working with non-believers when you need large machinery and you are female

I have been having difficulty with the men I hire to move boulders and earth.

I am in Massachusetts, zone 5, up on a windy-ish hill, and I have a south southeast facing slope the goes down into a bowl with a stream at the bottom. A few years back, I had started to hand cut and shore up nice terraces, so I could trick a few trees into thinking they were in zone 6 (it worked at our last place) when a logger, who was removing a wall of hemlocks dumped all the brush over the bank on to the very area I was working in, before i could stop him.

So then I cleared off a smallish slope above it, planning to have two hugekultur beds, one on top of the other, with a wide terrace in between. My thinking was and is that I wanted to have boulders both for thermal mass as it gets cold, as well as serve as windbreaks, along with shrubs.

My problem has been getting the guys with excavators to actually listen to me and do what I ask without destroying what has been done so far. One guy ran over the small trees I had offered to dig out ahead of time, but he said there was no need. This is a guy who is very good at what he does.

I am now two years into a project that should have taken a day or two with an excavator and is once again stalled, now 3/4 of the way done.

It took me a while to realize there were two problems: 1) they don't get the idea of hugelkultur, - one guy kept removing the logs and brush I had put down for him to cover with earth, and 2) the bigger problem: getting large men with large machines to actually listen to a woman and do what she asks, especially when she says "stop."

I thought it was just me, but I have now talked to a number of women who have had the same experience. The fact that I am paying them for their time doesn't seem to help. Any suggestions, other than to own a small excavator and do it myself?

I have attached a couple of pictures of where I have gotten so far

Sometimes, you can go over the plan in detail beforehand, with the warning "if you stray from this, I will not be paying you". That sometimes gets their attention.

Sometimes, finding a male who understands what you're doing and having him do the talking for you works. Humiliating that it's necessary, yes. But if you can find the right spokesman, it beats banging your head against a brick wall.

And sometimes, the only way to do it is doing it yourself. No need to own the machinery, you can usually find one available for rent. Study youtube videos and make sure you know how to drive one, first.

But, yeah. Too often when someone thinks they know what they're doing, they won't hear anything else.

My first thought was "hire a woman." Sigh. My kid just went through this with getting her bike fixed. In the end she sent her boyfriend to do it for her, because nobody would listen to what she wanted. (he also mysteriously got the job done for much cheaper.) My sympathies, I've been there and done that. It is humiliating and ridiculous that in this day and age it's still the same old poo.
If you're not too far out in the sticks maybe you can rent the equipment and have a few fun days?

Edited: or maybe some fabulous Permie here is not too far from you could recommend someone trustworthy?

Thanks.
I keep finding that I have to just do things myself, but for this one, I want someone who has experience and skill with the equipment and landscaping. Right now, I think the lower slope will just wash down, either by rain or next spring when the snow melts if I don;t get some rocks there for support and a runoff route

I cannot comment on the woman point of view. I can comment on an excavator operator. My belief is that any excavator operator can dig a hole, but not every operator can build a pond. That is a powerful statement if you think about it. There are permie friendly operators that get it. They are in demand and get a premium, but when you factor the frustration from the alternative it becomes a savings in time, erosion, money, and an earlier production of edibles.

I find contractors to be generally incapable of following detailed instructions, especially that differ from The Norm.

I hear the same thing from others. The standard that myself and all of the property owners I know follow, is that if the details are important, we need to be on site directly supervising, ready to jump in and say 'No! Do it this way!!' Usually several times. If there is heavy equipment needing stopping, an airhorn might be needed.

It will probably come as no surprise that most of us prefer to do things ourselves, unless the task needs more than one person working at a time.


The sexism aspect is annoyingly common; the women I know address it as mentioned, either by getting a man to act for them, or by being super strict. If they were men, they would get called a hardass. Since they're not, probably they get called a bitch; fortunately the opinions of assholes who couldn't listen to instructions don't count for nothing.


For your specific task, could you spraytag each boulder with a number, and mark the spot it must go? Ridiculous, but might be clear enough..

<<airhorn>>
best idea ever.
FOUL! HALT! STOP!

I've had similar experiences working with some individuals even as a male myself. Generally it seems to come up most when the person sees themselves as an 'expert' at what they are doing. A lot of men have the unfortunate belief that when it comes to powered tools, the only women who know what they are talking about would not have been calling for their help. I imagine that makes the experience more universal to women trying to deal with these self-proclaimed experts. I try to work under the assumption that people mean well and are just wearing blinders based on their own experiences. Walking someone through things on foot, step by step, and explaining in overkill detail sometimes helps. It eats a block of time to work in, but saves headaches. After that, the person proves if they are someone who is listening or just some jerk who's going to do what they want regardless of anything you say. If it is the former, then you've overcome the problem. If it's the latter, then overcoming the problem is stopping them, paying for the time already used, and thanking them for their time. Then sending them on their way and finding someone else with the same set of skills who is willing to listen.

I am a female and have worked with contractors many times. What I find is that respecting their knowledge, while giving them directions is the best approach. For example- "I realize it is difficult to maneuver into that spot and I am giving you a 2ft space to drop a tree or dig a trench... You think you can do it without hitting that tree? They will tell you why if you ask. Never expect an excavator to inherently grasp that the tree is important- they rip stuff out for a living.  I stand close but don't interfere constantly. This issue is not gender related though it feels that way because you have to be blunt and clear with instructions and this can be harder for women. I also tend to their needs - no one works here without the offer of coffee, occasionally a snack - I am a horrible cook and I tell them up front - when you treat them as humans on their level you get better responses. I never whine - "hey , remember those are valuable plants - get your big ass off them." when they step on them, works well. It is communicating with them on their level- it is hard work they appreciate the honesty and the fact that I am not just a queen bee ordering them around. (not saying you are). If they by chance say sexist things- call them on it. WTF did you just say? I am actually liked, never called a bitch twice lol. I was raised in a construction family so this is easier for me.

believer non believer whats the difference
if you hire someone to do something they need to do what you hired them for, nothing less and nothing more, unless its a real nice generous person
gender has nothing to do with it. before you hire them put it in writing and put in clause if other material, previous work is destroyed they will not be paid. its just like hiring a contractor. it would be different if it was a friend with a machine and wanted to help you out.
renting equipment might be an option to do it yourself. many places that rent that type of equipment have delivery service.  Home depot rents small excavators and rents pickups to tow them with..  modern machines are easy to use, just dont ride slopes sideways, go up or down a hill

Thank you everyone for your replies. (PS, I WAS on site the whole time, and I did wave my arms, hold up a hand, like a cop, and yell "stop." That didn't always work, and it got scary trying to stop a large machine carrying a large boulderas it came toward me...and they did want me right there. )