot, so the soil is soft land weeds/grass don’t grow due to the heavy mulch, but the sunchokes love it.  Huge crops, sometimes two gallons on one plant.  Around here they sell for over $8. Per pound.  I rinse off the chokes by putting into a container which has drain holes all over and spraying with the water hose, dumping out and repeating.  Then I let them dry one day and store in plastic bags in the refrigerator.  They keep for many months like that without dehydrating, but if not dry enough will mold.  My favorite recipe is to sauté carrots in coconut oil and after five minutes, add the chopped chokes, sprinkle with the ginger, a little thyme and sea salt and cook until tender,  Delicious.  When I take a huge pot of this to a covered dish it gets consumed immediately.  

My most favorite garden plant is a naturalized plant, Lamb’s Quarters, which is ranked as a super food due to the nutrient density.  Second favorite is chickweed, because we like the taste and it is available all winter, even in years when everything outside or in the sunroom is winter killed due to cold extremes.  Sometimes I make the chickweed as pesto, or just chop finely with onions and throw in a few sunflower seed or pine nuts and douse with Italian vinaigrette dressing.   Easy too, as I don’t actually grow it, just harvest, and little work to make the pesto.   Then, of course, the peppers, tomatoes,  cucumbers, fresh salad greens and other things to give us more variety.  I should not leave out the shiitake, they are awesome.  Sometimes after a heavy two day rain in winter, I bring a couple into the sunroom to force them, by putting over a tray of water and putting wooden boards across to hold them out of the water.  If it is warm enough in there, they will flush.  Often it is too cold.  

I agree with the idea that it isn’t worth growing the things you don’t enjoy eating.  I’ve had things I grew that I didn’t care for so we didn’t eat it and it was just wasted space and energy.   Best to focus on what we like.  

As we are in zone 10b, we have a lot of perennials that others can’t grow as perennials. Celery for example is a perennial here. I also grow two types of perennial spinach, lots of tree collards, sweet potatoes (we don’t dig out the potatoes but eat the leaves in the spot where they come back each year, we have another spot where we harvest the roots). Lots of herbs are also perennials like rosemary, mint, etc. our prickly pear produces both fruits and paddles for food. I also grow wild garlic, wild leeks, wild onions, walking onions, rhubarb, asparagus as perennials, plus lots of fruits and berries. Most brassicas are able to grow year round, so they get enormous. A lot of flowers are also perennials and I think those are important to remember as well.
I usually start them in my raised bed garden, and then transplant to the forest garden, when they have a good size.

Hazelnuts?  I put four plants in a few years ago and am waiting for them to produce.  Yesterday, I planted two heartnuts.  Both of these were chosen because of their nutritional value and ultimate size.  I don't want 100' trees, and the heartnuts should only get to 30' or so.  The hazelnuts should get to be only 15-20'.  The nuts store really well without special preserving techniques, are not difficult to shell, and are versatile. Once they start producing, I can just snack on them or make homemade nutella or pesto...Sky's the limit and yum!

I bought an "improved" lambs quarters (magenta spreen) that I love tender tips in mixed salad bigger leaves cooked as greens. Especially like them thrown in with fried taters and onions. Easy to grow, has hot pink inflorescence instead of white, so decorative in the yard and on the plate. Keep pinching tips it will get bushy. I had one look like a 70s style Xmas tree . 4' tall and looking like someone spritzed it with hot pink paint. Leaves are bigger than wild lambs quarters so faster picking and let a few go to seed they'll be back. I also am very fond of purslane salad.there are also improved varieties. Bigger more tender leaves, more upright like a jade plant. So yummy! Other favorites are the edible flowers viola, violets, bee balm...beautiful and nutritious on those salads.

I'm in the high mountains of North Carolina, and I find that my wild arugula plant comes back big and spreading every year.  Zone 6 a/b.  I got the seeds through our local library, but they were donated to the seed library from High Mowing Seeds.  The leaves are thinner and you need to harvest a lot more of them to make the same quantity of usual garden arugula.  But you don' t need to replant it or be sure it reseeds every year.  I agree that souchan is a great green.  It grows wild here in the mountains, but it also loves my raised beds.  I am trying to grow Good King Henry this year for the first time, but from reading other posts, I'm not sure how much I'll like it.  Egyptian walking onions are great and reseed themselves.  Very easy.  Lovage is more of an herb than a vegetable entree, but it also comes back every year and I like the strong celery taste.  My lawn is unsprayed and not mowed much so I have a natural supply of dandelion, and plantains.  Always lovely.  Good luck with whatever you try!  

