quality and palatability of perennial vegetables...

It’s already been said, but I want to repeat the advice about eating a gas producing food frequently, in small amounts. This way you develop a population in your gut that can handle the inulin.

echo minarosa wrote: ...the information sources for perennial vegetables run similar to those surrounding foraged edibles. There seems to be little discussing things which might limit their enjoyment like taste, extreme growing difficulties, true spatial requirements, ease of use, etc.

After 7 degree blizzard conditions Saturday, we are 57 degrees warmer two days later. Checked out the damage to my garden yesterday and found...barely none. Effective immediately I'm no longer telling everyone I'm "fooling" Mother Nature by growing and harvesting lush greens and veges out of season. I believe she and I are working together in tandem all year round. Veges are literally my healthy body. Eat well, stay well. Eat poorly, feel poorly pretty darn quickly.  

I believe our future will be coaxing annual, biennial and perennial fruit and vege plants to grow bountiful crops in very adverse conditions for years and years, rather than just being one or a few season wonders.

This is a wonderful, informative thread.  I've never even heard of sochan and look forward to trying it.  Here's my contribution: I've long been surprised not to see anything here or elsewhere about eating young daylily FANS/LEAVES - only the buds, flowers and roots.  In a wooded area of my property about a million daylies pop up in spring.    When they're young shoots - 5-7 in. tall - they break off easily and form a sizable bunch pretty fast.  I wash them, leaving the fans intact, dry them well and sauté them in a little oil, salt and pepper.  I think they taste great - earthy, vegetal, a hint of sweetness.  I've never had a bad reaction of any kind.  Highly recommended.

I can confirm the info about young hops shoots: they are indeed very tasty boiled, although they are way thinner than asparagus. The texture is soft, and I remember the taste being something like... in-between asparagus and nettles, if that makes any sense. One friend I fed it to thought the taste was superior to asparagus.

One thing, however: hops (don't know what parts) contain a substance that is converted by our gut bacteria to a type of phytoestrogen. I have no idea if there is any real risk associated with consuming this, but I seem to remember reading that this substance is at least partially responsible for the proverbial "beer belly" as well as reductions in male libido. However true this might be, as hops shoots are a highly seasonal food, I don't think you're likely to get enough of it to have any noticeable effect.

Perennials...

Garlic is actually a biennial, i.e., the full story takes 2 years.  "The full story"  means, you harvest some of the little tiny "bulbils" that garlic puts out on its bloom stem around June, save them until October (or perhaps, March of the following year), plant them 1/2" deep in some bed, ignore them except perhaps for watering through the next summer while their round root grows, then, in July a whole year later, harvest the finished garlic bulbs.

I seldom bother doing this myself; mainly it uses a whole bed for a whole year without any productive, or even very visible, crop. What it saves is, you don't have to keep aside 20% of your main crop when it comes, in order to have garlic cloves to plant the following fall.

If all this is confusing, there's a very good book, A Garlic Testament, by Stanley Crawford in New Mexico, who figured out some of the 2-year plan, and raised garlic as a cash crop for a number of years. Said he had little baby garlics springing up all over the place! Seemed like he made good money by it.

I have enjoyed this post.  I have also been trying to add perennials to my garden.  Last year I tried longevity spinach, Okinawa spinach, and purple tree kale.  I like all three.  The tree kale is the only one I enjoy raw. The others were a little bitter for me, but I don't like bitter foods at all.  I do enjoy the other Two cooked.  All have been super easy to grow for me I live in N. California zone 9 b.  The Okinawa spinach is a pretty plant, and would be a good house plan, or in the front yard. I grew both the Okinawa spinach and longevity spinach under apricot trees.  The Okinawa spinach seems to need more water.  Both spinach are sensitive to frost. I covered them and both survived. ( We don't get much frost, a couple times a year). They all are super easy to start with a cutting.  
Thanks for starting this post. Good luck, happy growing.

I'd like to put a word in for Erythronium.
From Alan Carter's 'blog

If you were designing a new crop for forest gardening, you might decide you wanted a starchy bulb rather than yet another leaf or fruit producer. Ideally it would be ready early in the season, before all the other roots. It would be nice if the bulbs tasted good, stored well, were a decent size and weren’t fiddly to prepare. Needless to say, it would have to grow in shade. It would also be handy if it was simple to propagate, maybe by dividing and self seeding modestly. While we’re at it, why not give it beautiful early spring flowers too?

I tried mine for the first time this winter and I thought they were rather good! they taste like very mild onion crossed with potato. Since it was my first taste, I didn't have a big portion and just tried them gently fried by themselves, but they passed the "husband test" and we will definitely have them again.



I've divided some of my bulb clumps to try and bulk them up a bit, and planted some in my borrowed permaculture garden too. One of the downsides is that they are not very prolific, but what else so nice grows in deep shade?

Nancy Reading wrote:I'd like to put a word in for Erythronium. ...
I've divided some of my bulb clumps to try and bulk them up a bit, and planted some in my borrowed permaculture garden too. One of the downsides is that they are not very prolific, but what else so nice grows in deep shade?

What else grows so nice in deep shade - I haven't eaten them myself as I have never found a very big patch, but spring beauty aka fairy spuds (Claytonia) come to mind. If trout lily will grow for you, spring beauty should do well in the same site.

