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Perennial Greens You've Grown

 
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Dimitrius,
Could you share your fabulous recipe for greens?

Thanks, I tire of my own recipes….

 
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Dimitrius Brown wrote:

Nathan Stephanson wrote:I'm pretty excited about Good King Henry.



What has you so excited?

We just put Swiss chard down for the first time this year here in Oakland. Super excited to be eating it fresh this summer.

...


Of course I don't know what excited Nathan. But for me the (only) importance of Good King Henry is: it's a real perennial! During winter it lives invisible underground, but from those same roots it returns every spring. And if you don't harvest enough every spring there will be more of it ...
Swiss chard overwinters, but then it will 'bolt' and start making flowers and seeds, and then it dies. So it's a 'biennial' plant, not a perennial.
 
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Sandra Goodstone wrote:Isn't Sorrel an invasive plant?



there are a few things that answer to that name. are you talking about a rumex species or an oxalis?
 
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Sandra Goodstone wrote:Isn't Sorrel an invasive plant?



There are many species called "sorrel".

These are quite weedy. The main concern with them is in animal feed as they are high in oxalic acid:
Rumex acetosella "sheep sorrel", this is the sorrel that causes the most commercial problems, by invading pastures. This is the only one I avoid introducing to my garden.
Oxalis corniculata "creeping woodsorrel" or "damn sorrel 😆"
Oxalis debilis "pink woodsorrel"

This is the common garden sorrel that you might buy commercially:
Rumex acetosa "garden sorrel"

These are ornamental species, these reseed a bit in my garden but not aggressively:
Rumex scutatus "silver shield sorrel" or "French sorrel"
Rumex sanguineus "bloody dock" or "red veined sorrel"

And almost everywhere in the world has at least one species of native sorrel. These are native to my area:
Oxalis oregana "Redwood sorrel"
Oxalis suksdorfii "Suksdorf woodsorrel"
Oxyria digyna "Alpine mountainsorrel"
Rumex paucifolius "Alpine sheep sorrel"

All of these are perennial and edible.
 
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Betsy, Do you have the botanical name for Brazilian Spinach???

Hi Jamie; it is called alternanthia SIssoo or Sissoo Spinach
 
pollinator
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One of the plants I'm learning about that I didn't see mentioned (may have missed it)  is Tradescantia Virginiana.  

It is vigorous, hardy, and looks like many parts are edible.   I have tons growing on my property (fairly common accidental garden plant all over my city).   I have not tried it yet, but I'm looking at different sources of which parts to eat,  when, and how to prepare.    Young leaves, and then flower buds seem to get lots of great reviews.  
 
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I'm trying two perennials from Experimental Farm Network-
Mitsuba Japanese Parsley
Flagpole Scallion
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Heather Staas wrote:
One of the plants I'm learning about that I didn't see mentioned (may have missed it)  is Tradescantia Virginiana.  

It is vigorous, hardy, and looks like many parts are edible.   I have tons growing on my property (fairly common accidental garden plant all over my city).   I have not tried it yet, but I'm looking at different sources of which parts to eat,  when, and how to prepare.    Young leaves, and then flower buds seem to get lots of great reviews.  


Yeas, Tradescantia (I don't know the exact species) is edible. It doesn't survive outdoors here (although ... winters are becoming less cold ...). But it's a well known house plant. I sometimes put some of the leaves in a salad. The taste is somewhat like purslane.
 
C Lundquist
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

Heather Staas wrote:
One of the plants I'm learning about that I didn't see mentioned (may have missed it)  is Tradescantia Virginiana.  

It is vigorous, hardy, and looks like many parts are edible.   I have tons growing on my property (fairly common accidental garden plant all over my city).   I have not tried it yet, but I'm looking at different sources of which parts to eat,  when, and how to prepare.    Young leaves, and then flower buds seem to get lots of great reviews.  


Yeas, Tradescantia (I don't know the exact species) is edible. It doesn't survive outdoors here (although ... winters are becoming less cold ...). But it's a well known house plant. I sometimes put some of the leaves in a salad. The taste is somewhat like purslane.



There are several species of Tradescantia. Some are tender houseplants, but Tradescantia virginiana is very hardy. Its range extends into Canada.
 
