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!!!!!! Biochar space heater?

 
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I found this while looking for a way to heat the cabin in my Kleingarten/alllotment:  http://feuerland24.com/epages/457a880b-bdb4-4de2-8e5f-50816b736abf.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/457a880b-bdb4-4de2-8e5f-50816b736abf/Products/305 (In German but Google Translate should help)

It's a... pyrolyzing pellet stove?  Feed it pellets, heat the room, and get back biochar?  It sounds too good to be true, aside from the price.  It vents out to the outside, but is it likely to kill me with CO?  Some other interesting pyrolyzed gases?  

Can anyone advise on the viability of this?  Many thanks in advance.  (Also, please move this if this isn't the right forum.)
 
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From the description it seems to be some sort of really well-engineered TLUD. Way cool. I wonder how much I'd have to cough up in freight and customs to get one....
 
Morfydd St. Clair
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To NZ?  

They might send just the guts of the TLUD - that might be cheaper and then you could build the frame around it.

I have used their contact form to ask 1) if it can burn other things, like wood chips and 2) what the effect of burning just 2kg instead of the recommended 4kg would be.  (My cabin is very very small and airtight.)  I'll update if they get back to me.
 
Phil Stevens
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It looks really well designed and I don't think you'd be at any risk from CO inside your cabin as long as the flue is well connected. I'm very curious to know what they say about alternative fuels, such as wood chip, nut shells, corn cobs or stalks.
 
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I saw a homemade version of this a long, long time ago.

It used a 55 gallon drum, some pipe, and chimney flue to work, but it burned sawdust. Its intended purpose was to heat a woodworking shed, and did that well enough using sawdust, and would burn 3-5 days per charge. When they got done they said they had charcoal, but this was years and years ago, and I never realized what charcoal could be used for then.
 
Phil Stevens
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Travis, I just realised this thing could probably burn corn ;-)
 
Travis Johnson
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Phil Stevens wrote:Travis, I just realised this thing could probably burn corn ;-)




Or sunflower seeds.
 
pollinator
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Oh, I think I love that little thing. Imagine the potential for tiny-house-sized spaces! It's got so much impact for such a tiny footprint!

Also, think about generating about four kilos of good quality char every seven hours of heating. That's a metric shit tonne of biochar every heating season (okay, maybe a little less than a metric shit tonne, I'm rounding up)!

This idea never actually occurred to me, and I'm flabbergasted. I mean, I know it's more efficient from the perspective of generating heat to do so in an RMH environment, where every little scrap of fuel is combusted at high temperatures and trapped in mass, but I am enamoured by the idea that I could provide clean wood heat and generate biochar in quantity as a result, and do so every winter.

So envision an RMH that uses these principles. How would that best be accomplished? Would adapting the physics of a kon-tiki cone-style setup work, whereby the fuel pile in the burn chamber falls through a grate into an oxygen-starved holding tray beneath when it reaches a certain particle size, say quarter inch or so?

Or would it be better to essentially have a retort atop the riser, feeding its wood gas and combustible liquid components back down into the burn tunnel?

Great find, Morfydd. I wonder how expensive it would be to ship here. My landlord might be interested. We have electric baseboard heat in the third-floor apartment of a converted old house. It gets cold, or it gets expensive, and there are only so many sweaters you can wear (which don't do anything for the temperature of one's nose, let me tell you).

-CK
 
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How can I engage Google Translate on my phone?
 
Phil Stevens
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Sue, here is a shameless cut and paste of the translated website text for you:

This pellet stove does not work like a conventional device, the pyrolysis combustion is something completely unique. You have to imagine this, that you have a fixed amount of pellets 2-5kg (ideally 4kg in this device), in the pellet tank, this is ignited by hand, for example, with a grill lighter and immediately closes the device (hermetically sealed without adjusting the air Etc.). After within 3-8 minutes the pellets exceed a necessary temperature, due to the type (patented and 3 years explored!) Of the device the combustion of the conventional solid combustion we need for the ignition and the reaching of the necessary temperature becomes gaseous and the Device burns according to the laws of pyrolysis. This has many advantages, especially for the environment, but also for the customer (no ashes, no soot, etc.) - that is why we also speak of the heating of the future (generally based on pyrolysis). The amount of 4kg pellet then "burns" within about 5-6 hours, the device has a visually great flame that always remains visible because there is no soot, at most steam at the beginning, when the temperature fluctuates. The container with the 4kg volume of burned pellets can then be disposed of after combustion when the oven is cold. The volume of 4kg is still there, since there is no burning as in solids, it was just the pellets, the gases are removed, these are carbon black and can be disposed of as organic waste, treated as a compost or better gardener you can for the flower garden use as these "ashes" contains very valuable substances and is completely pure (without chemicals etc.). All substances for combustion (gases) were removed from the pellet and are now useless and completely natural. Otherwise, most would land in the air, thus contributing to the good climate.

It has the following advantages:

* no electricity needed
* Consumption amount between 2-5kg always remains the same with 4kg recommended amount a total of 7 hours of heat, with 2 hours are included for the cooling, there heats the device only on average with 70%
* Heating capacity 3.9kW corresponds to a room (with standard insulation / room height 2.7m)  of about 35-50m ²
* no noise
* no technology, and no customer service necessary
* no soot
* no smoke (except for the ignition *) outside, the neighbors happy because no stink
* no ashes
* no more soiled windows
* constant heat
* very simple installation (a pipe that expels the  exhaust gases of the ignition or better in the chimney - pay attention to regulations in your country / region)
* no chimney draft necessary or has no sense
* great flame spectacle, absolute eye-catcher and super quiet - Decorative, romantic and a highlight in every room - he also gives you decent heat -  certainly one of the most important points why you should opt for the device

*to the ignition: must be done manually and eg: with a lighter, while the discharge of the exhaust gases that are still arising outward important, it still creates the familiar smoke for a few minutes. Otherwise, the device is smoke-free / emission-free, but the device must never be used without discharge to the outside in a closed interior. Also because of legal norms!

And the following disadvantages:

* no automatic ignition, must be started manually
* The amount you put in the device, you get then again as organic waste without any valuable substances out again - without this "cleaning" / disposal, the device is not filling again bar / heatable, since the amount is never less - that is This is certainly one of the main reasons why this obvious system of the future has not yet become established
* no immediate shutdown possible, except one clears the pellet tank with the entire 4kg - but the system is not designed and really thought about the 5 hours (+2 For cooling = 7 hours at 4kg pellet heating time) minimum heating also because of filling the tank

Installation

The device is mounted on the wall, it is only a drain pipe to install (as with all ovens). A fireplace is not required for the function, but you may need to use a decent and proper fireplace, depending on what the chimney sweep dictates. For the function, especially when burning out, the fireplace should be min. 2-3 meters (our recommendation). Since the device has under 4kW, the conditions are very simple and according to the EU standard 7129-3 tested, we will gladly submit a data sheet and the test report, the exhaust gas values ​​are only measurable at the time of ignition, otherwise it is a combustion only by the pellet Gases are withdrawn and are not measurable or not available. Similar to a gas stove this serves as an imagination in this example.The safety distances are 20cm down, left, right. Front and top is a safety distance of 80cm. All requirements of your country have to be observed.

Technical data sheet

rated capacity kW 3.9
Overall efficiency % > 96
Min consumption kg / h 0.7
Max consumption kg / h 0.7
pellet tank kg 4
Smoke output mm 80
air intake mm 42
Weight kg 60
Power consumption min.-max. W -
 
Sue Monroe
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Thank you very much, Phil!

It sounds really good.
 
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That sounds pretty darned cool.  Now we just need one about 5 times bigger for whole houses.

Does it need to be pellets or could wood chunks work?

Iit sounds like you can't "turn it down" once it's running.  And after a batch is done it needs to cool down for 2 hours.  I wonder if that's to let the char cool enough so you don't accidentally ignite it when it experiences fresh air?

Edit:  I wish I could read German.  Looks like they have a 16.5KW stove but I can't tell if it's the same technology or something different...
 