Marisa Lee wrote: spring beauty aka fairy spuds (Claytonia) come to mind. If trout lily will grow for you, spring beauty should do well in the same site.

I looked up Claytonia virginica and it does look interesting thank you! I may see if I can find some seed or plants in the UK. I have Claytonia sibirica already which seems very happy and hopefully will seed around, but I don't think that forms tubers.

All sorts of perennial veg are putting on spring growth for me at the moment. I've been trying Scorzonera (Scorzonera hispanica/black salsify?) leaves for the first time and they are surprisingly good! Raw they are innocuous and the smaller ones are tender enough for a salad, although the larger ones do tend to get a bit chewy they are not too bad. Cooked they taste really nice! I just steamed them on top of rice (with some kale as the main veg just in case) and the taste was sweet, with maybe a hint of artichoke. It was nice to have a flavour that was distinct and there was no hint of bitterness to me at all. Of course just harvesting the leaves means the roots get to regrow.
I also tried some Babbington leek for pretty much the first time. I used it in a bolognese type sauce instead of onions. The thing that caught me out was that the flavour is rather more garlicky than I was expecting, so I would probably use half the amount next time. I just cut off the green growing part above the ground, so again I expect them to regrow. I have plenty now from bulbils I have strewn around, most are less than 1/3 inch diameter, but probably only half a dozen would flavour a meal for 6 people.

Nancy Reading wrote:I also tried some Babbington leek for pretty much the first time. I used it in a bolognese type sauce instead of onions. The thing that caught me out was that the flavour is rather more garlicky than I was expecting, so I would probably use half the amount next time. I just cut off the green growing part above the ground, so again I expect them to regrow. I have plenty now from bulbils I have strewn around, most are less than 1/3 inch diameter, but probably only half a dozen would flavour a meal for 6 people.

That sounds awesome - like walking onions but more leek-like! Unfortunately, a quick search suggests it may not be available in Canada.  I may have to suggest them to my favorite seed company!

I have a few to add-- a few from the forest and some from the meadows too.

- Dame's Rocket (Hesperis matronalis), a plant of sunny areas as well as light forest. In spring, these plants blossom, turning the landscape purple and white. A member of the mustard family, and one who is quick-growing and mild-tasting, they make a perfect spring vegetable now, as they are beginning to send up flower shoots. In degraded soil, they seem to live short lives-- as biennials?-- and are not so good to eat, being smaller and tougher, but the older ones growing in more fertile soil, and in some places in the forest, grow into sizeable clumps. The largest grow by the blueberry bushes. We eat these by pulling off a some off of one of these clumps and adding it to recipes as a cooked green-- not very good raw. Later on they grow into flower clusters, also very tender, which my family much appreciates. Dame's rocket is also, along with garlic mustard, one of the first greens to emerge.

- Ramp leaves are delicious throughout the spring, when they are available. This year I hope to experiment with more ways to preserve them, like fermentation; we have by freezing, which keeps them preserved but is not ideal. In the forest, they grow into very large patches if they are allowed to.

-Fiddleheads from the ostrich fern are a delicacy every spring. We collect more than we can eat, and quite sustainably, from the floodplain forest a very short walk down the hill. Sadly, almost all such ecosystems have been destroyed or neglected in the region for the sake of money.

- Basswood/linden leaves are very good when they are young. They are even fresh vegetables in winter: the large buds.

- Garlic mustard is an abundant biennial, but wild and self-seeding. Fresh, they are bitter and strong tasting, and very good as a spice. Ramps, garlic mustard, and ground-ivy with pounded sunflower seeds and salt, I have found good as pesto. You may not want to plant them where they are not already growing. The greens lose all of their bitterness fermented-- that way I can enjoy them as a vegetable. I also like the roots, although they have a different flavor, spicier and less bitter.

- If I may add another biennial, parsnips need nothing from us save sunlight, fertile soil, a shovel, and hungry mouths.

- Wood nettle (Laportea) is far more abundant here than stinging nettle, growing along streams and other wet places in forests. They come out later than stinging nettle, and have larger leaves. They are one of my favorite vegetables, and dry well, and their stems make light brown fiber that is very soft, fine, and strong. I have heard of a similar, elusive wild ramie, Boehmeria cylindrica, who grows in similar habitats and does not sting, but have never found them.

- Milkweed, Asclepias syriaca, is very good, with a pleasant flavor if you don't boil it out. They are also fiber plants, with very bright white fibers that are strong, but not quite as strong as nettle. They grow many edible parts: the shoots, growing tips, flower buds, flowers, and very young fruits. I boil them with other greens (without changing the water) and some salt and spices, and they turn out quite delicious; however, eating too much milkweed may leave one feeling slightly ill, as happened to me when I had no other vegetables. But do not let this discourage you.

- Ground ivy is more an herb than a vegetable, but raw, I like them in pesto and chopped over other foods. Cooked, I am afraid they lose their flavor.

- Elm leaves, I have tried once and liked the flavor. They taste... like elm. In some places, the seeds are abundant, and they are delicious. They are a bit laborious to harvest and process from the common elms, Ulmus americana, but red elm (Ulmus rubra) have larger seeds. I have heard of Siberian and rock elms also having large seeds-- but red and rock elm (Ulmus thomasii), they are not common enough that I would know whether the seeds could make any significant contribution to the diet.