Great thread. It's given me a few ideas for things I want to try (especially Erythronium for my shadier spots).

The one big thing I haven't seen mentioned here is Fuki. I think I'm going to wait one more year before harvesting mine, so I can't comment on taste, yet, but it's an extremely cool looking plant.

It likes wet and shade, so since I'm in Utah, I have it in a low spot where the water pools, and where there's enough shade. People warn about it being invasive, but I doubt it will survive outside of the little microclimate I planted it in, so that shouldn't be a worry.

One mild-flavored perennial that doesn't require a bunch of special preparation is Erba Stella (aka minutina, buckhorn plantain, etc. Latin name is Plantago coronopus.)   I seldom see it mentioned but it is mild enough to be included in high-end salad mixes, and has a crunchy, texture and slightly salty flavor that makes it easy to use and like. You just cut it and throw it into salad, soup, etc. It is hardy to down to zone 5. https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p261/Erba_Stella%2C_Minutina.html

Perennial/biennial/annual aren't hard and fast categories. Several of our common vegetables are perennials in their ancient homeland, or in certain climates. Tomatoes and peppers are often perennial in fairly frost-free climates. Runner beans and jicama both make tubers that overwinter in mild climates. As you get into colder winters, the number of possibilities decreases, but one promising place to look is at plants that are normally biennial. These are plants that overwinter, then flower and die, usually around midsummer. Cabbage kale, onions, beets and carrots are all biennial vegetables. They already have the hardiness to overwinter in the normal course of being biennial. So from overwintering once to doing it several times is not such a big step. Often they have ancestors that were perennial, like Sea Beet, the ancestor of beets and chards.

If perennialism is an important trait to you, it's well worth experimenting, especially with crops that are traditional in small homestead or cottage situations. In situations where the field or garden is all plowed every spring and replanted, then weeded or cultivated, there is selection pressure for fast emergence of seeds, fast maturity, and annual or biennial habit. This is the kind of evolutionary pressure that turns a perennial like Sea Beet into a biennial like table beets. In more relaxed garden situations, where trees, shrubs, flowers and crops are jumbled, the traits for perennial survival may survive. If you want to find crops that produce palatable food in usable quantities, a good place to start looking is among domesticated garden plants that have not been as intensively cropped.

Kale is an example. The varieties that have been developed for farms, (like Vates, developed by the Virginia agricultural experiment station,) rarely perennialize, even in maritime climates. On the other hand, Cottager's Kale  is an ancient variety from England that still throws a proportion of perennial plants. https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p514/Cottager%27s_Kale.html  Western Front is a modern kale bred specifically for homesteaders that also has some seedlings that choose to go perennial. https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p492/Western_Front_Red_Kale.html

My climate (zone 7) is mild enough to overwinter collards,  which are an even richer field for experiment, since there were so many that were grown only by one or two families for their own use. Several of these have been rescued by the Heirloom Collards Project, https://heirloomcollards.org/ as well as  Southern Exposure Seeds, and The Seed Savers Exchange. Old Timey Blue Collards https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p337/Old-Timey_Blue_Collards.html  are perennial for me, and I've seen other (unnamed) varieties around old homesteads.

Chard, arugula, chicory, and celery all have varieties that are closer to the wild and produce a high proportion of perennial plants. Older varieties of leeks do sometimes as well.
https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p9/Perpetual_Spinach_%28Leafbeet%29_Chard.html
https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p295/Perennial_Arugula%2C_Rucola_selvatica%2C_Wild_Rocket_%22Sylvetta.html
https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p472/Chicory_%22Trieste_Sweet%22.html
https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p10/Leaf_Celery.html

There are obvious reasons why people are interested in perennials--it's great to have a crop each year without replanting. Further, perennials often produce in early spring when they are particularly welcome.  Rhubarb, artichokes, and asparagus all provide the quality, flavor, and quantity to justify their space.  But it's easy to assume a perennial will be better when that may not be the case. I don't get quality collard leaves in the spring and summer for example. The plant is too busy flowering and making seed, and it sucks energy from the leaves to fuel seed production. If I want lots of top-quality leaves, I plant new every year and harvest the first-year vegetative growth. Similarly, market gardeners usually replant salad perennials like sorrel, chicory, erba stella, and miner's lettuce rather continuing to crop and cut the same plants. The younger leaves are milder, juicier, and produced in greater quantity. If it's quality leaves you're after, a young plant is what will produce it quickly and well.

