Why held for editing?

I was notified my post (one of several on Wednesday evening, I don't know which, would not be published but was held until being edited, for being vegan propaganda? But the topic was about vegan community, in the vegan forum. Everyone posting in the thread was talking about veganism and community, how can my post, one of them anyway, be withheld for being vegan propaganda, in the discussion about that topic, in the vegan forum??

If you got a Purple Moosage, it should explain how the post didn't meet publishing standards in bold text.

Is this what you're asking about?

(for more information on how permies works, including the publishing standards, please see the "how permies works" link in my signature)

It was a vague vegan propaganda that was in my answering what I was asked in the recent thread in the vegan forum. I don't understand why. What is wanted? I did try editing. Not knowing what part was the problem, I took out all my answer. I put in that I can't submit the answer to what was asked. That still is not accepted. What is wanted? I want to submit something, and so far I can't.

This was the notice to what I wanted to submit after editing (everything) as I was told, and wrote my alternative reply.

The provided clue is:

"this reads like vegan propaganda and is not appropriate to this site, which is about permaculure, not agriculure.  please check our publishing standards and rewrite to allow for other people's opinions, avoiding claiming 'truth' or absolutes, and be careful to not insult other members or make things personal.  "

This is the edit that is still being held, for what I show I was told, above. What is supposed to be different? How?

"... Could you explain further?"


Yes, I think I can. I will try...

Well I did try, I answered explaining it thoroughly. Then later I saw I was notified by this forum that my post would not be published without editing it
When I came here to see, there was a bot notification saying the post not published was not acceptable, for being vegan propaganda. I was not offensive with it at all though. I came here to see which one, and it was this post just to answer you as you asked. My full answer to you is not accepted, for being vegan propaganda. So though I could, I can't answer what you ask here. Maybe something more specific in my answer was what needed editing. But nothing I am told shows what that is, and I really can't tell. There is no one to just ask, that would guide in what can still be communicated, it will be like a shot in the dark. The whole thing was just to answer you. Well, it is copied still, if I am ever told what I can still communicate, or how I can actually answer you adequately, I still have what I can yet use, however much that is, for that. I didn't ever see how speaking to answer about veganism would be unacceptable in this vegan forum though.

If you make an edit to a post,  it can take a while for a moderator to review your changes and see if the post is acceptable after the change. I have had posts blocked for me to make changes and after I did,  it still took a while for it to show up.  Maybe give it a little while.  Everyone that moderates here is a volunteer,  they may just not have gotten to it yet.

Okay, I can wait. I don't know if there is something wrong with it or not, but I had no way to know there was something wrong the first time, just answering what I was asked as well as I could. It looked like a different bot response after the try with the edit, as if the edit was a problem.

I haven't actually looked at the post in question.  However, from what you're saying here, I suspect these threads might help.

https://permies.com/t/7304/tnk/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas
https://permies.com/t/36936

at permies we aim to be welcoming to people of all dietary and lifestyles.  Sometimes discussing veganism can lead to people saying "you must..." or "all people should..." or other kinds of phrases that shame others for not conforming to the posters point of view.  The old Vegan vs. Omni debate is not a meal we are interested in rehashing here.  

Perhaps that's what has happened with your post.  Maybe there is something in it that is shoulding on non-vegans?

About 90% of the time if something doesn't meet publishing standards, it simply vanishes.  There must be something really great about your post to have it put on probation.  If it remains on probation, then it's either a moderator hasn't had a chance to look at it or it's not quite there yet but showing definite signs of improvement.  



Another thing that can lead to the edit not being approved is if you mention moderation decision in your post.  Discussion about moderation is restricted to the tinkering forum.

At permies, we aim to create perennial resources without the chaff.  

This is another great thread https://permies.com/t/3069/toxin-ectomy/Wheaton-Eco-Scale

It reminds us that not everyone is at the same place in their life.  On permies we try to make space for people of all levels.  Sometimes it's difficult to remember that we had to start somewhere.

I found the thread and read both the original, and the edits...

The original post reminded me of the literature that I used to hand out to people when I was a missionary. Types of statements that don't meet publishing standards would include things like, eating meat is "ruining the world", or veganism "is for everyone".

The original post had a lot of "truthiness" to it. Making statements that may or may not be true about bees, animal agriculture, wildlife, etc. The moderators have learned through long experience, that it is best to not publish those types of statements, because they just lead to quarrels and flame wars.

So, the bottom line, is that you are welcome to advocate for veganism, as long as you are not writing angry things about the evil meat-eaters who are destroying the world. Share your own beliefs, and your own experiences without belittling meat eaters, or their methods, and you'll do fine.

This is a forum devoted to building better alternative ways of living, not to tearing down the old ways. Show us by your example that your way of life is superior. Post photos of vegan meals that make our mouths water, and entice us to eat the same way. I have had a lot of fun with the thread: If a vegan friend visited you today, what could you make for them?

raven ranson wrote:I haven't actually looked at the post in question.  However, from what you're saying here, I suspect these threads might help.

https://permies.com/t/7304/tnk/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas
https://permies.com/t/36936

at permies we aim to be welcoming to people of all dietary and lifestyles.  Sometimes discussing veganism can lead to people saying "you must..." or "all people should..." or other kinds of phrases that shame others for not conforming to the posters point of view.  The old Vegan vs. Omni debate is not a meal we are interested in rehashing here.  

Perhaps that's what has happened with your post.  Maybe there is something in it that is shoulding on non-vegans?