- Acorns! I have found the best way of cooking them for me to be boiling them, usually halves, in enough changes of water to make them not bitter. It takes a long while, usually a few days, but they are very good in the end, and where they are able to grow lower down on the hills, acorns are abundant-- which is not very many places these days, with the changing ecosystems. I notice young oak trees on high hilltops with wind and poor soil, but this is not where acorns are abundant, as well as in disturbed edges in oak forests-- but nowhere else. This worries me; oak is probably the most valuable perennial food in our region, for acorns as a source of calories as both fat and starch, and for the healthy mushrooms who grow on and under the trees, and as a rule, they are not regenerating. I believe the forests are too shady for their regrowth, and speculate that in the logged areas where the oaks might be able to regenerate, oak trees may be overharvested and thus there are no sources of seeds. My favorite acorn grove is a forested hillside with rich soil, where trees are cut in a more discriminating manner creating sunny patches, and the oak trees are left to grow; there are also abundant hen-of-the-woods and black trumpet mushrooms, and a chicken-of-the-woods log. My experience is with red oaks; white oaks, I have found on the less fruitful hilltops, where I have nibbled on some raw, but I have not yet found enough to be significant.

- Potato. In the wild, in milder climates, they can overwinter in the ground, but here, that is true for very few varieties. One came back for a few years in my garden, but this spring I dug into the ground, hoping to find a meal, and instead found starchy, mushy, dead potatoes. Maybe some will return? (I don't know the variety yet-- they have abundant flowers and round yellow tubers.) I hope to breed a variety that will be perennial here at some point-- I think that would be wonderful.

- Garlic. Lots of people like these, and they are easy to grow; I planted a variety of cloves in the autumn, and now, I am finding them sprouting in all kinds of places where I barely expected them. I love ramps, and at the moment I have not the slightest desire to eat stored garlic bulbs-- but garlic has the reverse seasonality, which is helpful. The leaves, often ignored, are very good too.

- Bladder campion-- At some point, the seeds fell into one of the gardens, the one with the poorest soil, and sprouted. Now that they are in the second year of growth, they taste sweeter, and rather less bitter, and they are quite early. The variety I grow is Silene csereii, called Balkan Catchfly.

- Canada lily bulbs are delicious, somewhat like potatoes with a sweet flavor, and uncommon. I see them only occasionally, and have replanted some, tasting a few scales as I did so, and leaving most of the patch. I suspect that harvesting them may disturb the soil in a way that they like, but doubt they like ploughing or haying very much. I remember reading about them written about rather highly as an Abenaki food, so their current rarity would appear to me a result of traditional ecological practices being replaced with colonial agriculture. They grow in sunny areas in floodplains. Wood lilies are a very rare relative, also supposed to be edible and similar in taste.

That’s really interesting! Great list. How do you eat campion? Shoots? I love all campions but Balkan catchfly is especially pretty I think.

Marisa Lee wrote:That’s really interesting! Great list. How do you eat campion? Shoots? I love all campions but Balkan catchfly is especially pretty I think.

We do eat the campion as shoots-- they become tough after that stage, but the flower buds at the ends of the shoots are edible too, so by eating most of them, that ensures that they branch out with growing tips continuously throughout the summer. I like them, but there is not much yet, so I have been adding a few shoots to salads or with other cooked greens.

Nancy Reading wrote:

Rob Downes wrote:We grow several varieties of perennial kale ( Taunton Dean, nine star broccoli and Daubenton. We are in west Cornwall UK, not sure what zone that is in USA. other foods we enjoy are Austarian tree cabbage, sea beat, the wild ancestor to all beats and Chard. Ghard can be perennial if you continue to cut the flower stalk and you dont have harsh winters. Still in the process of converting over to perennials have just planted Turkish rocket but unsure of its taste, however it is great for pollinators and has pretty yellow flowers, so even if its yuk they will stay, its a prolific self seeder so will need to be kept an eye on and is also hard to remove if you dont like it as any tiny piece of root will regrow.

Hi Rob, nice to see another Brit here on Permies!
Perennial kale is good with me too. Only one of the two I started with likes it here on Skye though. I suspect you are theoretically zone 9 there like I am, but US zones don't translate well, since we are too wet in winter and cool in summer compared to the US. The closest climate is the NW of the states: Oregon and Washington I believe.
I'm very hopeful for my Turkish rocket. I've heard the flower buds can be used like broccoli which is interesting to me. I have a few plants which I'm hoping to try this year.  Probably the nicest perennial veg I've tried is my Japanese yam, although I think it needs warmer weather to do well. I find Hablitzia Tamnoides (caucasian spinach) perfectly pleasant too. Asparagus is great, although I grow it mostly in the polytunnel here because of the wind.  I'm still learning to cook solomon's seal to try and reduce the bitterness. there is a really nice undertaste I would describe as pea like, but the bitterness needs reducing a bit further for me.

Hi Nancy, I havent tried Japanese yam myself, our caucasian spinach has struggled, i may be to close to the sea. have you heard of Alan Carter, he forest gardens in allotments and gardens in Aberdeen. He has a new book out which has some good insights for growing perennials up your way.  

