Where I Place my Steps

I am always surprised at how little Spiritual talk there is amongst the folks of this group. It sometimes almost seems that Spirit does not exist. I've often wondered why that is, but I suppose for some people that's just the way it is (isn't). And maybe others therefore just feel less inclined to talk of such, not wanting to disturb any others.

For me, adding your body to your garden is most important. It's the only thing you truly own. So when you sweat onto the ground you garden, when you add your fingernails and hair to your garden, you are truly adding yourself. That ground, that place, is becoming you. You are putting your physical being into that ground, you are placing (if you will) your essence, your spirit, into that ground. It may be one of the reasons some old time farmers become so attached to their land. Their land is of them. It is of many generations of their family. It is where sometimes their ancestors are buried, composing new soil. It is where small pieces of themselves now reside.

So, yes, it is good to put yourself into your land. Scientifically it adds certain nutrients and such like. But, beyond all that new age science stuff, there is the bond and connection to your land that the conscience giving of yourself helps to form. It can be thought of as a Spiritual act. It can be thought (felt) to be a Ceremonial act. The giving for what you are receiving. The creating of a bond that you might otherwise possibly be missing.

Farming for me, is a deeply spiritual experience. I dance in the garden, I chant and sing while planting, weeding, and harvest. My friends often join me in song and dance. I walk barefoot in the garden in remembrance of the Moses meme of taking off shoes in sacred places. I love feeling mother under my feet. We even have special costumes that we put on for garden festivals and celebrations.

I put seeds in my mouth before planting so that I can mingle my DNA with that of the plants. Mushroom spores seem to be especially appreciative of DNA mingling.

I eat dirt. My essence, and that of my entrained microflora,  is constantly being shed into the garden. If I ever cut myself in the garden and start bleeding, it's a great time to stop and have a ritual of giving of my essence to the soil.

I prefer to use human motive power rather than machines. Maybe that's just me not understanding the spirituality of the machine.  Most of winnowing is done in a breeze, and not in front of a fan. It's all part of my attitude of honoring mother and her ways.

Oh, and when I'm in the garden, I'm constantly foraging. Every bite is sacred to me. Like a sacrament.

Jim Fry wrote:I am always surprised at how little Spiritual talk there is amongst the folks of this group. It sometimes almost seems that Spirit does not exist. I've often wondered why that is, but I suppose for some people that's just the way it is (isn't). And maybe others therefore just feel less inclined to talk of such, not wanting to disturb any others.

And for those of us for whom that is, indeed, the way it isn't, the converse is pretty much true as well.  I'm not disturbed by talk of spirit, but there's almost literally nothing I can share about my opinions on the subject that would not require exquisitely cautious phrasing to come within the publication standards here.  And even once I had accomplished that difficult task of diplomatic authorship, to what purpose?  My opinions either way aren't going to advance the work of permaculture, and they might well alienate me from people here whose comradeship and joint efforts I greatly value.

I have a friend who lost the great love of his life because she was a goddess-centered neopagan and -- to greatly oversimplify -- he would not stop snickering.  If there's a stage of wisdom beyond learning from your own painful mistakes, it's learning from the painful mistakes of others.  

hau Jim, I think that spirituality is an individual thing that each person should express the ways that make sense to them.

I honor my land and all living things on it, trees, rocks, animals, insects and all the other beings of this world.
I nurture my land and animals, plants and make sure those who are wild that wish to live with us can find themselves a home.
I was raised catholic but I also hold to my people's beliefs from the old times and part of my duty is to nurture my people in the old ways.

I think that you offering little bits of yourself to your land does make you feel more connected to it, it is always a good thing to be connected to the earth mother, it is what is missing in most peoples lives, and has been for many, many years now.

Redhawk

It would be hard to put into better words what Dan Boone said, yet I will try, only because I do not feel I have anything to add to the land.

My family eats, and via our leaching system, it gets dispersed back out. And from our labors, our sheep graze, eat, and disperse it back out. Even though some may condemn the practice, for 30 years now I have harvested wood, and while I take a tree, from that tree comes many seedlings, and in places of our forest, I have harvested 4 times in 30 years. EVERYTHING here is a labor of love, and the circle of life.

The biggest thing is, I do not consider this "MY LAND". As a 9th generational farmer, it is merely under my control for a few years. On average, for a farm family, that is about 40 years. All I can do is the best I can, like my Father, Grandfather, and Great Grandfather's before me. That means letting those without acres, hunt here since the animals are never "mine", nor on "My Land." The fact is, in 1994 I built a house in THEIR front yard. It is a whole different perspective, but far more accurate.