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Appreciate all the input re: perennial greens I wasn't aware of!

Perennial greens growing in my garden —
Perennial kale (several varieties)
Tree collards
NZ spinach
Nettles
Sculpit
Blood-veined sorrel

Also have self-seeding annuals —
Lamb's Quarters
Orach
Purslane
Parsley
Chard
 
Caroline Metzler
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Matthew Nistico wrote:@Joe Grand and Jamie Chevalier - I also live in South Carolina zone 8a, and I am likewise anxious to see how my new tree collards will perform in the winter, seeing that we are pushing the edge of what they are supposed to tolerate!

Actually, while I am in zone 8a, my property almost straddles the line between 8a and 7b.

I am cautiously optimistic.  But I also intend, as Joe indicated, to take a few cuttings early every winter to pot up and keep inside on a windowsill.  They will be my insurance, in case one or more of my tree collards bites the dust one particular winter.  The good thing is that propagating tree collards via tip cuttings seems fairly easy.



I'm in zone 7b/8a and my tree collards survived an unusually hard winter this year. I do have them in a high spot that doesn't gather the cold, mulch them, and on the worst night I throw some cloth over them. They're now setting tons of seed to give away!
 
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Oliver Huynh wrote:Hello,
Currently in the garden :
- Sorrel
- Wood sorrel
- Goutweed (lots of it, weekly harvest)
- Daubenton's collard
- Wild fennel
- Sweet cicely
- Nettles.

Goutweed is a horrible invasive here in the Southern Tier of NY, and I can't get rid of it. I have tried eating it, as I have seen many Korean's gather it but, even with boiling to make the flavor milder, I find it unappetizing.  Could you kindly share details of how you prepare it?
Sweet cicely is a lovely abundant herb in my garden but I have never eaten it, though I love the anise-like fragrance. I have only seen recipes candying it.  Could you also share how you prepare that?

thanks,
Freyda

 
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Sandra Goodstone wrote:Isn't Sorrel an invasive plant?



In the right circumstances, many plants can become invasive in a particular ecosystem, but I have never heard of Garden Sorrel becoming invasive. You may be thinking of Sheep Sorrel, a wild relative, that is considered a noxious weed in many places. It spreads by runners, and is very hard to remove--one of those things like couch grass where each piece makes a new plant. However, Garden Sorrel is a clumping perennial like its relative rhubarb. Sheep sorrel is edible, so people who already have it can use it, but I would never plant it. Garden Sorrel is widely grown both as a perennial and as an annual salad crop, with no problems. All three-- Rhubarb, Garden Sorrel, and Sheep Sorrel--are in the genus Rumex.

There are also several other plants that are called Sorrel in various localities because they share the sour flavor of true sorrel. Many are in the genus Oxalis (they contain oxalic acid) and have leaves that look a lot like clover. Some are native, like Redwood Sorrel from the northwest forests. Several are invasive. There is one with deep pink flowers that makes corms like crocus which I believe are edible. It is almost impossible to get rid of except by covering it with a barrier for a long time.  There is one with bright yellow flowers that is a widespread weed in California. The Oca from the Andes that many people plant as an edible tuber crop is Oxalis tuberosa.
 
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Here is an odd thing - at the weekend I found a nettle with hardly any stings.  Yes it is definitely a nettle of the Urtica genus, by its smell and the fact that it does sting very slightly as I found out when I sniffed it.  Now, I am aware of the Fen Nettle which is noted for not stinging, but that has much narrower leaves than the usual species.  And this stingless nettle that I have found has broader leaves.  Also, the patch next to it which is a similar height is starting to flower, whereas this one is nowhere near.

Here it is.  I have taken some up to my allotment and am curious to see if the flavour is as good as the stinging ones.
IMG_9626.JPG
[Thumbnail for IMG_9626.JPG]
 
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Hester Winterbourne wrote:Here is an odd thing - at the weekend I found a nettle with hardly any stings.  Yes it is definitely a nettle of the Urtica genus, by its smell and the fact that it does sting very slightly as I found out when I sniffed it.  Now, I am aware of the Fen Nettle which is noted for not stinging, but that has much narrower leaves than the usual species.  And this stingless nettle that I have found has broader leaves.  Also, the patch next to it which is a similar height is starting to flower, whereas this one is nowhere near.