Rob Downes wrote:

Nancy Reading wrote:

Rob Downes wrote:We grow several varieties of perennial kale ( Taunton Dean, nine star broccoli and Daubenton. We are in west Cornwall UK, not sure what zone that is in USA. other foods we enjoy are Austarian tree cabbage, sea beat, the wild ancestor to all beats and Chard. Ghard can be perennial if you continue to cut the flower stalk and you dont have harsh winters. Still in the process of converting over to perennials have just planted Turkish rocket but unsure of its taste, however it is great for pollinators and has pretty yellow flowers, so even if its yuk they will stay, its a prolific self seeder so will need to be kept an eye on and is also hard to remove if you dont like it as any tiny piece of root will regrow.

Hi Rob, nice to see another Brit here on Permies!
Perennial kale is good with me too. Only one of the two I started with likes it here on Skye though. I suspect you are theoretically zone 9 there like I am, but US zones don't translate well, since we are too wet in winter and cool in summer compared to the US. The closest climate is the NW of the states: Oregon and Washington I believe.
I'm very hopeful for my Turkish rocket. I've heard the flower buds can be used like broccoli which is interesting to me. I have a few plants which I'm hoping to try this year.  Probably the nicest perennial veg I've tried is my Japanese yam, although I think it needs warmer weather to do well. I find Hablitzia Tamnoides (caucasian spinach) perfectly pleasant too. Asparagus is great, although I grow it mostly in the polytunnel here because of the wind.  I'm still learning to cook solomon's seal to try and reduce the bitterness. there is a really nice undertaste I would describe as pea like, but the bitterness needs reducing a bit further for me.

Hi Nancy, I havent tried Japanese yam myself, our caucasian spinach has struggled, i may be to close to the sea. have you heard of Alan Carter, he forest gardens in allotments and gardens in Aberdeen. He has a new book out which has some good insights for growing perennials up your way.  

lol just read further down the thread and see you do know of Alan Carter

Rob Downes wrote:

Hi Nancy, I havent tried Japanese yam myself, our caucasian spinach has struggled, i may be to close to the sea. have you heard of Alan Carter, he forest gardens in allotments and gardens in Aberdeen. He has a new book out which has some good insights for growing perennials up your way.  

lol just read further down the thread and see you do know of Alan Carter


Ha ha! Yes we had a give away of his book on Permies not long ago, and I won a copy (although I had already bought one as well) so I was able to give one away to my sister in law! Alan is a little warmer in summer and cooler in winter, but yes much more similar than other forest gardener authors. I also get on well with Alison Tinsdale of Backyard Larder's writing, although she hasn't written a book yet she does sell interesting perennials on her shop, but you have to be quick!

I'm only a mile and a half from the sea here, the wind is sometimes salt laden like tears. I think Hablitzia do need some shelter and take a while to get going. Mine is tucked into a north facing wall see my blog post here for how I prepared for it. They still took a couple of years to get going, but the last couple of years have done quite well and seem to set seed.

Four perennial veg with dinner tonight:



Left to right:
Taunton Deane perennial kale, Asparagus, Good King Henry, Turkish Rocket flower shoots.

The Turkish Rocket is a new one for me. Since it is supposed to be a bit hot in flavour I decided to fry it in butter, so I did the same with the Good King Henry and Asparagus too. The GKH can be a bit bitter, so I tried blanching it - bringing to the boil in water and then leaving in cold water for a bit before frying. Either that worked, or the butter took the edge off the bitterness, since I though it was nicer than usual that way. The leaves on the Turkish Rocket caramelised slightly, but certainly weren't too hot. It's only the plants second year, so there isn't much more coming. but we liked it so hope it will survive well for us. I've got some more seed, so will try and get a few more plants established too.
Asparagus sweet and lovely as ever. Kale leaves cooked briefly on top of boiled carrots get a nice sweetness from the carrots too.

Nancy Reading wrote:Four perennial veg with dinner tonight:
Left to right:
Taunton Deane perennial kale, Asparagus, Good King Henry, Turkish Rocket flower shoots.

Thank you! I've been trying to find photos of the edible Good King Henry "shoots" for years, and this is the first time I've seen it.

peppers and eggplant are perennial.

It's not a perennial vegetable, but at least in Northern Texas purslane self-sows so readily that it might as well be. It has a lot of culinary uses and is very common in Mexican cuisine, among others.

As a regular eater of Jerusalem artichoke, which I prefer to call sunroot, I would like to add my 2 cents. If you eat them regularly (starting small), they make a wonderful addition to your diet. So easy to grow and good for you. I harvest mine all at once (soil is heavy clay and not pleasant to dig through once it's cold and wet), and roast what I can fit in the oven low and slow. That gets made into sunroot and leek soup, with garlic, stock, coconut cream and thyme. The rest is lacto fermented and used throughout the year for more soup, adding to salads (sunroot and potato salad is so good), and a new favourite which is sunroot and potato latkes.

Otherwise I also grow nettles, hostas, and asparagus for perennial veg. I grew Turkish rocket last year but haven't harvested it yet, same for Egyptian walking onion and shallots (looking to establish a perennial patch). This year I'm sowing hablitzia, good king henry, and perennial kale. And a neighbor has offered me some Solomon's seal so I think I'll take her up on that!

My experience with sunchokes seems to be different than others.  The more recently I pulled them from the ground, the less gas.   When eaten immediately, I have little to no gas , whether raw or cooked, peeled or unpeeled.  A week later, and it's not fun for anyone.  Has anyone else noticed this difference?