I know some think it is a shame Katie and I are selling our homestead, but there is nothing to be sad about. We have (3) houses, and look forward to having a new neighbor and sharing what God has blessed Katie and I with. For the right person, it would be a really great win-win situation. Again, there is nothing to be sad about; another homesteader can really grab the homesteading baton we have built, and really run with it. We cannot wait to see what they do with their new enthusiasm.

As for me, as I traverse my forest looking at trees to harvest, or what streams have for mineralization, I just marvel at God's handiwork. I even sit upon a stump sometimes and think. In fact I think more of the world's problems could be cured if more people pulled up a good ole hemlock stump and did some thinking.

Jim Fry wrote:I am always surprised at how little Spiritual talk there is amongst the folks of this group. It sometimes almost seems that Spirit does not exist.

It might be too personal to discuss with others.

The last time I posted something that touched on this subject was when I quoted and agreed with someone else's post and added a few thoughts of my own. Both the quoted post and mine disappeared so obviously something said wasn't okay.

So this time I will just say that I agree with Dan, because although it isn't a thorough summary of my thoughts and feelings, it is good enough.

My husband and I plan to add ourselves to the land, permanently:  https://permies.com/t/87862/ungarbage/Green-Family-Cemetery

This website is a funny place. This morning I posted a reply to a topic titled something like, "Using hair in the Garden". I primarily said that for me, giving my hair and fingernails and such like, back to the land was a mindful and Spiritual act for me. It seemed appropriate, and I was OK with what I wrote being a part of that discussion.

This evening I find that my post is gone from there, and now is the opening for a discussion about Spirit. And it now has the title of "Adding Yourself to the Land". Kinda surprising how things happen here. (As an aside, I once had a post that simutaniously received an apple from one apple giver, and was censored and removed and apple taken by another "authority". Sorta confusing how that happened.)

Never-the-less, it is fine to be an unwitting topic starter, even though it was never my intention. The only thing that might be nice about the whole affair is maybe having a bit more input to the newly choosen title. I don't really see myself as Adding to the Land (although certainly that is what happens). I more experience the mindfulness of giving of myself to Earth, ~as a becoming of Earth. I suppose if I was of a mind to give a title to the giving of myself, I might title it maybe something like, "Where I Place my Steps".

There is a story told to me long ago by an Elder. She wondered at the practice of many people to give a pinch of tobacco to Earth, when they do Ceremony. She understood that they did that as a sacrifice to Earth. But she wondered if maybe pulling out some of your own hair and giving that to Earth might be (more) "good", than buying some cigarettes and giving them to Earth (She of course was ever so much more eloquent in how she said that).

It's a pleasant thought that wherever I step, where my hair is now new soil, where the fluids of my own body, where I am ever mindful to be aware to walk in different patterns so as to not create a trodden path and ask too much of the particular blades of grass to over and over again bear my weight, where I see all the connectedness of all the life around me, where I greet each day and every Big Foot or Little Person or Fairy or Spirit, ...is just the same as my earlier family had done before me.

This is all Ceremony to me. It is of Spirit for me. It is good. If you share such belief or actons, that is fine with me. If you do not, that is fine also. We all get to experience life as we will. I might get to experience some things that some of you do not. But I am likewise sure that there is much that some of you know, that I do not.

~~P.S. Since I would try to never end anything I might have to say or do about Ceremony with a word like "not", I will say one last thing tonite. I Trust that All of You will receive every single thing that is good and necessary for each and every one of you. For no matter what you experience, as long as you learn, then everything is "good".

Jim Fry wrote:This website is a funny place. This morning I posted a reply to a topic titled something like, "Using hair in the Garden". I primarily said that for me, giving my hair and fingernails and such like, back to the land was a mindful and Spiritual act for me. It seemed appropriate, and I was OK with what I wrote being a part of that discussion.

This evening I find that my post is gone from there, and now is the opening for a discussion about Spirit. And it now has the title of "Adding Yourself to the Land". Kinda surprising how things happen here. (As an aside, I once had a post that simutaniously received an apple from one apple giver, and was censored and removed and apple taken by another "authority". Sorta confusing how that happened.)

Never-the-less, it is fine to be an unwitting topic starter, even though it was never my intention. The only thing that might be nice about the whole affair is maybe having a bit more input to the newly choosen title. I don't really see myself as Adding to the Land (although certainly that is what happens). I more experience the mindfulness of giving of myself to Earth, ~as a becoming of Earth. I suppose if I was of a mind to give a title to the giving of myself, I might title it maybe something like, "Where I Place my Steps".

