Perennial Greens You've Grown

Great topic!

Ellendra Nauriel wrote:I'm fond of purslane. It works well as a lemon substitute in a lot of dishes.

I remember my first encounter with purslane. It was in 1970 and I finally had a garden, but near Vesper [WI], it was heavy clay and not fun at all to keep free of weeds.
One that grew particularly well was purslane. As I was picking them out of the alleys, I picked a piece an ate it raw. It was OK kind of piquant and lemony and I decided to grow it, so I put it in a pot.
My brand new hubby [at the time, we were newlywed] took a look at it and said: "Just don't tell the neighbors you are growing purslane. Its a real infection around here".
So I didn't grow it. Now, I moved further south in an area where they grow lots of potatoes. It's extremely sandy. Hubby #2 doesn't have a farmer's bone in his entire body and doesn't even know what it is, and there are a few timid ones, so maybe I'll try again.
Another one I'm planning on isn't exactly a perennial, rather a biennial, like carrots. It is witloof chicory, AKA Belgian endives.
You grow the root the first season [it has dandelion leaves]. In the fall, you harvest the taproot and put it standing in a bucket of sand. When you feel like it, you bring it out of the cold cellar and 'force it'. [Or,,, if you want some seeds, plant it in the garden]
A particularity of this plant is that even though it looks in the first season like a dandelion, when you force it [in the dark!!!] it makes a beautiful ogive or bullet shaped head of "lettuce". I have it with pickled beets. Yummy! and healthy too
I say "in the dark" because if you put it on the windowsill, it will turn green and be quite bitter.

I don't have a true perennial green that I like more than the collards, sprouting broccoli, Italian mustard and others that choke out the weeds here, and Mitsuba that rules the shade zones. Although it is the mildest tasting carrot family green I have ever eaten, I do like it. I also have a great French Parsley (flat leaf type) that is naturalizing, delicious, and biennial, so pretty close to perennial.  Most other perennial greens are a bit strong to my tastes

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:...
Another one I'm planning on isn't exactly a perennial, rather a biennial, like carrots. It is witloof chicory, AKA Belgian endives.
You grow the root the first season [it has dandelion leaves]. In the fall, you harvest the taproot and put it standing in a bucket of sand. When you feel like it, you bring it out of the cold cellar and 'force it'. [Or,,, if you want some seeds, plant it in the garden]
A particularity of this plant is that even though it looks in the first season like a dandelion, when you force it [in the dark!!!] it makes a beautiful ogive or bullet shaped head of "lettuce". I have it with pickled beets. Yummy! and healthy too
I say "in the dark" because if you put it on the windowsill, it will turn green and be quite bitter.

I love 'witlof'! But I don't plan to grow it myself. I can buy it easily (here in the Netherlands, like in Belgium, it's a common vegetable).

You probably don't want to plant it but maybe forage a bit if in an area that appears not to have been sprayed, kudzu.  The leaves are supposed to be edible and the roots are sweet but the seeds & pods are toxic.  Supposedly leaves are eaten a lot in Japan & the root is processed to obtain a sweet starch.  

Dale Nute wrote:You probably don't want to plant it but maybe forage a bit if in an area that appears not to have been sprayed, kudzu.  The leaves are supposed to be edible and the roots are sweet but the seeds & pods are toxic.  Supposedly leaves are eaten a lot in Japan & the root is processed to obtain a sweet starch.  

I am one to strongly encourage folks, if they can't get rid of something, to try and find some use for them. Then advertize and see people bring it to extinction [maybe]. For example, in the great lakes we have invasive mussels. I would love to have a few bushels to pound to a pulp and give to my chickens/ ducks in their pond.
So, with this in mind, perhaps we ought to encourage folks to forage Kudzu, if it is as edible as mentioned. It doesn't grow at all in central WI, but my understanding is that it has large, deep and contorted roots that make it impossible to get rid of.
It is extremely invasive. However, goats can forage it... Maybe goat growers could 'rent' their goats to clean up an area?
https://catawbalands.org/kudzu-eating-goats-arrive-at-our-seven-oaks-preserve/