Bunching onions are a true perennial in most climates.  As are Salad Burnet, Chives, Lovage, Garlic Chives, Staghorn Plantain (AKA Erba Stella)  and Caucasus Spinach. Erba Stella  (Minutina, Staghorn Plantain) is particularly delicious with a mild  flavor, and crunchy texture. Domesticated chicory and endive are palatable as mature heads, but wild chicory and wild lettuce, while bitter as mature plants, are treats in early spring.  

In addition to the plants that are perennial all the time in all climates, and the tropical perennials, (tomatoes, peppers, moringa, etc.) are a number of plants that are either perennial in mild/temperate/Mediterranean climates or are annual crops with perennial tendencies.  The most useful and palatable in my opinion is Perpetual Spinach, a form of Chard that is milder than the usual annual kind. Usually,  the perennial version is more astringent, bitter, or otherwise strong-tasting, as others have said on this thread. Perpetual Spinach has thinner stems and milder, softer leaves than regular chard. It lasts several years in my garden in zone 7 to 8 and withstands a lot of freeze/thaw.  The other staple in my garden is perennial arugula, which is quite pungent as a salad green, but only moderately spicy as a cooked green, especially if you use the Italian trick of throwing the leaves into the pot along with pasta, after the pasta is in the pot and boiling strongly. Drain the two together and add grated cheese, oil, garlic, or whatever.

In addition to the plants--often special clones grown from cuttings, bulbs, etc--that are always perennial, there are varieties of  leek, kale, chicory, collards, and other standard vegetables, that tend to perennialize in milder zones if you don't till the ground or tear them out. Tree collards, which are grown from cuttings rather than seed,  are well-known to be a dependable perennial in zones 7 or 8 to 10. But older varieties of normal collards often go perennial too--like the Old Timey Blue Collards that are sold as annuals but are still lush and productive in my garden after 4 years. Or the Cottagers Kale that is likewise grown from seed and often proves to be perennial.
Quail Seeds has a pretty comprehensive page of perennial veg that can be grown from seed. https://www.quailseeds.com/store/c11/Perennial_Vegetable_Seeds.html. They also carry Tree Collard cuttings. https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p312/Tree_Collard_Cuttings.html

Taste, extreme growing difficulties, true spatial requirements and ease of use for crops are such personal "requirements" that we all take into account already. We should add growing zones and soil suitability to the problem too.
Someone mentioned "fartichokes" as a nice, crunchy perennial. The objections was that it causes stomach discomfort/ distress. I grew some pink ones a couple of years ago and I could not use them: they went to the chickens for the most part. Now, I grow some  white sunchokes and even when eaten raw, they do not cause such digestive problems. I should add that I eat them cooked, with a little mayo, in which case they become soft and mushy and very tasty. I can eat quite a few tubers thus prepared, so perhaps, there is some adaptation, some recipes that would prove more suitable and not cause belly pains.
In zone 4b, [Central Wisconsin] they grow extremely well, so it would be a pity to not grow them. Asparagus, with its inulin has a taste quite reminiscent of sunchokes, as a matter of fact, but they do not keep as well as sunchokes.
Another perennial I'd love to grow is crosnes. They too have a slight artichoke taste:
https://www.foodrepermies.com/2016/10/13/what-are-crosnes-the-sunchoke-alternative-now-in-season/
The size is only 2" though, and I can't justify growing them when there are so many better choices that will yield more for the effort involved, like regular potatoes.
In the end, what we chose to grow are the perennials that stand at the confluence of soil/ weather requirements first, keeping qualities, yield for the effort involved, availability of better vegetables and personal taste.
I like rhubarb and make a point of growing a few, yet every year, I find them bolting too early. I end up making a couple of pies/ sauce/ jam but I really do not "like" them that much.
Grain beans are not perennials but they do contribute a lot for the ease of keeping, their versatility is recipes. Same thing with lentils and other pulses.
I plan to grow chestnuts: I have not had much success so far as zone 4b is probably their northern limit but I have a couple that are surviving [I can't say "thrive" yet.] For the ease of keeping and growing once they are established, the fact that they do not occupy acres of land for the quantity of nuts they will give is an attractive perennial. It tastes wonderful besides and you can add it to savory dishes such as stuffing and desserts, such as the "crème de marrons" of my youth.
Although it is not a perennial, I would be remiss if I didn't mention sweet potatoes. Not the orange kind, which I find stringy and not really good without adding brown sugar and bacon. Japanese sweet potatoes [yams ,really]  keep for months on a shelf in your pantry: No special storing, like potatoes or carrots. You can also use them in sweet or savory dishes, so it does "double duty".
I like celery, so this year, I also want to grow Lovage. It is a perennial that tastes like celery but will come back year after year without replanting, so Yeah! for Lovage. [It is just so difficult to get seeds or plants!]

Plenty of ideas here.

I enjoy milkweed stems.  They taste a lot like asparagus , but some species of milkweed are poisonous.  I only eat showy milkweed.

Another favorite is the developing seed from Siberian elm, I start eating as soon as they are big enough, if there are plenty.  They are best when the green surrounding the seed is well developed, but the seed in the center is still tender.

Lambs quarters, leaves before they get tough, technically, probably a prolific reseeding annual, but they’re there every year unless I take action against them.