You're more than welcome to change the title! I can change it for you, too, if you'd like. I think what happened in this thread is that you'd posted about religion outside of the Cider Press. We often delete posts like that, since we don't' want big religious debates happening taking over threads. One moderator realized that you have enough apples to post in the Cider Press, so instead of deleting, your thread got put here. And, when we do that sort of splitting of threads, we have to make a title, so we pick something just to get the thread made. You should see some of the lame titles I've made when splitting posts out of a giveaway welcome thread to make them eligible for the giveaway, Man, are my titles lame!

Anyway, we usually don't discuss moderation outside of Tinkering, so your above post almost got deleted for that. But, since things got all confusing with the creation of this thread, I figured it would help readers to understand the history of how this thread got made.

I know sometimes moderating here looks confusing, but we really are trying our best to keep this site lovely, and it sure isn't easy sometimes!

Now it makes sense Nicole.

Normally I do not make a reply that is so title-specific, but this one was, and so when the name changed again, it kind of threw off everything I said. Not that it matters, I was just wondering why the Title Change. Makes sense now!

Jim Fry wrote:
There is a story told to me long ago by an Elder. She wondered at the practice of many people to give a pinch of tobacco to Earth, when they do Ceremony. She understood that they did that as a sacrifice to Earth. But she wondered if maybe pulling out some of your own hair and giving that to Earth might be (more) "good", than buying some cigarettes and giving them to Earth (She of course was ever so much more eloquent in how she said that).

It's a pleasant thought that wherever I step, where my hair is now new soil, where the fluids of my own body, where I am ever mindful to be aware to walk in different patterns so as to not create a trodden path and ask too much of the particular blades of grass to over and over again bear my weight, where I see all the connectedness of all the life around me, where I greet each day and every Big Foot or Little Person or Fairy or Spirit, ...is just the same as my earlier family had done before me.

This is all Ceremony to me. It is of Spirit for me. It is good. If you share such belief or actons, that is fine with me. If you do not, that is fine also. We all get to experience life as we will. I might get to experience some things that some of you do not. But I am likewise sure that there is much that some of you know, that I do not.

~~P.S. Since I would try to never end anything I might have to say or do about Ceremony with a word like "not", I will say one last thing tonite. I Trust that All of You will receive every single thing that is good and necessary for each and every one of you. For no matter what you experience, as long as you learn, then everything is "good".

hau Jim, I am of the same mind as the elder you speak of.
I see many who do things for ceremony but many don't seem to understand the meaning of the word sacrifice, so they go through the motions of ceremony without really understanding the significance to their heart that it is supposed to bring.
I have even been told by a few people who do this that they don't really know why they are doing the ceremony, that means they aren't receiving what is meant to come to the person performing that ceremony. (I've heard it described as "going through the motions")
Those of us that perform ceremony for and in the spirit receive far more than what words are able to convey.
It is a nourishment from the spirit world and those that live in it smile upon us and perhaps we are fortunate enough for them to give us guidance when we need it.

My people use this saying; Mitákuye Oyás’iŋ , it means all are related.
Or you might say that everything is dependent upon everything else.
The great circle of life is really the great circle of existence.

Redhawk

Since I was a very small boy, just old enough to go outside to water the bushes barely aided, I knew that excreta was fertiliser. I had the erroneous feeling that solids must be more relevant than liquids, but nonetheless, I communed, in the animistic way small children may with what they imagine to be the spirit of the tree or shrub they are watering, every time I peed on their toes.

I don't think animism is the correct term, in its original meaning, in that everything is literally accorded its own spirit regardless of its physical nature and reality; I don't ascribe the same respect of living things to really old piles of stones, or even mountains, except in the way that mountain systems support diversity and often aquifer replenishment, as I do a living tree, or even a heaving, writhing compost heap. But even at that young age, I had a reverence for nature, and for natural processes, and an awareness of the impacts we could have.

I, too, feel that not only does sharing this type of reverence in words feel too exposed for such a private thing, I find words inadequate; I almost feel like I am sullying what I am discussing.

I was also raised Catholic, and was, for quite some time, a choirboy, singing at least an hour each weekday in practice, and an hour of warmup for an hour-long mass on Sundays. That is where my appreciation for ceremony devoid of real meaning and connection to my life died. The singing became a job, and the worship became work. I suppose that enabled me to start dissecting it, or disassembling it for useful parts.

But even Catholics have a tradition of being quietly pious, at least in aspiration. There is a religious saying that extols the virtue of the quietly fervent worshipper, the catholic who stands always at the back of the church, and contrasts that faith with that of a churchgoer who goes to be seen that they go, who stands in the front row and puts on a show of it, to show just how strong their belief is.

