paul's patreon stuff got his videos and podcasts running again!

I confess that when I started fiddling with patreon, I kinda had this feeling of ....  tolerance?  I would tolerate patreon.   It would be yet another thing that I would try, but it would be weak.  As the years have passed, the patreon stuff has grown very slowly.  

And then a few weeks ago I had a powerful feeling.   I felt a sort of mix of excitement and gratitude.   I was excited about the upcoming podcast projects, and had huge enthusiasm for future youtube projects.   And a lot of my time was spent on planning and creating and ...  STUFF!  

And the bubble popped.  

It was a glitch in patreon.  

But the feeling I had was real.  

It was a good feeling.

I want that feeling back.  Gimmie.

And then I poked around on patreon a bit.  There are a lot of bits and bobs within the patreon junk I had not played with before.   I looked at a report that showed me how much people have given me so far.  

Here are my top 10 all time patreon supprters:

   Dr. Hugh Gill Kultur
   Jennifer Schwegler
   Doug Barth
   Bill Crim
   Kerry JustTooLazy
   Wade Luger
   Suleiman, Karrie, and Sasquatch
   anonymous
   Jocelyn Campbell jocelyncampbell.com
   havokeachday  https://www.instagram.com/havokeachday/

As mentioned above, I am so glad to have received such direct support, that I sent all three of them a gift.   At the moment, I feel like sending them all plenty more gifts.   We'll see how this goes.   I am looking at the top 20 on this list and gearing up to send out more gifts.  

This isn't about obligations and stuff.  This isn't a guarantee - I don't want anybody signing up for patreon and commanding a new gift.  This is just something where i did a bit of an experiment on a lark and these people threw actual coin behind me.  Through thick and thin, good times and bad.   How cool.   I'm just feeling some gratitude stuff.   I like this feeling.

These people said "I don't know what is coming out next, but i know i will like it THIS much."   That's some real trust.  


I am going to try to morph my patreon stuff.   Here are my ideas so far:

   create a new patreon account for vids
       - simplify rewards
   give loads of e-gifts to the $100 and up supporters
   arrange for in-video mention of top supporters
   mention top supporters in podcast
   read Chris Sugg email into podcast
   to thread:  what constitutes an article?
       - announce this to patreon peeps and plotskateers
       - article on richsoil?  thread?   article on some other big site?  magazine?
       - maybe a big bump to get article into some other on-line place?
   try a zoom show with jocelyn and I - and the podcast patreon peeps can type
       - let the highest dollar contributor pick the date and time
   try a youtube live show with the video patreon peeps
       - let the highest dollar contributor pick the date and time
   for pod people
       - let the top 5 suggest one topic each
   for youtube people
       - let the top 5 suggest one topic each
   make it easier for new patrons to get the initial goodies?
   make a patreon intro video for the podcast page
   make a patreon intro video for the video page


What might be some other ideas?

Once there are two patreon pages, what should the rewards be?


Here is the Chris Sugg message:

Ha! Feel free to use my name however you like. Your podcasts have changed my life. I moved from an apartment to 5 acres with multiple animal and plant systems managed through permaculture principles.

I love your videos and podcasts! And I’ve converted three people to cast iron via your article.

I’ve supported all your kickstarters for the past 3 years, bought podcast gobs (I’ve listened to them all twice by the way), and I’m happy to support you on Patreon too.

Please keep up what you are doing. Because of you, I am sharing Permaculture through action with my family, friends, and neighbors.

P.S. Don’t worry about repeating your podcast content. There is so much to take in it is great to get reminders and inspiration from what you are doing/thinking about today.

I know you are very busy with the empire so don’t feel obliged to respond to this note or (take any of my advice). 🙂

All the best,
Chris Sugg (Not afraid of Spideman)

paul wheaton wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:I just sent a gift-gift to the top 10 all time patreon contributors.  

I sent each person 5 gift codes for the World Domination Gardening 3-DVD set.   They can give all five to friends, or maybe keep one for themselves.  