About the inulin in the sun chokes, it’s a valuable food for some beneficial intestinal microbes, the kinds you want to maintain.  I drink chicory root tea daily for just this reason.  I have for years.  I must have adjusted to it, because I don’t have the problem of extreme flatulence described previously.  (And others do not avoid being in enclosed spaces with me🤣😉)

Kat Peters-Midland wrote:

Kathy Crittenden wrote:Two perennial vegetables I would endorse are hopniss, already mentioned, and hostas, which are a real delicacy just as they are coming up as shoots.  I understand one can also eat the older leaves, but I haven't tried them.

Hi Kathy - so how do you prepare the hosta shoots?  saute?  raw?

All of the above. Here are some ways I have tried:
Two from https://foragerchef.com
• Vignarola – a stew of early spring wild greens
• Pan Seared Hosta Shoots with Ramp Butter
From https://learningandyearning.com
• Bacon Wrapped Hosta Shoots
From https://barbaraprice.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/eat-shoots-and-leaves/
• crisp salad of hosta shoots served over baby greens dressed with a reduced balsamic vinaigrette, crumbled fresh goat cheese), and toasted pecans.

Enjoy!

Stacy Witscher wrote:Do ground squirrels eat hopniss? I tried google, not much help.

They will nibble some...the voles do here...but if they like where you planted them you'll still get a serious crop. And if you have chickens, they are mighty fond of boiled groundnuts!

Kathy Crittenden wrote:Two perennial vegetables I would endorse are hopniss, already mentioned, and hostas, which are a real delicacy just as they are coming up as shoots.  I understand one can also eat the older leaves, but I haven't tried them.

I learned from sad experience that deer like hostas more than anything else in my yard. I gave up on the hostas!

one of my VERY favorite spring flavors comes from Alliums. in my region we have allium ursinum first thing in spring and I missed my window due to poor health to harvest enough of the seed pods to pickle them and eat throughout the year with GREAT delight.  
you can also make a (not long lived) Kimchi out of them. delicious.
We also have allium vineale here, but due to current circumstances again, I have to rely on foraging for them and I only get very occasionally lucky enough to be able to wait untl the seed pods arrive which dried make a great flavor for soups but the fresh greens I find regularly and they are so much more aromatic than chives.
What I really wish we had and will definitely try to cultivate when I get some more land is ALlium paradoxon/three corner leeks. their little onions , collected in th fall, make the BEST little pickle throughout the rest of the year,
I am also looking forward to the spring Aegopodium podagraria (ground elder is it?) we prefer it over spinach and make pastries with it and tempura works well too.

I really feel your pain, I feel like there is a lot of talk about going less annual, and doing restorative agriculture but very little in terms of culinary resource material. People will only follow when the food is already scarce or when there is a viable, yummy cooking culture to be taken advantage of.

I hope the next space will afford me some oaks and some peaches... I feel both of these are nowhere NEAR explored on a culinary basis, I found that peaches when a bit tart work very well and similar to tomatoes, though obviously the very sweet ones are different.

I also second Miner's lettuce, I used to have a really big patch nearby but they killed it off, sigh.

C Murphy wrote:As a regular eater of Jerusalem artichoke, which I prefer to call sunroot, I would like to add my 2 cents. If you eat them regularly (starting small), they make a wonderful addition to your diet. So easy to grow and good for you. I harvest mine all at once (soil is heavy clay and not pleasant to dig through once it's cold and wet), and roast what I can fit in the oven low and slow. That gets made into sunroot and leek soup, with garlic, stock, coconut cream and thyme. The rest is lacto fermented and used throughout the year for more soup, adding to salads (sunroot and potato salad is so good), and a new favourite which is sunroot and potato latkes.

Otherwise I also grow nettles, hostas, and asparagus for perennial veg. I grew Turkish rocket last year but haven't harvested it yet, same for Egyptian walking onion and shallots (looking to establish a perennial patch). This year I'm sowing hablitzia, good king henry, and perennial kale. And a neighbor has offered me some Solomon's seal so I think I'll take her up on that!

I would really like to hear how you lactoferment the sunroot, that sounds intriguing. I hope that this year I will catch my hostas at the correct time to try them.

Sonja Corterier wrote:
I am also looking forward to the spring Aegopodium podagraria (ground elder is it?) we prefer it over spinach and make pastries with it and tempura works well too.

Ooh! My ground elder is just coming into leaf now, I've not used it much to date. So do you just steam it as a vegetable, and stuff that in pastry cases? I must try that this year. I've made liqueurs with it. I quite liked the result - to me it had chocolate overtones, but not everyone who tried it was keen. 'medicinal' was one of the terms used! My husband also isn't keen on celery family plants, and I've got a feeling that groundelder falls in this camp too, despite the very dissimilar growing habits.

Nancy Reading wrote:

Sonja Corterier wrote:
I am also looking forward to the spring Aegopodium podagraria (ground elder is it?) we prefer it over spinach and make pastries with it and tempura works well too.

Ooh! My ground elder is just coming into leaf now, I've not used it much to date. So do you just steam it as a vegetable, and stuff that in pastry cases? I must try that this year. I've made liqueurs with it. I quite liked the result - to me it had chocolate overtones, but not everyone who tried it was keen. 'medicinal' was one of the terms used! My husband also isn't keen on celery family plants, and I've got a feeling that groundelder falls in this camp too, despite the very dissimilar growing habits.