If I had to, right now, commit to an avenue of philosophical and theological study, it would be humanism. If it needed more ceremonial for the purpose, I would study Wicca. I am, in fact, just not formally.

Faiths of the book don't really address earth-care, beyond some token passages in Genesis; it certainly is overlooked where it comes to environmentalism, trumped by that pesky "dominion" line.

But older house-spiritualism, hearth faiths, as they were at times known, putting out milk and a food offering for the house hob, or for the wee folk out in the garden and such, do connect with an idea of sacrifice and a return to the land. Wiccan-oriented hunting rites often involve thanking the beast for its' sacrifice, seeing that it wasn't out of wantonness, but out of need that they were killed, and asking "the powers" to witness the cleanness of the kill, that the animal didn't suffer, and a reminder that as we all come from the Mother, to Her we shall return. This also exists as a form for the thanking of all for the harvest of trees.

I feel that the further we take ourselves out of formalised worship, and make it something so intensely personal that it's almost impossible to express with words, the more pure the effort. If it can be evangelised, it's too dilute to be of any use, in my opinion.

I intend to be buried on my land, wherever it ends up being, whenever that turns out to be necessary. I will probably design and prepare a hugelcoffin, a large, probably willow-woven, human-sized basket casket with lid. Mine wll be a hugelbeet burial mound, and it will grow at least one of my favourite medicinal plants, in a guild with others, and with more culinary herb offerings, and pollinator forage; I will become medicine, to ease the pain of my passing for those who mourn me, and return my surplus, the body my spirit will have done with, to the soil and the plant, animal, and fungal kindreds.

-CK

Chris,
I hadn't really thought about talking about what I would have happen to the rest of my body when I'm done with it this lifetime. But, since you mentioned it, I would like a variation of your idea. I'd like this body to be cremated and then the ashes spread under our apple trees. Then every Fall, folks could walk by and pick an apple and take a bite. And hopefully say, "Jim's tasting pretty good today."

Years ago I used to be much more active in talking about people's questions (not that I know a darn thing, but, hey, what are you going to do when asked). I used to get letters from all over (the world) from folks asking stuff. One fellow wanted to know if I could send him an Eagle feather. He thought he would like one for doing Ceremony. I wrote back (this was before internet existed) asking him what kind of Eagle feather he would like, ~Fast Diving Eagle (Hawk), House Dwelling Eagle (Barn Swallow), High Flying Eagle (Eagle), Circling Eagle (Buzzard). And so on. He didn't write back. I always hoped that that might have helped him find deeper meaning in Ceremony. I trusted that he might have found (deeper) intent. There is so much more than just the form. There is the meaning behind form.

What this has to do with what you wrote? I guess it was your comment about the mountains. I also have had folks ask me about talking with Stone People. They want to know how. I told them that it's simple. Stone Folks want to talk with us. They almost have a need to talk with us. There is simply so much we Humans don't know. And Stone know so much. They have been here longer than any other People. They have seen it all. Felt and experienced it All. But they are so used to us people ignoring them for so long, that they mostly just don't talk so much anymore. But they will. Just go sit with them. Maybe lean back against them. And be quiet. And wait. And sooner or later you might learn a good thing. It might take a day, maybe a week, maybe even a lifetime. But sooner or later, if intent is clear enough, and the asker is patient enough, Stone People (or Plant People, or Animal People, or even Standing Upright People) will talk with us.

Maybe all that is part of the reason I put my "clippings" into this land my family has care taken of for so long. The intent to give back. The intent to Listen. It's certainly good for the soil. But its even better for my relationship with Earth, and all those who dwell here. ~~And now and again we all get to learn a good thing from each other.

Jim Fry wrote:I am always surprised at how little Spiritual talk there is amongst the folks of this group. It sometimes almost seems that Spirit does not exist. I've often wondered why that is, but I suppose for some people that's just the way it is (isn't). And maybe others therefore just feel less inclined to talk of such, not wanting to disturb any others.  

