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I remember my posts. None of them should have been deleted in the first place.

Navigation in this site is not that easy.
Hard to remember which place what goes where.

I get a like for a comment in my email but when I go there my post has been deleted.

It is frustrating when this happens.

I do see deviations from thread topics and those deviations are usually not deleted.

If I do something wrong then by all means let me know.

Had to stop making mistakes when you are unaware you are making them.

THanks.



 
master steward
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Hi Kai!

Moderating a forum like this is definitely not easy, and often no matter what we do, someone is unhappy about it. Thank you for posting here in Tinkering, rather than in the main forum. That really helps everyone on the forum!

We do have a tool we can use called "Almost-a-Post" (also sometimes referred to as "Probation"). This is a tool that allows us to tell someone what they did that didn't fit publication standards (wasn't nice, was telling other people what to do, was Cider Press stuff outside of the Cider Press, etc), and it allows the person to edit the post so we can publish it.

Sometimes, when we use this tool, people yell at us for censoring them. They often yell at us even more than if we just delete their post. That sucks up a TON of our time, and we're all volunteers just trying to help people learn about permaculture and build a better world. So, we often just delete posts.

If you would like, we can use the "Almost a Post" tool on your posts to help you understand what, exactly, was causing distress. But, if you start complaining about it, we'll probably just resort to deleting posts. We'd love to work with you, though!

And, I understand that permies is a bit difficult to navigate. I'm working toward finding a way to make this thread (http://www.permies.com/t/34193/tnk/permies-works-links-threads) a link at the top of the screen. It's full of good information about everythign from what apples mean, to how to post images, to our publication standards, and even how to write book reviews. There's also a Welcome Letter (http://www.permies.com/t/43625/introductions/Universal) linked to in that thread, too.
 
steward
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Kai: Welcome to the forum.

We do things a bit different around here than the average Internet forum. Permies may be thought of as a curated publication, rather than as a free-for-all forum. The forum is intended as a safe place for gentle folks to discuss permaculture. The overarching theme on this site is that posts need to be nice before they are added to the permanent record. There are a lot of active staff, and every staff member needs to agree that a post is nice before it is published. Some curators think that it isn't nice to tell other people what they should do, "Never eat fish from the pacific ocean". Some staff think that it is not nice to speak in absolute terms such as "The entire world is poisoned" because they say that invites quarreling from those that believe differently, or can think of an exception.  Being angry at bad people isn't appropriate on this site. The people that are here already know the world is messed up, no reason to discuss it further.  We advocate presenting ideas to inspire people to live better. Some curators think that it isn't nice to state opinions as if they were facts, or to quote "science" to make a point. Joking responses rarely get published.

Here's some posts to give you a flavor of what to expect on the site.

Publishing Standards:
https://permies.com/t/17422/tnk/permies-publishing-standards

Be Nice:
http://www.permies.com/t/2296/tnk/nice

Leaving room for other people's ideas
http://www.permies.com/t/7304/tnk/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas

Did you just should on me?
https://permies.com/t/36936

How Permies Works (more links to great stuff):
https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

 
Kai Walker
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Yes please sign me up for the almost a post thing.

It takes time for people like me to learn the nuances of a particular site forum.

I like this place and do not intend to cause anyone heartache at all.

Hoping to make new friends and share experiences and knowledge.

I too had to moderate forums before.

I see where you are coming from.

Also, it is very hard to know the (emotional) intent of the messages posted as there is no body language or voice tonals involved.
That too was a challenge back in the day! (I ran a free computer help site on MSN years ago. Thousands of members - took a LOT of time too)

My posts are meant to be informative, factual, educational, humorous, and plain old fun.

Please never assume anything to the contrary.

My apologies if I caused anyone any problems.

THANK YOU!

Question: Did you know my wife made me afraid of squirrels?

Why you might ask?

Because she said I was a 'NUT'...

Go figure!

 
Kai Walker
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Kai: Welcome to the forum.

We do things a bit different around here than the average Internet forum. Permies should be thought of as a curated publication, rather than as a free-for-all forum. The forum is intended as a safe place for gentle folks to discuss permaculture. The overarching theme on this site is that posts need to be nice before they are added to the permanent record. There are a lot of active staff, and every staff member needs to agree that a post is nice before it is published. Some curators think that it isn't nice to tell other people what they should do, "Never eat fish from the pacific ocean". Some staff think that it is not nice to speak in absolute terms such as "The entire world is poisoned" because they say that invites quarreling from those that believe differently, or can think of an exception.  Being angry at bad people isn't appropriate on this site. The people that are here already know the world is messed up, no reason to discuss it further.  We advocate presenting ideas to inspire people to live better. Some curators think that it isn't nice to state opinions as if they were facts, or to quote "science" to make a point. Joking responses rarely get published.