Here it is.  I have taken some up to my allotment and am curious to see if the flavour is as good as the stinging ones.



Now here is a worthy challenge to all of the plant breeders out there: breed a stingless stinging nettle!  If you patent it, you could probably strike it rich and retire early.  It could be the next thornless blackberry : )
 
Jamie Chevalier
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I'm in zone 7b/8a and my tree collards survived an unusually hard winter this year. I do have them in a high spot that doesn't gather the cold, mulch them, and on the worst night I throw some cloth over them. They're now setting tons of seed to give away!



I'm curious about what kind of tree collards these are. The purple tree collards that I am familiar with and that have such a mild sweet flavor don't generally set seed. I know there are some that do set seed, and some of them are hardier. The flavor is not as sweet usually.

In the context of a perennial food system, setting seed is seldom a benefit. It takes the plant out of leaf production for a long time, and the progeny are completely unpredictable. It will cross with any collards, cabbage, brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, or kohrabi in the neighborhood, and most kales. Great for an experimental breeding program--though you would want to have quite a few plants to avoid inbreeding depression--but not so great for a reliable garden crop.

So, not to be a downer, but it's good to be aware that the progeny will probably not be just like the parent, and may not be perennial. The most reliable way to increase the plant you have and like is by taking cuttings.

Getting seed lines that are perennial is important work, but takes a bit of space, as the minimum number of parents for genetic stability is 50, after culling out the ones that aren't perennial, aren't tasty, or otherwise are not desirable. There are ways of recapturing strong genetics after breeding from just a few plants. John Navazio talks about it in his great book, , from Chelsea Green.
 
Jamie Chevalier
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Hester Winterbourne wrote:Here is an odd thing - at the weekend I found a nettle with hardly any stings.  Yes it is definitely a nettle of the Urtica genus, by its smell and the fact that it does sting very slightly as I found out when I sniffed it.  Now, I am aware of the Fen Nettle which is noted for not stinging, but that has much narrower leaves than the usual species.  And this stingless nettle that I have found has broader leaves.  Also, the patch next to it which is a similar height is starting to flower, whereas this one is nowhere near.

Here it is.  I have taken some up to my allotment and am curious to see if the flavour is as good as the stinging ones.



There is an annual nettle that is somewhat less stingy, Urtica urens as opposed to Urtica dioica. Looking at the photo again, I think that is what you have. https://www.opencircleseeds.com/listing/733784205/organic-annual-nettle    The leaves are shorter, and more rounded at the base than perennial nettle, with very prominent serrations.

You could see if yours lives a second year. What a great adaptation to propagate if it is a perennial!
 
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This is the "path" between two terraced beds.
I think these mustard greens came from a feed store and were sold as a crop for deer plots.
They are quite spicy but heat and butter tame that somewhat.
IMG_20220526_121315.jpg
Spicy greens, already bolting
Spicy greens, already bolting
 
Matthew Nistico
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William Bronson wrote:They are quite spicy but heat and butter tame that somewhat.



Really?!  Do you mean "heat" in the frying pan?  Because if you were referring to the weather, that is the opposite of my experience.  I also have feed-store wild mustard self-seeding in my food forest.  I spread seed years ago for soil improvement, and it has resulted in expanding patches of mustard greens that I totally enjoy eating every year - but only during the cold months.  Once the weather turns hotter, so do the mustard greens.  By the time they are completely bolted, as in your photo, I have given up the harvest for the year.
 
Hester Winterbourne
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Jamie Chevalier wrote:

Hester Winterbourne wrote:Here is an odd thing - at the weekend I found a nettle with hardly any stings.  Yes it is definitely a nettle of the Urtica genus, by its smell and the fact that it does sting very slightly as I found out when I sniffed it.  Now, I am aware of the Fen Nettle which is noted for not stinging, but that has much narrower leaves than the usual species.  And this stingless nettle that I have found has broader leaves.  Also, the patch next to it which is a similar height is starting to flower, whereas this one is nowhere near.

Here it is.  I have taken some up to my allotment and am curious to see if the flavour is as good as the stinging ones.