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:I remember my first encounter with purslane. It was in 1970 and I finally had a garden, but near Vesper [WI], it was heavy clay and not fun at all to keep free of weeds.
One that grew particularly well was purslane. As I was picking them out of the alleys, I picked a piece an ate it raw. It was OK kind of piquant and lemony and I decided to grow it, so I put it in a pot.
My brand new hubby [at the time, we were newlywed] took a look at it and said: "Just don't tell the neighbors you are growing purslane. Its a real infection around here".
So I didn't grow it. Now, I moved further south in an area where they grow lots of potatoes. It's extremely sandy. Hubby #2 doesn't have a farmer's bone in his entire body and doesn't even know what it is, and there are a few timid ones, so maybe I'll try again.

If you do try again growing purslane as a crop, be aware that you don't have to transplant weedy varieties; there are cultivated varieties sold both as vegetables and as ornamentals.  Note that the latter are sometimes labeled as "portulaca" even though strictly speaking that name refers to a different species in the same genus: Portulaca grandiflora.  Those are also edible but not as tasty.  The purslane you want is Portulaca oleracea.  Look for flat, oval leaves as opposed to smaller cylindrical leaves.

Cultivars are bred for thicker, less spindly growth, and/or larger leaves, and/or more upright growth habit, and/or particular flower colors.  Often you will find the vegetable cultivars sold as "golden purslane," though in my experience an ornamental cultivar is just as palatable.  To zero in on a vegetable cultivar, search also for "verdolagas," the Spanish name for purslane, as it features in Mexican cooking.

Note that purslane is not actually a perennial green.  Perhaps in the tropics, but it won't survive anywhere with a winter as it is very frost tender.  I have read that it makes a good "permaculture perennial," which is to say an annual that enthusiastically self-seeds, but in my limited experience I have not observed this.  Perhaps I just harvested mine too much and didn't let any flowers develop long enough to set seed?

I stand corrected, Matthew. My purslane is indeed the more weedy one and technically it does die in the winter in my sandy zone 4b, but it makes lots of babies and next year...

Had anyone tried toona sinensis/fragrant spring tree?

I failed to get any going from seed but I've been wanting them ever since I read about them in the Toensmeier book.

I was hoping it could be a perennial tree green source in the way that moringa can't be in my zone.

My new favorite perennial green is sochan. Also called cutleaf coneflower (rudbeckia laciniata); sochan is the Cherokee name. It is my first edible green to emerge in the spring in New England. I use it like spinach in stir fry, soup, or on its own (I've never eaten it raw, and it occurs to me that I don't know if it can be eaten raw). It's a hardy perennial, and I use the greens early in the season. It puts up tall flower stalks that flower late in the summer, and the pollinators love the flowers. Big win all around!

Amy Maria wrote:My new favorite perennial green is sochan. Also called cutleaf coneflower (rudbeckia laciniata); sochan is the Cherokee name.

Good to know it has done so well for you.  I've not grown nor eaten it yet myself, but I know a nearby permie who swears by it.  I'm definitely planning to try it.

There are several different varieties originating from different parts of its immense native range - about half of North America - so I'd think it best to find yourself a local source as opposed to buying seed online.  For instance, I would want to make sure my seed came from the Southern Appalachian variety.

Sam Shade wrote:Had anyone tried toona sinensis/fragrant spring tree?  I failed to get any going from seed but I've been wanting them ever since I read about them in the Toensmeier book.  I was hoping it could be a perennial tree green source in the way that moringa can't be in my zone.

Yes, my understanding is that Moringa wants hot, hot, HOT weather.

And yes, I would heartily recommend Fragrant Spring Tree for you, Sam.  I live in a nearly identical climate, at least on paper, straddling the line between Zones 7 and 8, and it has done well for me.  I didn't plant from seed; I bought live transplants online, I forget where from.

I paraphrase from my own post in this same thread from three years ago, correcting a few details and updating with some new info I've learned since...

Matthew Nistico wrote:There are precious few woody perennials with edible leaves outside of the tropics, but this is one.  It grows vigorously in my climate, popping up new root suckers to form a thicket.  So far, it has proven immune from any serious pest problem.