I am not sure if it does but it may well be. my husband prefers it over spinach. and yes, you can steam teh leaves a bit and add a bit of egg slurry and sage or otehr spices and then fill that in a pastry and bake. its quite good. herb quiches also work well with it

I imagine that lamb's quarters, spread as they are all over the US (and probably elsewhere), might have a different flavor in different places.  I have found them, and stinging nettle, to have very mild flavor, and pleasant.  I'm drinking nettle tea at the moment and it's so good, easier to drink than green or black tea!

I've also done well with plantain - can't recall the name of the variety right now, but it's the one with long thin leaves and a very tall flower stalk.

I plan to devote myself to teaching my gut how to eat Jerusalem artichokes.  The long list of benefits published above didn't include, if I recall correctly, weight loss!  

Great topic. I have grown Green Sprouting Calabrese broccoli that has survived at least two winters. Hoping it grows back again this year. I collected seeds from the prolific, seemingly perennial, plant.

That sounds like a great variety of broccoli, Bethany, what’s your winter like?  I don’t know usda zones very well.  Does the ground freeze?  Does the ground get a protective covering that insulates and protects roots, soil and crops?

And I should simply ask what were the conditions the winters the broccoli survived.  That’s what I really want to know
Thanks

Thekla McDaniels wrote:That sounds like a great variety of broccoli, Bethany, what’s your winter like?  I don’t know usda zones very well.  Does the ground freeze?  Does the ground get a protective covering that insulates and protects roots, soil and crops?
And I should simply ask what were the conditions the winters the broccoli survived.  That’s what I really want to know
Thanks

Bethany indicates that she lives in the Pacific Northwest, zone 8. This is the kind of things you can grow in zone 8:
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/gardening-by-zone/zone-8/zone-8-plants.htm
In zone 8, these are the perennials that you can expect will survive, and yes, broccoli is one of them:
https://www.allaboutgardening.com/perennial-vegetables/#:~:text=Perennial%20Vegetables%20for%20Zone%208
If you skip down a bit, they give you all the States that have some piece of zone 8 in them as well as the perennials there.
For what it's worth, I never knew that broccoli could be kept over the winter in any zone as they are a cold weather crop. I learn every day!

One of the reasons I have seen for growing edible perennials is to reduce the amount of time I need to invest in the crop. Here in the tropics, Hawaii, food grows fairly readily if one is willing to invest the time and labor. For me, time is my limiting factor. It is always in short supply.  So some perennials make sense.

I do grow some perennials, mostly in my food forest and along margins. The selection I grow is determined by how readily I can sell or trade it, or if we like to eat it. There are plenty of perennials here that I don’t bother with. Actually, lots of them.  Plus there are a couple I’d like to try but haven’t chanced upon cuttings yet.

Perennial vegetables  I have growing (some are frost sensitive, so won’t be perennial outside of the tropics). These are ones we actually harvest.
Pipinola , as called chayote, mirliton, etc
asparagus
Chaya
Okinawa spinach
Cholesterol spinach
New Zealand spinach
Malabar spinach
Purslane
Plantain
Garlic chives
Eggplant
Peppers (only some varieties won’t die out after a year or two)
Tomatoes (some types will last 2-3 years before becoming over mature. I suspect they could be pruned for longer production, like we do the eggplants.)
Lima beans, if pruned after each harvest
Green onions
Basil
Oregano
Mints
Collards
Edible hibiscus
Sweet potato
Taro (can be treated as a perennial with proper tending)
Yacon

I’ve had Hawaiian landrace pumpkins and edible gourds grow for well over a year without tending to them, so I suspect that if I were willing to put the effort into them, I could keep them pruned and tended for much longer.

I’m starting perpetual spinach this year to see how it does for us. And I wish I could grow breadfruit on my farm, but alas I cannot. But luckily it grows on a farm I volunteer work on. I’ve become fond of breadfruit salad, made like potato salad.

I agree with others, that if it takes too much effort or tastes not so good, I won’t bother with it. Those are what I term "famine foods". If I was hungry, then I’d grow and eat it. Otherwise I just pass them by. Like jackfruit here. It grows abundantly, and is used as a vegetable, but I’m not impressed by it. We simply feed the jackfruits to the pigs.

I am in a climate that is transitioning from historically being warm temperate to temperate/subtropical, so there are a few more options for perennial vegetables.