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This thread had some nice info on other versions of this idea:

https://permies.com/t/89764/Indoor-biochar-producing-TLUD-gasifier



I like charcoal producing wood burners because char can be used to fuel generators or vehicles, burned in a forge, as pigment,as a trade good,  animal bedding,  animal feed supplement,  or filter medium,  as well as as a soil amendment .

I want a charcoal producing stove that uses a retort,  rather than a TLUD model, because TLUD's seem to need "refined" fuel, that is of a regular size.
A retort is heated by an external heat source, thus the feedstock can be anything, including unseasoned or wet material.
Once the non-combustible gasses are driven off, the damage gasses can sustain the reaction.
The burn seems to go on for a long time, much like the TLUD.
Systems in which the  retort is heated by a rocket core have been built, but I don't think an indoor system has been built.
 
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Theres a video on YouTube of a guy burning woodworking scraps in a stainless steel container, inside of a woodstove.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jxBUqk2M3Y8&list=PLihFHKqj6JeozDm5VFoBHSHsDBMtbWr30&index=6&t=0s

Maybe not as cool, but it works?
 
Morfydd St. Clair
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Mike Jay wrote:That sounds pretty darned cool.  Now we just need one about 5 times bigger for whole houses.

Does it need to be pellets or could wood chunks work?

Iit sounds like you can't "turn it down" once it's running.  And after a batch is done it needs to cool down for 2 hours.  I wonder if that's to let the char cool enough so you don't accidentally ignite it when it experiences fresh air?

Edit:  I wish I could read German.  Looks like they have a 16.5KW stove but I can't tell if it's the same technology or something different...



Hi Mike, which page references the 16.5 KW stove?  I can badly translate or shamelessly copy from Google :)
 
Mike Jay Haasl
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Here it is: http://feuerland24.com/epages/457a880b-bdb4-4de2-8e5f-50816b736abf.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/457a880b-bdb4-4de2-8e5f-50816b736abf/Products/102

Thanks Morfydd!
 
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You could surround this thing with some mass to make it more efficient.

I have a little tlud outdoor cooker and it also makes charcoal from pellets if I starve it of air at the end.

I'd want to add a fan to this thing so I would have the option of burning the fuel down to ash if I wanted to do so.
 
Morfydd St. Clair
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Mike Jay wrote:Here it is: http://feuerland24.com/epages/457a880b-bdb4-4de2-8e5f-50816b736abf.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/457a880b-bdb4-4de2-8e5f-50816b736abf/Products/102

Thanks Morfydd!



I think this is just a standard pellet stove from what they say.  Maybe it runs water through it somehow?  Needs electrical power.

From Google:

Pellet stove water-bearing Phantom 16,5 kW 29cm wide Ultra flat with high efficiency pump - Premuim oven
Ghost_Weiss
Cladding: cladding in steel

We are an authorized dealer and your technical contact for this product.

with CE mark and fulfillment of all standards for Austria and Germany




Installation:

Easy installation to the chimney 80mm (top or rear exit possible at any time)
With exact description in German  
You only need a fireplace - possibly chimney pipes we have in stock 80-100-120mm
and a power connection 230V
Display LCD in German on top of the stove
Maintenance work is easy and uncomplicated


Technical specifications:

Total reading KW 3.1 - 16.5
Performance nominal kW 2,7 - 14,8
Power at water nominal kW 2.5 - 12.3
Power by radiation to the room KW 1.5 - 2.5
Boiler water content L 11
efficiency % 93
Consumption min Kg / h 0.3
Consumption max Kg / h 3.3
pellet tank kg 19
Flue gas connection ø mm 80
Air connection (optional) ø mm 50
Weight kg 115
Average power consumption W 85
tension V 230V - 50Hz
Dimensions cm 95 x 29 x 100
 
Phil Stevens
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Graham - you raise an important point. A TLUD needs to be "shut down" or the char needs to be quenched at the end of the process. If you watch the longer video on the website, you see the stove being emptied at the end of the burn and the embers are still live. So it's still hands-on and if you aren't around at the end of the burn your biochar is going to ash.
 
Why should I lose weight? They make bigger overalls. And they sure don't make overalls for tiny ads:
One million tiny ads for $25
https://permies.com/t/94684/million-tiny-ads
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