Sterile hybrids like Purple Tree Collards avoid this problem, but there are not many such plants, and they are less hardy than their seed-bearing relatives. Like everything, it's a trade-off. And like everything, there is work that could be done to select for less reproduction and more vegetative growth. In my opinion, and with my situation, the amount of work to prepare many perennials, and the smaller quantities they produce over a shorter season than annuals, makes them an adjunct rather than a staple in my garden. If I were in a different climate, or I preferred scrubbing small roots to taking care of seedlings, the balance would be different.

Self-sowing annuals are a good compromise in many gardens. Mustards, turnip greens, cilantro, and miner's lettuce are all self-sowers in my garden. However, as some people in this thread have noted, mulch or established plants or compaction all can prevent self-sowers from germinating. The fact is that most of our food plants are species that thrive in disturbed soil.
Even the wild miner's lettuce on my land moves around, depending on where it can find bare or disturbed soil that hasn't been taken over by grasses. After two years it usually disappears, having been crowded out by stronger more competitive plants. Human intervention has always been a necessary condition for abundance of human food--from the intentional burning done by California native peoples, to the intentional planting of native fruit trees in the jungle, to the digging and spreading of root and tuber crops in various cultures, to the creation of a plowed seedbed. Each gardener needs to decide the type of interventions that suit their situation, preferences, physical capabilities, resources, and climate.

I know I am late to this discussion, but wanted to share my experience.
Some perennial vegetables we've tried and kept are:

-Bronze fennel: Not a substantial "vegetable", but adds a nice anise flavor to stock. I use it instead of star anise. Self-seeds all over the garden, but never where you want it to. I sometimes transplant the volunteers.
-Stridolo/sculpit: didn't grow well for us, but still alive; very pleasant flavor reminiscent of pea shoots. If it dies, likely won't try again.
-Ramps: need no introduction. I prefer to grow rather than forage in this particular case.
-Asparagus: we managed to put it in a wrong spot (garden proper) and have successfully transplanted relatively mature crowns. Would not recommend that route! Tastes great, give it a try even if you don't like the one from the grocery store.
-French sorrel: love it, make a soup with it based on Greek avgolemono, use more sparingly in salads. Survived transplanting.
-Horseradish: easy to grow, also survived a transplant for us, would probably do even better if not grown in clay.
-Dwarf sunchoke: doesn't seem to be as invasive as described, maybe because we have a dwarf variety; also this dwarf variety doesn't lodge over which is a problem for us with corn and sunflowers; obtained from cultivariable; some GI distress so can't eat a lot at one time; my favorite recipe is oven roasted caramelized chips with olive oil. I did lactoferment them once, took forever, started off super slimy, eventually tasted pretty good, but still caused GI distress.
-perennial kale from Experimental Farm Network: doing pretty well. Tastes like regular kale. Would not try to direct seed as recommended, did much better as transplants.
-rhubarb: love it, but almost too pretty to eat (I let it bloom and make seed instead of letting all the energy go to stalks). I like it without any sugar as a refreshing snack.
-Korean perennial celery and lovage: both taste very similar to me, I was super pleasantly surprised by both having never tasted either. I never have to buy celery again - or try to grow it! Must protect from bunnies. Highly recommend either or both.
-groundnut: looks alive, yet to try it. If it dies, won't try again. Probably best foraged.
-Egyptian walking onions: really only use the tops like a scallion. Ours get attacked by some sort of black (onion?) aphids. Really cool looking plant otherwise.
-potato onions: These guys are awesome! Keep really well, regular onion sets NEVER did well for us, but potato onions are going strong. Also, I never tend to use a whole huge onion anyway, so these little onions are just the right size. I found a red variety and a some yellow ones. Also tried shallots, but again the potato onions are the real winners.
-udo: growing well, use the shoots in a stir fry, pleasant tasting, but not a substantial vegetable by any means.
-creasy greens: technically a biennial but we treat them as naturalizers, taste great "mess o'greens" - style.
-Caucasian spinach: died on us 3 times, but we're determined only because it SOUNDS so perfect. Might be a total disappointment.
-sea kale: too young to eat so far, but very pretty; sadly, not doing super great in our clay soil. If it dies, won't repurchase.
-Denver Perennial Ground Cherry from EFN: not really a veggie, has yet to fruit, but seems to come back a little earlier each year, so not giving up on it. Main reason is I try to limit the number of transplants and primarily reserve our grow light for tomatoes and peppers. I like the taste of regular ground cherries, but refuse to start even more things indoors.
-hostas: pleasant asparagus-like shoots, but I generally just leave them to grow. Could not tell a difference in taste between varieties.
Sochan: awesome green, has a very specific flavor, cook it as you would greens. Also a pretty flower.
This list does not include perennial herbs, saffron, berry bushes, fruit and nut trees, etc..
We also grow some obscure things that are technically edible, but don't seem worthwhile to eat such as quamash, trout lily, prickly pear cactus.