There is an annual nettle that is somewhat less stingy, Urtica urens as opposed to Urtica dioica. Looking at the photo again, I think that is what you have. https://www.opencircleseeds.com/listing/733784205/organic-annual-nettle    The leaves are shorter, and more rounded at the base than perennial nettle, with very prominent serrations.

You could see if yours lives a second year. What a great adaptation to propagate if it is a perennial!



My understanding by reputation of Urtica urens is that it is more stingy, not less.  Also it is quite small and this is a large thing, but of course that wasn't clear in the photo.  It has a strong running rhizome and too big/ the wrong situation to have grown from seed this year.  The council have now strimmed the original patch so I'm glad I transplanted some!
 
William Bronson
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Matthew, I totally meant the heat of cooking.
Right now, these greens are horseradish hot, and I struggle to enjoy them!
Still, I enjoy their no worries fecund nature.
I have been thinking they would be good in sour cream...
 
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Does anyone have any unique ways of using purslane, other than a green salad or steamed like spinach? Thank you!
 
Matthew Nistico
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Alia Sunder wrote:Does anyone have any unique ways of using purslane, other than a green salad or steamed like spinach? Thank you!


Yes!  One of my favorite purslane dishes is a simple Turkish salad.  Couldn't get much more simple: it is just raw purslane smothered in a garlicky yogurt sauce.  I don't maintain a "recipe," but just assemble it by feel.

In a small bowl, stir together a good bunch of Greek yogurt with minced garlic, salt, and either fresh-ground black pepper or red pepper flakes, as you prefer.  Use more or less garlic according to your taste.  I use a lot.  Stir in olive oil until it reaches a consistency that appeals to you.  I would recommend not too runny, but a lot less stiff than straight strained yogurt.  Pour over the rinsed purslane sprigs and enjoy the juxtaposed textures of crisp, crunchy purslane and creamy yogurt sauce!  You want enough sauce to really coat the purslane.
 
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Matthew Nistico
Thank you for sharing the "recipe" for this salad. We love garlic and yogurt and this combination sounds delicious! I'm usually pretty creative with food, but haven't gotten any sparks of creativity with purslane. I thought about battering some of the larger specimens and deep frying them, but haven't attempted it yet, as I rarely deep fry, but I'm gonna have to give it a try. All suggestions will be appreciated!
 
Heather Staas
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Purslane is really nice addition to stir fry too!
 
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I'm zone 3 can push to zone 4/5 against structures. Red orach, strawberry spinach, purslane all come back for me without my having to touch them.
 
Jamie Chevalier
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A quick raw pickle is a nice thing to have in the fridge for summer. The simplest is to add purslane leaves or tips to the leftover juice from a jar of store-bought pickles (or cocktail olives)
You can lightly salt them for a naturally fermented pickle. Or make up your own brine and chill them in it. Any of these make a nice free condiment or addition to sandwiches, etc. If you are looking for more exact recipes, I have seen recipes for salted and pickled purslane online.

I use fresh purslane as a crunchy summer substitute for lettuce in tacos, felafel, Greek pita sandwiches, etc etc.

It is an excellent addition to tuna salad--a better flavor pairing with it than lettuce or celery, actually.

With it's slightly mucilaginous texture and small size (no cutting and dicing required) purslane is a great soup ingredient, adding body to the broth as well as mildly-tart flavor . As Carol Deppe says, no gardener is going to get the full value from their garden unless they know how to make homemade soups.
 
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Joe Grand wrote:Tell me if any of these are perennials:
Good old Henry-yes
Vineland Hardy Prickly Pears-yes
Purple Shiso /Perilla?
Red Fire Orach?
Ruby Red Swiss Chard?
I am planting in zone 8a, I have seeds, thanks.



Perilla? Is this the one that tastes like sesame seeds? Is it sesame plant? I don’t think I can find the seeds of it in the US.
 
C Lundquist
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Joe Grand wrote:Tell me if any of these are perennials:


Good old Henry-Good King Henry-yes
Vineland Hardy Prickly Pears-yes
Purple Shiso /Perilla - perennial in the tropics, annual in zone 8
Red Fire Orach- no
Ruby Red Swiss Chard-no
 
C Lundquist
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Rita Marquez wrote:
Perilla? Is this the one that tastes like sesame seeds? Is it sesame plant? I don’t think I can find the seeds of it in the US.