Here's some posts to give you a flavor of what to expect on the site.

Publishing Standards:
https://permies.com/t/17422/tnk/permies-publishing-standards

Be Nice:
http://www.permies.com/t/2296/tnk/nice

Leaving room for other people's ideas
http://www.permies.com/t/7304/tnk/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas

Did you just should on me?
https://permies.com/t/36936

How Permies Works (more links to great stuff):
https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads



I will try to phrase things differently from now on.

Thank you for the information.

Is permaculture intended to be organic?
If so, why?

Have you read this article?
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-scientists-categorize-earth-toxic-planet.html

I have found many many reputable similar articles.

Just wondering.
 
Joseph Lofthouse
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Kai Walker wrote:Is permaculture intended to be organic?
If so, why?



Paul, the site owner, doesn't want to talk about chemicals. Therefore discussion on this site is limited to "Organic or better".

 
master steward
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Kai, it's very simple.  

Posts that do not meet publishing standards are removed.  This is NOT open for discussion.  


Permies.com is a highly moderated site.  Your posts are eating up a huge amount of staff time by posting things that do not meet publishing standards.  The staff here are volunteers who donate their time to permies because they are lovely people who feel permies is a nice place to spend their time.  

It sounds like you are telling us how we SHOULD run this site.  This isn't going to work.

Permies.com is run the way that Paul Wheaton, the owner and self-proclaimed tyrannical dictator, says it will be run.  If you feel okay with that, then you'll make the effort to learn what is expected of you when you post to this site.

If you are like most of the human race and aren't comfortable with a highly moderated website, then it may be time to look elsewhere.  

You are a hairsbreadth from being banned from this site.  Think carefully before you post again.  
 
r ranson
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Kai Walker wrote:Yes please sign me up for the almost a post thing.



Almost-a-post is for posts that are almost perfect.  They have to be pretty amazing but have only one tiny thing wrong with them.  

Almost-a-post uses up a lot of staff time and a staff member has to like the post enough to think it's worth putting the energy and effort into improving.  Nine times out of ten, the person who needed to change one tiny thing throws a tantrum about moderation instead of changing that one tiny thing to meet publishing standards.  If someone has a history of complaining about moderation, it makes staff less inclined to use this feature.

Also, the post has to be amazing with only one tiny flaw.  If a post has a lot of flaws or nothing in it that meets publishing standards, it gets removed.  

 
Kai Walker
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r ranson wrote:

Kai Walker wrote:Yes please sign me up for the almost a post thing.



Almost-a-post is for posts that are almost perfect.  They have to be pretty amazing but have only one tiny thing wrong with them.  

Almost-a-post uses up a lot of staff time and a staff member has to like the post enough to think it's worth putting the energy and effort into improving.  Nine times out of ten, the person who needed to change one tiny thing throws a tantrum about moderation instead of changing that one tiny thing to meet publishing standards.  If someone has a history of complaining about moderation, it makes staff less inclined to use this feature.

Also, the post has to be amazing with only one tiny flaw.  If a post has a lot of flaws or nothing in it that meets publishing standards, it gets removed.  



I am willing to comply with the rules. No problems here at all.

Please do not ban me.

It won't take very long for me to figure out (with a little help) how you do things here.
And I am not trying to tell anyone how to run anything.

Just trying to fit in is all.

I am sorry I take too much time.

Please allow me the opportunity to be a valuable member here.

Thanks!
 
Kai Walker
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I will reread the posting guidelines of this site again tomorrow.
A bit late tonight.

I plan on adhering to them to the letter.

 
r ranson
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Kai Walker wrote:
It won't take very long for me to figure out (with a little help) how you do things here.



You've been here since December 2017 and have over 230 posts.  That's already a long time to figure out how things work here.

this resorse will provide you with everything you need to know about how permies.com works

 
Kai Walker
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r ranson wrote:

Kai Walker wrote:
It won't take very long for me to figure out (with a little help) how you do things here.



You've been here since December 2017 and have over 230 posts.  That's already a long time to figure out how things work here.

this resorse will provide you with everything you need to know about how permies.com works



I have been absent from here for a long while and am a bit out of touch with things.