Traditionally, the Chinese harvest young leaf shoots in early Spring for various culinary purposes.  These are indeed delicious, and I've found they also keep surprisingly well in the fridge.  I have also found it easy to harvest the mature leaves, which can be done from mid Spring all the way through late Fall, when the leaves wither and drop.  The mature leaves are definitely coarser in texture, but still palatable when finely julienned.  I add them to soups, stews, stir fries, fritters, and particularly to scrambled eggs; I can't imagine anyone wanting to eat them raw.  Their taste is very distinctive, similar to a slightly-garlicy leek.

Here is an example of a growing rosette of leaf stems, well past the "Spring shoots" stage:

Notice that each leaf has a very distinct, straight, central rib.  These are too stringy to eat.  The best approach, I've found, is to harvest the leaves when they are quite mature.  Grabbing the leaf at the base with your fingers, you can (with a little luck!) strip the two halves of the leaf right off, leaving the rib attached to the stem.  You can process a whole stem's worth of leaves in this manner in 20 seconds.  Any leaves that resist this procedure by pulling whole off of the stem - these will usually be the younger/smaller leaves - just toss and move on.  These trees grow new stems of leaves quite quickly, so over the course of a season there is no shortage of greenery to harvest!  Once you have a pile of leaf halves, slice them thin and cook as you like.  Or, as I've done successfully, slice them thin, dehydrate, seal them in a jar, and store for use in winter soups and stews.

A member of the mahogany family, Toona sinensis will grow into a large, canopy tree if you let it.  On my property, it grows quite fast, comparable to fast-growing mulberry (which I've recently learned also has edible leaves!).  The smaller of the trunks in this photo can be bent down to break off the leaf stems.  The larger of the trunks are overdue to be cut down, to encourage more root suckers.  It just occurs to me that I could also pollard them to encourage lower, lateral branching.  I've not yet tried that approach; perhaps I will.

Amy Maria wrote:My new favorite perennial green is sochan.

I heard about Sochan on permies a while ago and am trying to get it to establish here. I suspect it must be very tasty, since the slugs are grazing my plants to the ground! Maybe once it is established it will be OK, but no nibbles for me this year :(
I wasn't aware that the source could be important Matthew. I think I have a few different ones (including seed), but at the moment am wondering if any will survive.

Of my two main successes so far, both are courtesy of Nancy R here, one is intentional and a true perennial: tree kale; the other is a vigorously self-seeding annual for me, corn salad 'Vit'.

I am in the Midlands of England, so nominally zone 9a/8b with average last frost mid-May, first frost moved from mid-Oct to mid-Nov in the past 20 years.

Both are mild, tender, and nice wilted, thus popular with my household.

Sam Shade wrote:Had anyone tried toona sinensis/fragrant spring tree?

I failed to get any going from seed but I've been wanting them ever since I read about them in the Toensmeier book.

I was hoping it could be a perennial tree green source in the way that moringa can't be in my zone.

Is this the one?
https://peacefulheritage.com/shop/organic/arugula-tree-fragrant-spring-tree/?srsltid=AfmBOooYGXb2FuWDFfKMNXQGbIPbdNcyszUaNSU71dIsGcxhZ8dsBQx_
They say it is good in zones 6-7. Not for me, though: I'm in zone 4b

Nancy Reading wrote:I heard about Sochan on permies a while ago and am trying to get it to establish here. I suspect it must be very tasty, since the slugs are grazing my plants to the ground! Maybe once it is established it will be OK, but no nibbles for me this year :(
I wasn't aware that the source could be important Matthew. I think I have a few different ones (including seed), but at the moment am wondering if any will survive.

Oh no, that's a serious slug problem!  I don't typically experience such extreme slug pressure.  What do you do for slug control?  You might consider raising a duck if you don't already have one.  They are famous for munching slugs.