Not the same thing. If you want to grow sesame, however, you can sow the seeds from the grocery store, just get raw, non-roasted ones. Sesame is annual.
 
Rita Marquez
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C Lundquist wrote:

Rita Marquez wrote:
Perilla? Is this the one that tastes like sesame seeds? Is it sesame plant? I don’t think I can find the seeds of it in the US.



Not the same thing. If you want to grow sesame, however, you can sow the seeds from the grocery store, just get raw, non-roasted ones. Sesame is annual.



Where do you get your perilla seeds? I thought perilla was the same thing as sesame because of the flavor. I bought a package at an Asian market and that was how it tasted to me.
 
C Lundquist
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Rita Marquez wrote:

C Lundquist wrote:

Rita Marquez wrote:
Perilla? Is this the one that tastes like sesame seeds? Is it sesame plant? I don’t think I can find the seeds of it in the US.



Not the same thing. If you want to grow sesame, however, you can sow the seeds from the grocery store, just get raw, non-roasted ones. Sesame is annual.



Where do you get your perilla seeds? I thought perilla was the same thing as sesame because of the flavor. I bought a package at an Asian market and that was how it tasted to me.



Just from the same seed company I get other veggies seeds from. A lot of companies carry it. For instance, https://territorialseed.com/collections/types?q=perilla
 
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Abe Coley wrote:two good ones unmentioned as of yet: elm samarras and gingko leaves.

The inner pith of quack grass root runners is edible, and so far from the few times I've tried it it's pretty good as far as grass-flavored starchy pastes go.



As far as grass flavored starchy pastes go...

That does it, I’m sold! :)
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Oh! That reminds me when the seeds of the Siberian elm are a bright lime green you can strip them off the branch and they are very good. As the seed in the center develops it gets nutty but as that whole thing ages the nice crisp greens go from sweet to kind of dry, And ever coarser. I never eat them unless I know for sure the conditions of growth for that elm tree.
 
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I'm preparing to grow more perennial veggies. Just read scarlet runner beans are perennial in zones 7-11. Has anyone in the coastal pacific northwest had scarlet runners produce for more than one year? I think I'm in zone 7b/8 so I have some hope ...
 
C Lundquist
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Barbara Kochan wrote:I'm preparing to grow more perennial veggies. Just read scarlet runner beans are perennial in zones 7-11. Has anyone in the coastal pacific northwest had scarlet runners produce for more than one year? I think I'm in zone 7b/8 so I have some hope ...



I'm in Seattle, zone 8b. I have grown scarlet runners, but they weren't perennial for me. They did partially overwinter one year when we had an exceptionally mild winter, but that was the exception. Winters are so unpredictable here, some years we have no snow and only mild freeze, other years we have 2 feet of snow. So runner beans are very unreliable here. You could try digging them up and overwintering the roots in a garage or shed, like some people do for dahlias. I haven't tried that, though I have overwintered eggplants and peppers indoors. I would say it's hardy to zone 9 myself.

If you do plant it, don't plant it right next to garden beans. Even though they are different species, they will cross if planted too close. My purple speckled black beans are a testament to that...

For a perennial legume, you could look into Siberian Peashrub (Caragana arborescens) which is a hardy shrub that has lentil like seeds. Mine aren't big enough to produce yet so I don't have personal experience, but I have high hopes for it. 🙂
 
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I am learning how to garden for food (and eat the vegetables I grow). I haven't learned yet to enjoy many vegetables especially with strong flavors. There  are two "weeds" in my yard I very much like to eat. Garlic mustard I eat fresh in sandwiches with lunch meat. Or it makes really good pesto. And I've made a nettle soup which is luxurious beyond description. It could be served in a fine restaurant. Tastes like rain in May and very nutritious.
 
Barbara Kochan
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Joe (or another), I'd love the nettle soup recipe. Do you have a link for that? Thank you
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Yes, I second the request for a nettle soup recipe that tastes like spring rain!
 
Joe Uicker
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I found a video on YouTube and loosely followed it. The main ingredients were nettles, onions, sour cream and vegetable stock. I avoided my usual inclination to overseason food so the flavors of simple ingredients could shine. Just try a simple recipe.
 
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