So: "gift-gift".

I am hoping to get some feedback.  Did anybody exercise the gift?  Did it all work okay?  Did any of you give them out?  

I was thinking of doing another round of this, but in a slightly different way.   Devaka even made a slight change to the software for me.  

I now sent a bunch of patreon peeps (with all time contributions of $100 or more) three gift links.  One person reported receiving the links.   Anybody tried them?

Hi, Paul!
I may not be quite understanding the whole Patreon thing, but I'd like to be able to contribute at regular intervals of time, rather than with each new article. I'm on a limited monthly budget, and can't work with say... 2 articles, this month, then half a dozen, next month. I need to stick with a set, consistent contribution, whether you do 10 or 0, but can't find that type of option. If it's not there yet, would you consider arranging it?

Its there. You state how many you want to do per month and how much for each.

If you want $10 a month to go his way you can specify a max of 2 at $5 each or a max of 1 at $10 each. Both will get him the $10.

I suppose you can edit it monthly for more or less.

I'm tempted to just buy a $30 "PIE" each year to keep it simple.  That's like $2.50 per month.

Hey Carla/Rudy, regardless of the option you first pick, the next screen will let you set a limit per month as well, so if you pick $1 or $3 per artifact, you can then say $X max per month. So you could even pick custom, set it to your monthly max per artifact, and then set the monthly cap to that same amount. So whether Paul releases 1 artifact or 20, you will send him your target amount that way.

Patreon's advantage seems to be the crowd swell. Like in Kickstarter, I want to support winners which then attracts more support.

A disadvantage is the fee. Patreon said they were trying to make it less of a bite on small pledges, but it fails if you only support one creator at $2/m.
For those supporters, I suggest PIE.

The Glitch Paul referred to is a new disadvantage. If they can give him reliable income estimates then I'll pledge at $3 once a month.

Actually, I'll do it now.  *edit* Done.

PIE is something that supports this community.  It covers the server bill, it's a way to say "thank you" to somebody that wrote an exceptionally good post, and most of all, I like the ability to give out TWO thumbs up (and sometimes a thumbs down).   Frankly, I am seriously addicted to the extra features in PIE.

My patreon stuff is largely about "should i post a free video to youtube, or work on other projects?"  At this time there are serious deterrants to posting videos and podcasts.  And this recent month told me that that is what I WANT to do, but I work on other things because I am trying to carve a path to "building a permaculture disneyland" by leveraging community.  And there are other paths that seem more effective.   Last month proved to me that patreon can be both.   But I have to carve out the time to do patreon correctly.  

Frankly, the thing that is critically important to me is that if I produce ZERO in a month, then I receive ZERO from patreon that month.   That makes the whole patreon thing a non-obligation.  

 

Last month's glitch reminded me of a business arrangement I had about ten years ago with a person within a company.   The company made an excellent product that i used every day.   All of the coderanch staff got a copy of the product and they all appreciated the product.   I was so grateful in the face of this generosity that we did all sorts of clever things to promote the company and the product.   Which led to further generosity from the company, which led to further generosity from us and so on, and so on ....   until that person no longer worked for the company.  The new person wanted to make official deals and ...  this period of delicious snowballed generosity ended.  

So, during the glitch, that feeling came back.   Only it was even bigger because it was just for me - as opposed to our community.   What a wonderful and rare feeling.   And I started to get ideas about how I wanted to express my gratitude ...  


When I had that relationship with that guy at that company, it always reminded me of this bit:

Rudy Valvano wrote:A disadvantage is the fee.

The upside is that when the numbers get big enough, other people learn about permaculture and my empire.   Other permies get the idea that they can do this too.  It infects brains in multiple ways!

paul wheaton wrote:Frankly, the thing that is critically important to me is that if I produce ZERO in a month, then I receive ZERO from patreon that month.   That makes the whole patreon thing a non-obligation.  