I will reread the rules again and earnestly will comply with them if you will allow me to stay.

I don't know what else I can do.

I am very sorry for any problems.

Please forgive me.
 
Joseph Lofthouse
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Short one or two line posts burn up a lot of staff time, and don't contribute much information to a thread.

It would really help us in the short term, if you could limit your posting to a few substantial posts per day. Tell us about the permaculture projects that you are doing. Avoid mentioning how other people are doing them wrong, or questioning their reasons.  
 
gardener
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Kai Walker wrote:

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Kai: Welcome to the forum.

We do things a bit different around here than the average Internet forum. Permies should be thought of as a curated publication, rather than as a free-for-all forum. The forum is intended as a safe place for gentle folks to discuss permaculture. The overarching theme on this site is that posts need to be nice before they are added to the permanent record. There are a lot of active staff, and every staff member needs to agree that a post is nice before it is published. Some curators think that it isn't nice to tell other people what they should do, "Never eat fish from the pacific ocean". Some staff think that it is not nice to speak in absolute terms such as "The entire world is poisoned" because they say that invites quarreling from those that believe differently, or can think of an exception.  Being angry at bad people isn't appropriate on this site. The people that are here already know the world is messed up, no reason to discuss it further.  We advocate presenting ideas to inspire people to live better. Some curators think that it isn't nice to state opinions as if they were facts, or to quote "science" to make a point. Joking responses rarely get published.

Here's some posts to give you a flavor of what to expect on the site.

Publishing Standards:
https://permies.com/t/17422/tnk/permies-publishing-standards

Be Nice:
http://www.permies.com/t/2296/tnk/nice

Leaving room for other people's ideas
http://www.permies.com/t/7304/tnk/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas

Did you just should on me?
https://permies.com/t/36936

How Permies Works (more links to great stuff):
https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads



I will try to phrase things differently from now on.

Thank you for the information.

Is permaculture intended to be organic?
If so, why?

Have you read this article?
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-scientists-categorize-earth-toxic-planet.html

I have found many many reputable similar articles.

Just wondering.



Kai, its addressed in the first link joseph posted:

paul wheaton wrote:Some sites on the internet will publish anything that anybody submits.  This is not one of those sites.  People will submit all sorts of stuff here, and most of what is submitted meets my publishing criteria.  And the rest is removed.

I want to talk about permaculture innovation.  I wanna talk about eco building.  I wanna talk about alternatives to the grid and saving energy .... there are hundreds of things I wanna talk about.  And there are thousands of things that are not a fit for permies.com.  

If people want to talk about GMO's, herbicides, politics, religion they really need to find someplace else.  

Another thing is that innovation requires a lot of brainstorming.  Along the way comes stories like "I once heard of a guy that ..." or "didn't I read somewhere that you could ...." and this sort of attempt to figure things out is not helped by comments like "Citation needed." or "that's bullshit." or "prove it."

Another thing is that some folks are certain that their path is the only path and that other paths are unacceptable.  That sort of thing is unacceptable to me.

I tend to delete anything that suggests that anybody on permies.com is less than perfect.  I'll even delete stuff that suggests that somebody that might come to permies.com is less than perfect.   Or if a group of people is less than perfect and somebody on permies.com might be part of that group.

I am supportive of vegans and omnis alike.  So I don't allow bashing by one of the other.

I created these forums to talk about a few things I want to talk about, in a limited way I want to talk about them.

As time passes, I hope to expand on my thoughts in this space.  And I invite people to ask for clarity.





 
Kai Walker
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Short one or two line posts burn up a lot of staff time, and don't contribute much information to a thread.

It would really help us in the short term, if you could limit your posting to a few substantial posts per day. Tell us about the permaculture projects that you are doing. Avoid mentioning how other people are doing them wrong, or questioning their reasons.  



Thank you for your suggestions.

About the questioning for their reasons - if someone doesn't know or understand why someone is doing something, like myself, how can one learn without asking questions?

Isn't the purpose of this site to learn and share experiences/knowledge? To help one another?

I am confused again.


 
pioneer
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Kai Walker wrote:

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Short one or two line posts burn up a lot of staff time, and don't contribute much information to a thread.

It would really help us in the short term, if you could limit your posting to a few substantial posts per day. Tell us about the permaculture projects that you are doing. Avoid mentioning how other people are doing them wrong, or questioning their reasons.  



Thank you for your suggestions.

About the questioning for their reasons - if someone doesn't know or understand why someone is doing something, like myself, how can one learn without asking questions?