Some that we won't be trying again:

-Black salsify: grew relatively well, invasive/hard to remove, did NOT taste good - and I generally like all veggies. The greens were tasteless and the root was hard to peel, secreted sticky goo, and was nothing to write home about. Our clay soil might have made things worse as roots were on the small side.
-Turkish rocket: also grew well, invasive/hard to remove, did NOT taste good - tried young leaves and shoots. Pollinators loved it! I had high hopes for this one.
Chinese artichoke: died on us, very little food.
Elephant garlic: died an early death twice. Will stick to regular garlic.
Cardoon: never sprouted. I read more about it and decided against trying again.
Good King Henry: died for some reason, tried a couple of times, was slow to get going.
Daylily: easy to grow, made my throat itch when tried raw, can probably try it cooked. Ours are by the road which is the main reason for not eating them. Keeping them as ornamentals only.
Salad burnet: what a bummer, it was super pretty, easy to grow, stayed green through the winter, but really bitter - and not in a good way.
Erba stella: ours just didn't taste great. We didn't pamper it - which is the point of perennial veggies - so maybe that made it yucky.
There were probably other failures I blocked out

When I started gardening again as an adult, I initially really got into the idea of perennial vegetables. I ended up planting some silly things such as Solomon's seal and wood nettles (hard to grow a substantial amount in the garden, but we have a ton of them growing on our property as it turns out). I highly recommend foraging these types of perennial edibles rather than trying to grow them.

Over time, I came back to appreciate ANNUAL veggies, particularly when saving seeds.

If I could start over, I would definitely NOT put any perennial veggies in the actual garden, even if I thought "I have plenty of space". The perennial veggies seem to do better on the north side of the house, which is also semi-shaded. Seems like they still get enough sun. The ones my family enjoyed most ended up being "mainstream".

One important advantage to a lot of perennial vegetables is food production in the hungry gap period, which is the main reason I would replant a lot of these if lost.

Here's my list:

- Young plantain and sea plantain almost any time, the tartness is good, but plantain gets tough and is a somewhat bitter in a way sea plantain isn't
- I've got some perennial kale that were the survivors of hardship trials in my yarden and they're delicious at different times (some softer leaved ones are pretty sweet in spring, and the thicker leaved ones are best after a couple frosts and through the winter / the soft leaved kale is the favorite plant of insects in the spring and I have learned to appreciate how it preserves the other plants nearby, and I'll hammer the critters with some diatomaceous on occasion, and they'll eat it to the stem, but then it regrows in time for late summy
- I enjoy sunflower seeds (I recognize they're not exactly perennial -except when they are- but they self sow just about anywhere, and they're not exactly a vegetable, unless you sprout 'em), but it's a lot of work to really get a bunch in your gullet
- Though I'm not pulling a lot of calories, I like mallow "cheese wheels" or "peas" or whatever your regional idiom is for the immature seed pods
- miner's lettuce is tasty and easy
- this is a new one for me this year, but grape tendrils are the tastiest little tart treats around

There are a few others I eat, and I experiment a lot, but most are a pain in the ass and are only worth it if you get a kick out of the process in itself.