 

And there, sir, is my issue. This may sound odd, but, I've been around the block a time or two, and know that a. Your artifacts take a great deal of time, commitment, and effort, as well as (even more) imagination & knowledge; b. Sometimes, life happens, and be it health issues, emergencies, last minute technical difficulties, or writers' block, stuff happens, that can keep those artifacts from 'timely' publication; c. Life goes on, and funds are needed, regardless of what may have happened(in b.); d. If those funds aren't reliably available, in the case of b., publication can come to a screeching, skidding halt, and the expense of pulling it all back together can derail a project, indefinitely; & e. You still have life happening, throughout the course of all the above.

This is why I want to set an amount that gets to you, whether you produce 0 or 10 artifacts per month. If the PIE system is the way to go, to accomplish that goal, then I'll be eating & serving PIE!

Carla Burke wrote:This is why I want to set an amount that gets to you, whether you produce 0 or 10 artifacts per month. If the PIE system is the way to go, to accomplish that goal, then I'll be eating & serving PIE!

I hope that if you see a really great post, you will give that person a piece of pie.

As i travel the internet, it seems that really monstrous people are rewarded.  They fill a site with hate and vitrol and trolling and get love in return.  And the good, decent, kind people get the hate.  And then they are told to suck it up because that's the way the internet is.  

I like our system of apples, likes and pie.   I like that good, decnet, kind people are rewarded and held up as lovely.  While the hate and vitrol and trolling become invisible - thanks to powerful moderating.

I like the idea that PIE is about our community.  

One time, when i was 14, I went to help my grandma get her coal in for the winter.   She made me three pies.  I was covered in coal soot and i ate one huge piece from each pie.   What a lovely day.

A good community needs nurturing.

When i am unable or don't want to create one month, i am glad that i don't have an obligation hovering over me.

for all of the people i have sent gifts ...   this is some new tech ...   is it working okay?

paul wheaton wrote:for all of the people i have sent gifts ...   this is some new tech ...   is it working okay?

I received an email on 9Aug with the 5 WDG gift links.  I've not tried them yet. I just tried the first link, and it took me to a thread with 3 embedded players, which work!  I'll have to send those other 4 links out as gifts!  (I also have the physical DVDs.)

paul wheaton wrote:I now sent a bunch of patreon peeps (with all time contributions of $100 or more) three gift links.  One person reported receiving the links.   Anybody tried them?

I cannot find any evidence of receiving this.  I checked both email (incl spam) and patreon website, but I couldn't find anything.

So I guess I need to clarify a bit ....

For everybody that has supported my patreon at $100 or more, i sent the spiffy new gift links.  At least 3.   And I sent more than 3 to the top 10.

So, Kerry, you are part of th top 10.  So you got 5 links.  

Sounds like at least 1 is working - good!

paul wheaton wrote:

Jason Smith is wading through the videos and editing them.  I am giving him a healthy slice of the patreon income in exchange for his work.   But he can just help a little.  

I would really like to get somebody that lives here full time:

https://permies.com/t/64554/wanted-full-time-videographer

How does the Patreon sharing aspect work, to avoid the "obligation is poison " aspect of paying people?

I've got a guy who produces HOURS of YouTube content, filming seminars he teaches. He uploads the entire video file, including 30 minute+ segments where the students split into groups and the camera microphone doesn't pick up anything distinguishable, and the camera lens can only see the empty side of the room, or maybe the back of someone's T-shirt.

I told him that editing the videos would make them use less of my data plan, and he agrees, but has no time or interest in doing it himself.

If he does the filming and I do the editing, does Patreon allow us to set a split payment, maybe by percentage?

Patreon is for one person.  If you are going to do a split, then one person receives coin and then sends a split to the other.

paul wheaton wrote:

There is a per-podcast expense for processing and stuff.

Can you elaborate? If I were to start a podcast, what expenses would I have?

Also, in the recent podcasts, you've mentioned several projects that run in the red. From memory, I think you mentioned the podcasts, gapper program, boots program, RMH innovators event and/or PDC/ATC/Schmoozaroo...