Isn't the purpose of this site to learn and share experiences/knowledge? To help one another?

I am confused again.




Kai, I don't want to speak for Joseph, but my own opinion is that I appreciate it when someone asks me why I'm doing something or why I choose to do it a certain way if I feel like they are trying to understand something. I don't like it if someone asks if it feels like they are looking for a reason to tell me why I'm wrong.  The difference in wording is important, and I'm still working on it myself.  Here is an example. If you ask me "why do you put a ring of comfrey around your trees near the drip line?", it sounds like you want to know why i do it, and I'm happy to give my reasons.  If you ask "why would anyone put a ring of comfrey around a tree's drip line?", it sounds like you're calling me a dumbass and the question makes me feel like I have to defend why I do it.

At least that is my take on it. As I said, I'm working on it myself and I still get posts deleted too, so I'm clearly not an expert.
 
gardener
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Kai, it's really quite simple. Be nice. All the time. I've seen most of your posts lately. Some are excellent. Others are not & it's often because of a poor choice of words not the thought itself. This is NOT the Navy. There are many sensitive souls here. If one keeps that in mind for all future posts they will find that things generally go much smoother here.

1. Stay on topic. Minor deviations are often acceptable & useful but talking about giraffes in a watermelon thread (imaginary example) are too far off course.

2. Words like should & never & always are best avoided. Leave room for other people's opinion.

3. Not everything on the internet is true. My truth might be different than another person's truth. If you want to use something as a reference please try to include a link to it so the reader can judge for themselves.

4. Chemicals? Generally not allowed on permies unless the discussion is how to eliminate or avoid them.

5. Sometimes it seems as if some people constantly try to push the limits to see what will fly & what will not. That probably won't end well. I suggest reading the previously supplied guidelines thoroughly.

IN MY OPINION it might be helpful to pick whoever seems to be the most difficult moderator & write to their standards. We're all nice people. We also follow Paul's guidelines to the best of our abilities. We truly enjoy permies, in large part because of those guidelines.
Can't speak for other staff but the bottom line is I'd rather read & learn something new & give away apples than stress about things that make me go ARGH!!! I have better things to do than constantly waste valuable time with that.

edited to correct a typo ... the preview button might have prevented that.
 
Joseph Lofthouse
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Kai Walker wrote:Should I footnote everything from now on?
Does make for a lot of work on my part.



Basically, we don't like quarreling about "scientific" papers. Cause for every paper that someone cites, there may be another that says the opposite. I recommend avoiding "Appeals to Authority" to show that someone is wrong.

"Truth telling" really isn't what this site is about. We are more about sharing our personal observations in the real world.
 
Nicole Alderman
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I like to post citations, just so people can see where I found my info and read more than I wrote. But, I don't do it in a, "You all need to believe this because it says so in this article." I think how we use our sources is important.

When I first came to permies, there wasn't any list of helpful threads that explained things. Now there is!

How Permies.Com Works

It's got links about apples and citations and a whole lot more. It's like our "frequently asked questions." Just like you'd read a websites "Frequesntly Asked Questions" before emailing them, see if we've got the answer in that thread. Speaking of, maybe when I have a spare moment, I'll make a formal "Frequently Asked Questions" thread.
 
pollinator
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I like to use citations, and to see them, because someone interested in what I'm talking about can easily read the source material. It saves me a lot of typing. Also, if my interpretation isn't the only possible one, they can tell me that. Or, if the citation I am using is obviously not the best one, they can tell me that too, and point me towards their source material.

For me, it's less about what is said and more about how, as I think Trace mentioned. If your question makes me feel stupid, or get defensive, I am less likely to be nice in my return post. Which isn't good. It's why we try to all be nice, all the time.

I have mentioned this elsewhere, but this is not the site on which to "score points" in arguments. If you finish composing what you feel is a ripping good response to someone's post, and you salivate in anticipation of their response to your response, it's probably advisable to stop and reread it. If it's not a really great recipe that you think they will just love, or a super-helpful technical response to a question they asked, that you think will help them immensely, it's probably not well-meant.

This is a place to not only be nice, but helpful. If a post isn't meant to help, and if it isn't funny in a kind way, it probably could do with a rewrite, or to not be posted at all.

-CK
 
Kai Walker
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feedback requested.

Are my posts in conformity now?
I do try to not be a burden.

Thanks for all your patience!
 
Get me the mayor's office! I need to tell her about this tiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
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