Chance Lunceford wrote:Here's my list:

- Young plantain and sea plantain almost any time, the tartness is good, but plantain gets tough and is a somewhat bitter in a way sea plantain isn't
- I've got some perennial kale that were the survivors of hardship trials in my yarden and they're delicious at different times (some softer leaved ones are pretty sweet in spring, and the thicker leaved ones are best after a couple frosts and through the winter / the soft leaved kale is the favorite plant of insects in the spring and I have learned to appreciate how it preserves the other plants nearby, and I'll hammer the critters with some diatomaceous on occasion, and they'll eat it to the stem, but then it regrows in time for late summy
- I enjoy sunflower seeds (I recognize they're not exactly perennial -except when they are- but they self sow just about anywhere, and they're not exactly a vegetable, unless you sprout 'em), but it's a lot of work to really get a bunch in your gullet
- Though I'm not pulling a lot of calories, I like mallow "cheese wheels" or "peas" or whatever your regional idiom is for the immature seed pods
- miner's lettuce is tasty and easy
- this is a new one for me this year, but grape tendrils are the tastiest little tart treats around

There are a few others I eat, and I experiment a lot, but most are a pain in the ass and are only worth it if you get a kick out of the process in itself.

I also chuck a lot of experimental seeds into some unmanaged areas near my house and there are some interesting things growing in those areas that I try from time to time.

Most of the fruit everyone grows like strawberries, blueberries, apples etc. still fulfill the veggies requirements of vitamins, roughage, etc. that veggies do, so  as far as I'm concerned, they might as well be veggies, especially in a tight food situation. They can be eaten raw, so that's top for ease of preparation!
Otherwise, most have already be mentioned: Asparagus, sunchokes rhubarb.
I need to get some walking onions but my hubby found some ramps (Allium Tricoccum) and I'm trying to grow a patch but they aren't multiplying, so I'm doing something wrong. Garlic, although they will do better if lifted, sorted and replanted right away. (does that count as perennial? I think so as you do not need to buy new seeds each year.
I get some purslane, which, if well swollen is really good, but you need to get a lot for a meal but a few stems & leaves are easy enough to toss in a salad.
My new veggie is more of an herb and is called lovage. It tastes very much like celery but some people say stronger (so you put less in) and will come back year after year in my zone (4b). They are thinner than celery, so you can't slather them with cream cheese, but a couple of stalks will add a lot to any soup or stew, as well as the leaves.

I was so happy to 'inherit' an allotment plot with already many perennials on it (the two renters before me did permaculture too).
Most of those perennials are fruit shrubs (blackberries, red, white and black currants, jostaberries, gooseberries, wineberries, gojiberries), and two apple trees. Probably those are not 'vegetables' ...

The perennial vegetables there, and my opinion:
Salsify / scorzonera. Easy plant, but the root is hard to find and difficult to peel. Not really worth the effort.
Cardoon. Easy plant, beautiful flower. Yield (leaf stem, preferably bleached) is very small compared to the large plant. Tastes very bitter.
Different species of perennial and self-seeding Alliums. Some are easy, others a little more fussy. I love the tastes of all of them.
Good King Henry. Everybody talks about it and wants to have it in their garden. I don't know why. The leaves, supposedly 'like spinach' are tough and not very tasty. It wants to take over more garden space (with the roots and the seeds) than I want to give it.
Rhubarb. I love it! But (like with the berries/currants) sugar is needed to make it taste good.
Asparagus. I love them most. But it takes a few years before you can harvest the first one.

And then there are the herbs (rosemary, chives, oregano, lovage, savory, sage and more). I love them all.
I want to add: I keep all of the perennials, because there's plenty of garden space and most of them attract insects, birds and other wildlife.

In my other post I mentioned all perennials on the allotment.
One I didn't mention: Jerusalem artichoke (or Sunchoke). At the allotments these are only allowed in a container, so they can not spread. That's why I don't have them there. They grow in my back yard. Easy plant (but to keep them in their own space takes some effort). They grow much more roots than I can eat. I like to have one of them mixed with other vegetables, sautéed. Lacto-fermented they are nice too.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:...
I need to get some walking onions but my hubby found some ramps (Allium Tricoccum) and I'm trying to grow a patch but they aren't multiplying, so I'm doing something wrong. Garlic, although they will do better if lifted, sorted and replanted right away. (does that count as perennial? I think so as you do not need to buy new seeds each year..

I think our version of ramps/ ramsons is Allium ursinum. It might not be identical to Allium tricoccum.
I have some of it in my front garden. It is multiplying, but very little. Like: one plant more every year. This year I dared harvest a few leaves only.

Now I read some more posts I see some vegetables mentioned I have too. But I consider them self-seeding annuals, not perennials. F.e. purslane and miner's lettuce.