Not to pry, but what projects do you have in the black that keep all these other projects afloat?

Chad Sentman wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:There is a per-podcast expense for processing and stuff.

Can you elaborate? If I were to start a podcast, what expenses would I have?

Currently, I pay adrien to receive the raw podcast files, edit them and do a collection of other magic things (normalizing is super important when a loud git like me is talking to a lovely person like jocelyn) (adrien also has a recipe for making the file size small without everybody sounding like robots).  Then adrien uploads it to the exactly right place, gives a link to the person that will write a wonderful description and gives a link to me to pass on to the patreon peeps for early access.   Later, adrien posts all sorts of links and description stuff to richsoil and creates a new thread to permies and sends me an email to say it is all ready, so i can share it with the patreon peeps as a public thing.  Adrien also posts links to the permies threads in lots of places including a mention as fodder for the dailyish email.  

The best part is that adrien is a pro.  It is all done perfectly every time.  Over and over.  For years.  He has done such a good job for such a long time that i cannot remember most of the details.  

Also, in the recent podcasts, you've mentioned several projects that run in the red. From memory, I think you mentioned the podcasts, gapper program, boots program, RMH innovators event and/or PDC/ATC/Schmoozaroo...

Not to pry, but what projects do you have in the black that keep all these other projects afloat?

I have residual income streams and the occasional kickstarter.  

The division begins ....

Here is my first stab at creating two patreon pages.  The original patreon page will be changed to become the podcast page.   And this new page is for videos.  Please give me feedback!


https://www.patreon.com/pwvids

Jocelyn and i went out and harvested some precious Sepp Holzer grain.   I took a little bit of video while harvesting.   This grain grows to 8.5 feet tall and is a crazy fast soil builder.   Plus an edible grain.  Excellent for chickens to self harvest through the winter.  I grew some on a giant, flat rock surface with a bit of powdery sawdust - pretty impossible for almost anything to grow and the stuff still grew to 4 feet tall.   I have just a little bit of this, but I got the idea in my head that I might put together a christmas gift for my top 100 patreon supporters.  Maybe several of the biggest seed heads to my top 12 supporters.  Lots of maybes in here so it isn't an obligation thing, but more of a gratitude thing.

I think i got the #1 spot. Cool.

wayne fajkus wrote:I think i got the #1 spot. Cool.

Any thoughts about the new page?  

Any changes?  Any new "tiers".   I left the "goals" thing blank.  

Tracy made the image at the top.

I didnt read it cause it was too long. I'm not sure what % of the population "I" am. If its large, it is worth noting.

wayne fajkus wrote:I didnt read it cause it was too long. I'm not sure what % of the population "I" am. If its large, it is worth noting.

I mixed in some of my favorite videos to make it .... ummm ....  better?

I am now adding in freebies for all patrons, and tagging them so they will be easy to find.  

I am considering adding some more freebie videos.

Well, I did read the whole thing, and I like it, but....  I'm amazed, like, every day at my corporate job the resistance people have to reading anything.  One person recently refused to read/review the documentation that they had asked me to produce.  So, I think it might help to add a "tl;dr" graph at the top.

It could be extracts of the long text, like

My videos are mostly about homesteading and permaculture stuff.   I try to make shorter videos that introduce a topic or point-of-view that is not yet on youtube.

I have oodles of raw video that I don't have time to edit.  Patreon sponsors let me pay some folks to help out.  The more folks feed my Patreon, the more videos I am able to crank out!

An alternative might be to bold (or color, or otherwise call out) these sentences in the big text.  I actually saw the aforementioned co-worker scroll thru a big document and select 2 irrelevant (but statistically rare) heading words to summarize the whole document in their powerpoint bullet.  So maybe just bolding would work, but I'm not sure.

P.S.  Typo:  "fee" -> "feed" in first paragraph.

I came up with what I think is an excellent idea for a devious plot.  So now this is what I am doing.