About 90% of the time if something doesn't meet publishing standards, it simply vanishes.  There must be something really great about your post to have it put on probation.  If it remains on probation, then it's either a moderator hasn't had a chance to look at it or it's not quite there yet but showing definite signs of improvement.  



Another thing that can lead to the edit not being approved is if you mention moderation decision in your post.  Discussion about moderation is restricted to the tinkering forum.

At permies, we aim to create perennial resources without the chaff.  

If I already submitted an edited form that has nothing of my original response, can they see that which was originally sent as response? It is already gone from this forum site, isn't it?

What I tried in the edit I show above, it mentions I can't send the answers to what I was asked. Is that discussing the moderation decision unfairly? Is it that I can't answer, but I can't say that I can't answer, for the limitations, here?

Discussion of moderatin in response to a post being put on probation would likely trigger total removal of the post.  Not many of the staff would want to waste more time on that situation.

I suspect what you need to remember is that this is a permaculture site, where we discuss ways to make the world a better place using permaculture.  Spouting standard anti-meat stuff using vegan vs standard agriculture arguments is simply irrelevant as the whole board is already moving away from that system.  It stinks of the propaganda we've been exposed to many, many times before and we're not interested in hosting that type of discussion.  If you're here simply to attempt to convert people to your belief system rather than trying to inspire them or help them along a path they are already interested in, then this is not the place for you.  Your call.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:I found the thread and read both the original, and the edits...

The original post reminded me of the literature that I used to hand out to people when I was a missionary. Types of statements that don't meet publishing standards would include things like, eating meat is "ruining the world", or veganism "is for everyone".

The original post had a lot of "truthiness" to it. Making statements that may or may not be true about bees, animal agriculture, wildlife, etc. The moderators have learned through long experience, that it is best to not publish those types of statements, because they just lead to quarrels and flame wars.

So, the bottom line, is that you are welcome to advocate for veganism, as long as you are not writing angry things about the evil meat-eaters who are destroying the world. Share your own beliefs, and your own experiences without belittling meat eaters, or their methods, and you'll do fine.

This is a forum devoted to building better alternative ways of living, not to tearing down the old ways. Show us by your example that your way of life is superior. Post photos of vegan meals that make our mouths water, and entice us to eat the same way. I have had a lot of fun with the thread: If a vegan friend visited you today, what could you make for them?

I didn't get to your post before answering above. I didn't mean to send a duplicate of my answer that was shown above, but that second post was only supposed to be editing the first, and I didn't see it would be a second post.

I really don't want to communicate that I know my opinions are right, and others are wrong. I also didn't know the original can still be seen. If I know what should be taken out, and I am willing to remove the part you mention, do I have access to that, to edit it that way? I could show it isn't opinions of mine but real basis for those statements that could be shown, but I will yet willingly leave them out. I do show answers to what I was directly asked, though, which has basis.

I would willingly work on the original if it will be available to do so. Otherwise I would just have that thoroughly edited one saying I can't answer, to send.

PS I wasn't calling meat eaters evil, and was not judging any one, in what I sending.

Burra Maluca wrote:Discussion of moderatin in response to a post being put on probation would likely trigger total removal of the post.  Not many of the staff would want to waste more time on that situation.

I suspect what you need to remember is that this is a permaculture site, where we discuss ways to make the world a better place using permaculture.  Spouting standard anti-meat stuff using vegan vs standard agriculture arguments is simply irrelevant as the whole board is already moving away from that system.  It stinks of the propaganda we've been exposed to many, many times before and we're not interested in hosting that type of discussion.  If you're here simply to attempt to convert people to your belief system rather than trying to inspire them or help them along a path they are already interested in, then this is not the place for you.  Your call.

As I said, it isn't belief systems but what can be shown very well from information I find available. But I already said I would edit to leave such out. But if I can't answer what was asked me, then I could just say I can't answer, and not say anything of why, though I really could answer, in real life.

I originally was thinking I was posting to other vegans, in that forum that is called "Vegan", I had no idea of problems with speaking about it.

I will try my best to edit what I can answer in the acceptable way.

I would say one more thing that I neglected, but this is really the case. I came with thinking, though I see since that there isn't basis for that case, that the vegan forum was where vegans were communicating. When I posted the response in question, it really wasn't meant as propaganda at nonvegans. I actually thought I was talking to a vegan who didn't know the reasons. It was a vegan forum so I was thinking vegans were there to respond. It is silly I see now, it is viewable to all those on the forums and they all would respond to what I post there. It is surprising to me still that, though a topic for it, in the vegan forum, evidently there are not any who respond who are vegan. Yet as there is a vegan forum, there should be vegans coming to the site. That I saw to expect. So, I mean, no propaganda directly at nonvegans was meant. That was a vegan forum so it was with that I thought the answering as I posted wasn't a problem. Still I say honestly, even though I would edit it out, it has basis that could be shown.

I would recommend checking all your posts with a fine-toothed comb for anything that sounds like you are not allowing room for other people's opinions, or that any of the opinions you express are 'truth' rather than simply your opinion or one possible interpretation.  Failing to do that is going to drive away your readership and invite moderation. Try words like 'some' rather than 'all' and avoid sweeping statements.

In fact, I'd go check some of your recent ones very, very soon.  

staff see from many different cultures and background so they have brod idea what fits with 'nice'

sometimes it's hard to see their view because of blind spot.  But good to listen and they make final decision what is published.

You want published, listen staff.  They have reasons sometimes the reisons aren't undesrtandadable, but they also have power to choose what stays.