Starchy vegetables
* Potato: some local varieties (in particular the purple-fleshed 'tutaekuri') can and have survived without any attention for decades in abandoned gardens. They yield less than modern cultivars, but the yield/effort is good for extensive gardening
* Kūmara (aka sweet potato): the leaves as well as the tubers can be eaten. Very palatable, but yields are lower than potatoes, and require a much longer growing season -- not very space efficient, but a local tradition. Bothered by few pests, and no blights locally, unlike potatoes
* Galangal: delicious gingery rhizome requiring basically no care and pretty pest free. Has beautiful, fragrant orchid-like flowers. Will produce heaps of food even in partial or full shade. Can get up to 2m tall
* Ginger & Tumeric: it is becoming possible to grow these locally as well. Large plants, will not tolerate frosts well
* Jerusalem artichokes: These are star producers. They are also delicious. They are, however, high in inulin and, like others, I have had bad experiences with eating them (doubled over in pain!), slicing them and fermenting them for 3 days (starting with 1 tsp of sauerkraut juice) created vigorous frothing in my fermentation jar, and subsequently spared my gut!
* Yacon: Delicious root vegetable. Can be dug, peeled, and eaten raw, with a sweet, crisp flavour some have likened to a nashi pear. Has less inulin than Jerusalem artichokes and hasn't caused me any gastric distress. A tall plant -- thought needs to be given to positioning. Can survive in part shade and still produce, however -- I'm growing mine between an orange tree, the fence and the shed and it's still growing merrily. I can only eat so many tubers, though, so one plant is enough! Don't peel and leave on bench as the juices turn green, which is slightly disconcerting!
* Oca (Oxalis tuberosa): A shiny, bumpy tuber with a slightly tart aftertaste. Great in a root vegetable roast. Easy to confuse plant tops with the various weedy Oxalis, though!
* Skirret: A perennial carrot used by the Romans, and still occasionally available for sale today. Yields are not amazing
* Onion weed (Allium triquetum) bulbs: a weedy perennial originally from Europe that makes small, marble-sized oniony bulbs underground. Grows aggressively in grasslands and verges. Great substitute for pickling onions. As onions, each bulb must be peeled -- best foraged rather than grown in the garden
* Bunching onions
* Queen palm fruit: very fibrous, with a flavour strangely reminiscent of corn-on-the-cob, this fruit feels more like a starchy veg and is very sustaining during long cycling journeys (which is when I usually run across these trees). Trees take up a lot of space initially, and fruit difficult to harvest when mature
* Water chestnuts: easy to grow. Fresh, they have an almost coconuty flavour. Stay crunchy when cooked, making them great for soups, pan-fried dumplings, and stir-fries. Yields much lower than other stachy veg, but good for a waterlogged place, or potentially as a stop along a water filtration system

Other perennial vegetables with some calories
* Artichoke: Extremely delicious, and one of my favorite vegetables full-stop. However, it's a bit of a space-hog, getting over a metre in diameter and 1.5m tall
* Avocado: Technically a fruit but used as a vegetable -- the trees grow like weeds; it's not uncommon for them to put on 1m or more of growth per year
* Olives: Great drought-tolerant plants yielding extremely calorie-dense fruit. The brining process isn't too hard, and is 100% worth it. I even brine oil olives for eating, and they're amazing. Trees can be used as a fruit-producing hedge if pruned carefully
* Queen palm kernel: very hard to crack, but tastes exactly like a beautiful fresh coconut -- a delicious treat for those living outside the tropics!
* Scarlet runner beans - a good short-lived perennial bean. Produces large beans that are great cooked. Some folks use the younger pods as green beans, but they are stringed and a bit hairy. Needs staking up
* Lima beans - another perennial bean, also needs staking
* Bronze fennel seed: these plants just keep going and going, and a large quantity of seed can be harvested from them in season
* Shark-fin melon (aka fig-leafed gourd; Cucurbita ficifolia): stringy flesh great pasta substitute, but the real star are the high oil content seeds within

Low-calorie vegetables (still delicious)
* Asparagus: look forward to it every spring!
* Bunching leeks
* Bamboo shoots: Must be processed -- but this is not too difficult. Takes up a LOT of space, though, and extremely invasive. Best foraged out of the local patch of invasive bamboo
* Chayote (choko): Extremely versatile perennial squash with plans for world domination. It is not uncommon for single vine to yield >100kg of fruit
* Fennel bulb: Interestingly, bulb fennel (known for being biennial) is perennial in my climate, and will make 4-10 smaller bulb fennels off the main stalk after flowering
* New Zealand Spinach: a spreading succulent with slightly astringent leaves that, when cooked, are quite similar to spinach. Great for making saag. Does better in the summer heat than true spinach -- can climb fences and be efficient in garden footprint that way
* Onion weed (Allium triquetum) leaves: a weedy perennial originally from Europe. It's fine-strap-like leaves are an early spring green, and I love putting them in stir fries and into my pan-fried dumplings. Only produces greens for a couple months in the spring unless the season is pretty wet. Best foraged.
* Rhubarb: tasty fruit substitute. Makes a good soda. Will not do well in a damp location -- I have to keep mine in a pot because the ones I planted in the ground died.
* Stevia: easy-to-grow, very sweet. If you let it flower or dry out, it will get bitter. Will not do well in partial shade -- full sun only
* Toon tree leaves: dark, complex, oniony taste. Good in a stir fry. Young pink leaves only, or else they get too tough. These trees have beautiful wood (related to mahogany), but sucker up really aggressively. Best get some off of someone else's tree!
* Tomatoes: perennial in their native range, can be perennial locally if protected from frost
* Peppers: star performers in their second and third years -- my jalapeno bushes made 20 peppers each in year 1, and 200 each in year 2! Worth the trouble of babying them over winter for sure
* Roccoto chilies: more cold tolerant perennial pepper between 2-16x as spicy as a jalapeno. Really good flavor. I've struggled to get these going, however.
* Garden herbs: chives, garlic chives, thyme, rosemary, oregano, lavender, bay laurel, loveage, alexanders, angelica, sage, mint, lemon balm and many others
* Tea

Honourable mention also to nuts and seeds, which are a more reliable source of perennial calories -- acorns, almonds, chestnuts, heartnuts, walnuts, and macadamias are the local nuts of choice

@ M Broussard: If you can grow water chestnuts, have you considered trying Lotus Root? I like it sliced and baked, but it's too cold for me to grow and only available in our "fall" from Chinese markets. The seeds are considered edible. I got some seeds from a Chinese market and was able to germinate them.