I think it's a touchy subject, and I want to share briefly, my thoughts, hopefully in a way that isn't clumsy or offensive and may offer a glimpse into what makes me tick and why I'm a sort of misfit. I was raised in a cult, and left when I was fourteen years old, nearly thirty years ago. I used to be angry about being taught hypothesis, half-truths and downright lies as facts and truth, completely being misguided, but eventually realized I just need to move on and make choices for myself and not be angry. It left a sour taste in my mouth and I choose not to have anything to do with any religion. Gardening is spiritual for me. Being in nature is where I am at peace and feel a connection to something more than my five senses tell me. I love having my hands in the soil, planting a seed, and nurturing life into existence which will in turn nurture my body, mind and spirit. There's something about the experience of having the sun shining on me, birds singing, breeze blowing, planting seeds in the soil crawling with bugs and worms moving about that just makes me happy. Walking in the woods and being still, observing creatures just living their life for today with no concern for yesterday or tomorrow makes me smile. How I wish I could be so simple.

For me, adding your body to your garden is most important.

I want to be buried on my farm when I expire, no coffin, in contact with the soil, so all the atoms that make up my body can return to the earth and feed the soil food web, grasses and surrounding trees.

We put out offering for the spirits of the land (land-vaettir) and those of the home (house-vaettir), approaching such things from surviving pre-Christian ethnic traditions (Asatru – German/Norse).  The ethical patterns of Permaculture sync within this framework, influencing how we engage with others, establish healthy boundaries, and promote our egoic needs while remaining mindful of others.  

I’ve researched a few other traditional ethnic faiths and they all pretty much follow the same formula: respect for land, honoring ancestors, preserving your honor, and respecting spirit.  Cultures, climates, and skin colors may change, but people tend to approach the universe in similar ways.  Even Christianity was often basically just a veneer over older folk practices (from European, Central America, and West African traditions).  Pre-modern people lived much closer to the land, and thus had to respect it for survival.  It seems like this more active, less “left-brain” life-style places people closer to Spirit (whether you perceive that as the sub-conscious mind or something more concrete).

I believe it’s very important to approach spirituality (along with other thought systems) from a place of personal power, first understanding your own ethical and psychological foundation before choosing an ideology to support it.  Reversing this process seems to produce cults/terrorists/inquisitions/etc.

I wonder sometimes if we are components of a divine permaculture, perhaps providing a free-range human-based Zone 3 prayer-fixing guild for the extra-dimensional beings some call Angels or Aliens.  I’d like to think such beings would honor lower-dimensional life the same way I honor less complex life on my Land (establishing regenerative practices that support my needs as well as others).

Interestingly enough, I haven’t found any correlation between how people behave and what they profess to believe.  I’ve met amazing and horrible people from basically all faiths – Christianity, Paganism, Islam, and Atheism.  Despite my issues with monotheistic creeds, the people who follow them tend to act in the same chaotic, ethically mixed ways of people closer to my own spiritual path.  This suggests that humanity’s issues are much bigger and more complex than what is crammed down their throats from the pulpit or manipulated by theoretical angelic/demonic forces.

Can’t say I’ve figured out how spirituality works yet… every time I get close, I get the feeling I don’t have the physics/math/relativity background to comprehend it.  But maybe that’s the point.

hau Josh, might I suggest that you welcome the emptiness as  you contemplate whatever spot you are in at that time.
Spirit requires no thought as it comes to you, sometimes afterwards your mind will experience an ah, ha moment, or not.
It is more about being than about engaging the mind.
Your statement of approaching from a place of personal power is spot on I think.

Redhawk

Here in the west, there seems to be two main myths on the world.  Understand that when I use the word "myth", I don't mean a lie, or half truth.  A myth is explaining something we don't fully understand by using metaphors and analogies.  Cataphasis helps us understand the universe and our place in it in a positive way.  We also have to take in to consideration the times in which they were told, and the social consciousness.

The first views the universe as a construct.   This was all made by an omnipresent being.  I believe that it was no accident that Jesus Christ was a carpenter.   God made us from clay and ribs, and breathed life into us.

The second perspective views the world in terms of mechanics.   This may have begun when Descartes and Newton entered the scene.   The universe is like a game of billiards.   Everything stupidly smashing around and we are merely helpless spectators.  

" I, a stranger and afraid, in a world I never made."  A E Housman

Both theories are from the point of view that we came into this world.

Eastern philosophy/religion views the world as a living organism. I don't  know for sure, but I believe that the Native American views are much the same.  As I've aged, I tend to view the world in this manner.  It's certainly more appealing to me than being smashed by (insert your favorite cataclysm here) or an eye in the sky keeping track of your every thought and action, although, if that's what works for you, then so be it.  The goal is the same for everyone.

So, it would only make sense to give back with my blood, sweat and fingernails since that is where I came from.

The hugelkultur burial mound is a wonderful idea that I hadn't thought of.  It is apropos to give back the one last great gift of my flesh, since I'm only borrowing it temporarily from its rightful owner.

Your mileage will vary.