As for the importance of sourcing seed, that is contingent on your circumstances.  While I am not (yet) speaking from firsthand experience growing sochan, common sense says that, since multiple varieties of sochan exist, you'd want to get one that's native to a region most closely matching your local conditions.  Wikipedia names six sochan varieties and where each originates, so you might infer the climate preferences of each.  In my case, since I live in one of the regions where sochan is native, I'd want to ensure I get that specific variety.  This won't be difficult, since I know at least one local permie who grows it.

However, this may be less important to you for either of two reasons.  First, choosing between varieties ONLY matters IF a good selection of reliably labeled seeds are available on the international market.  Maybe there are, maybe there are not, I wouldn't know.  If there are only a few people selling generically labeled seed, then don't worry about it; buy whatever you can get and hope for the best.

This is a situation I've encountered in the past with other plants: I do lots of research so that I'm prepared to ask specific questions about the plants I'm buying, which questions become irrelevant when I realize I know more about those plants than the people selling them.  Oh well, what can you do?

The second reason is that sochan seems to thrive in a wide range of conditions all over North America.  Whereas in the Hebrides you have a mild climate devoid of extreme temperatures.  So, provided that you have suitable soil conditions, you may well assume that any sochan variety would grow for you.

Hi Mattthew, At the moment I rely on a critter balance, but introducing a new plant seems to disrupt things. Livestock is not on my plans. I'd like ducks, but I think my dogs would too (briefly!) and my husband isnt keen on the idea...maybe one day! So I hope for rove beetles, toads and wild birds to keep the balance. I'm protecting the plants at the moment with a cut off plant pot as a barrier. This can work pretty well, but I think the sochan is particularly tasty! I'm going to try some of my wool pellets and see if they help tip the balance for plant survival at least - they are wokring for my Hosta, which are also slug favourites.
Obviously sourcing in the UK is slightly trickier as Sochan is more likely to have been imported as a garden flower than a food plant....One of my plants at least came from a UK forets garden specialist so I hope it is reasonable tasty! I think the seeds are general garden plants so of unknown original provenance - I haven't actually sown them yet.

I've not seen Linden/Basswood mentioned; the leaves are pretty good, like most trees, the younger are better.

Rick Valley wrote:I've not seen Linden/Basswood mentioned; the leaves are pretty good, like most trees, the younger are better.

Hmmm. I have a couple of basswoods. How do you fix them?
[There are 2quite a few kinds of basswoods. I'm only familiar with the American linden[ tilia Americana] and the Little leaf linden [tilia Cordata].
Does that make a difference?"

Ac Baker wrote:... the other is a vigorously self-seeding annual for me, corn salad 'Vit'.

...

Please tell me how you do this with 'Vit'. Do you have a few plants to grow on, have flowers and seeds, so it will self-seed?
My problem is I harvest all of it, so there's nothing left to self-seed. And then I need to buy new seeds.

Rick Valley wrote:I've not seen Linden/Basswood mentioned; the leaves are pretty good, like most trees, the younger are better.

Yes, I know. The Linden trees growing here sometimes make young shoots at the base of the stem (trunk). Then it is easy to pick the fresh green leaves. I found out only those very young leaves are nice to eat as a salad. Leaves that are not so young are not nice to eat, they feel like paper in my mouth.

Matthew Nistico wrote:Note that purslane is not actually a perennial green.  Perhaps in the tropics, but it won't survive anywhere with a winter as it is very frost tender.  I have read that it makes a good "permaculture perennial," which is to say an annual that enthusiastically self-seeds, but in my limited experience I have not observed this.  Perhaps I just harvested mine too much and didn't let any flowers develop long enough to set seed?

That sounds like what I did. For my first few years of gardening in a suburban yard, I was considering it a weed; pulling a lot of it but letting some go because I don't mind a few small "weeds". It kept coming back. One year, I learned its value and started pulling more of it to eat. I think I did what you said, ate it before it could go to seed, because it barely came back the following year. Yet I thought "Hmm, I don't think I 'overharvested' because I did leave a lot", so as you said, I guess we have to let a good deal go to seed. I did that the following couple years and got more again. Last year, knowing I'd be moving this year, I collected some seed to make sure I have it for the future.  :-)
I also saved my lemon balm seed, and some flower seeds, including stealing some from a neighbor's "October daisies", lol