Once I get to 100 patrons on my new patreon thing I will send ALL patrons 2 gift codes for "Building a Cob Style Rocket Mass Heater" (HD Streaming).  So for those people that already have it, they can give them both away.   And for people that don't have it, they can use one for themselves and give the other one away.  

And the top 12 patrons will get 12 gift codes.  

Full deets on the video: https://richsoil.com/wood-heat.jsp

I made a whole bunch of changes to the old patreon page so that it is more podcast focused.

So I signed up for the videos, trying to sign up for podcasts and it said I was signed up already.  Looked like maybe that was from before when it wasn’t split out.

Anyway to tell if people are still signed up from before and then added video?  I do want to support both

M Johnson wrote:So I signed up for the videos

I see you!

trying to sign up for podcasts and it said I was signed up already.  Looked like maybe that was from before when it wasn’t split out.

Anyway to tell if people are still signed up from before and then added video?  I do want to support both

I see you in both.   You look like a squirrel.

Ha! I didn’t know they defaulted the picture.  I’m now our golden retriever

I put a lot of hours into the upgrades.

I then made "the offer" which is $30 of stuff for maybe $1.  

I kinda thought that the response would be "now paul is doing it right!"  so we get a hundred folks in a day or two and all is right as rain.  

I'm not sure if there is still a lot more for me to do or if patreon just isn't a good fit for me.

 

It will happen organically. Enticing right after the kickstarter may be information overload cause those people are still sorting and watching the candy. I am 12 hours into 177 hours of the pdc/atc and am at the point of exhaustion fitting it in with normal duties. Its priority over other vids. Its worth it. Just gonna take a while.

In Paul Wheaton voice:

NO. NO. NO.  NOT MORE CAAAAAAAAANNNDDIIIE!

:)  

Understood.    A bit too much all at once.  

Another possible perspective on all this:  suppose it takes a month or two to get to 100 supporters of the new patreon.  Then people would be getting handfuls of gift codes just in time for the holidays.

I would suspect both are coming from the same pool of people. Which is why youtube can be so beneficial. Its a new, unexposed pool of peeps to draw from. They watch, they like, they join. Its simple but slow. But they gotta know patreon exists without clicking on the description, cause peeps dont click on it.

You are unique in that you have paid content.  What i am describing is 99%(random guess) of patreon channels. Simple may not be simple in your case.

This is looking much better! I think the reduced amount of words is at least 10x better and the simplified setup even more so.

A couple of quick things that I noticed:

- They're not linked in your signature anymore. I'm not even sure if they're obviously linked here in this thread

Paul's Podcast Patreon
Paul's Video Patreon

- I feel like the video on your video's patreon is the wrong selection. It gives the impression that videos will be super serious things like presentations at conferences.  It's also super long! I think you should think like a Kickstarter video here. Something short and sweet that's closer to the hugel videos you put out recently. Heck, even that one would be a better choice from my perspective. The best would be something like a trailer of your recent videos with a description of what you're doing… but that's a lot of work.

Nothing you can do, but im pulling my hair out. I had credit fraud so my card got replaced. I added the new card. I get an email saying the card got declined, but its showing by the old card. So i click to add new card. It says it already exists. I see no method to make it the primary. So i try to cancel the podcast acct so it doesnt try to charge it. Cant find a way to cancel.

So i get the app, thinking this may give me more options than clicking the email link. I get the app. I try to log in. Password not correct. I click "forgot password". It sends me an email -click here to reset password. I click, it takes me to same spot, logged in. I look at everything, cant find any method to reset password. I go back to app. I'm not logged in.

Uuggg.

so i think what you are saying is that the patreon site is falling apart at the seams?

Im not smart enuff, but my wife is. It got sorted.

You cant change payment method, you "transfer membership". Wtf.

When I got the email today about some new podcasts, it reminded me of another thing: no feed! All the patreon podcats I subscribe to give patreons a special feed for the early access podcasts so I can just subscribe in Castro and the podcasts show up on my phone. https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213557023-How-do-I-enable-audio-RSS-for-my-patrons-