• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Devaka Cooray
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Jeremy VanGelder

Not meant to have a hugel ?

 
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I built my first hugel this summer.  I was so happy with the results, and excited to see what came next.  I planted pumpkins and they did amazingly well at first.  Then things went down hill, the leaves started turning yellow and the pests came.  I don't know why this happened, could be lots of reasons, but I forgot the water on one evening, and didn't discover it until the next evening, so I believe I probably washed away most of the nitrogen, and other nutrients I put into the soil.  Before I found out if I was going to be able to fix the problem the chickens dug the hugel to the top wood layer.  Since then I have lost count of how many times I have put the soil layer back on top of my hugel.   I even made a chicken yard, so the chickens could be out without access to my hugel.  Put the soil back on my hugel and planted bush peas, and threw in some chrysanthemums I have rooted from cutting.  Finally I was going to get my hugelkultur established.
The chickens can get out.  Once those little buggers figured out they can fly, there is no stopping them.  I keep adding things to the fence, and gate, but so far the rooster and a hen or two get out a couple times a week.  
Last night I went to see if I could see pea sprouts emerging yet, and I find a bare hugel.  The only thing that seems to withstand the chickens are the two lavender plants (I planted them when I first planted the pumpkins. For some reason the chickens don't mess with them.)  Part of me thinks the universe in sending me a message, I'm just not meant to have a hugelkultur.  I'm just to stubborn for that.  I don't know how I will keep those (insert curse word of your choice) chickens off my hugel, but I will find a way.  Hind sight is 20/20.  Before I fenced the chickens in, a 4' fence kept them out of my veggie garden, now they get into that too. If only I had just fenced the hugel, instead of the chickens.  There is a part of me, the tired and broke part of me that says give up, but so far the part of me that loves to garden, and can't wait to see what the hugel will do that says keep going!  I think it might be hard to hold my head up if I can't out smart a chicken.
 
pollinator
Posts: 3768
Location: 4b
1366
dog forest garden trees bee building
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Chickens love piles, as you have discovered.  They also love wood chips.  Mine dig wood chips and anything that is in a pile until they absolutely can't dig farther.  Apparently level = heaven in chicken brains.
 
gardener & hugelmaster
Posts: 3698
Location: Gulf of Mexico cajun zone 8
1975
cattle hugelkultur cat dog trees hunting chicken bee woodworking homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe this was the year of the rampaging chickens? Mine rarely bothered gardens until this year. Built them their own garden late in the season & that helped some. They still scratch up the ground level hugels. I intentionally feed them snacks at the base of a tall hugel & they don't bother going uphill on that. Yet. They were digging too close to some newly planted walking onions so I poked many sticks into the ground to prevent damage. Ugly but very effective. Seems like sticks around a hugel would be a good deterrent.

Besides growing food hugels are excellent carbon sequestration. Don't we all deserve the benefits of that?
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks. I did have some stick around the plants I planted, maybe not enough.  Maybe I need a porcupine hugel, it would be good for a laugh even if it doesn't work.
 
Mike Barkley
gardener & hugelmaster
Posts: 3698
Location: Gulf of Mexico cajun zone 8
1975
cattle hugelkultur cat dog trees hunting chicken bee woodworking homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Porcupine sums it up nicely.
porcupine-Egyptian-onions.jpg
[Thumbnail for porcupine-Egyptian-onions.jpg]
 
gardener
Posts: 2167
Location: Olympia, WA - Zone 8a/b
1041
5
hugelkultur kids forest garden fungi trees foraging books bike homestead
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Robins and some other wild birds do the same on my hugel beds. I have started using logs to make little mini-terraces so more of the mulch stays on the top of the beds. But the wild birds are a fair bit smaller than chickens. You might also focus on perennial woody plants. Perhaps those plants would manage better with the chickens? Especially if they were already at least 2 feet tall.
 
pollinator
Posts: 11853
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1261
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Armadillos attempt to level everything I build.

bulldozer.jpg
armadillo
armadillo
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I put a fence around my hugel.  It's only 4' high, so the chickens can fly over it, but they don't fly into my veggie garden that only has a 3' fence.  If I leave the garden gate open they will invade.  They do fly over their yard fence which is 6' high, but they use other things to fly on and then fly over, So I will try to cover or block there step stools so to speak.  They were watching me from the coop, so who knows what they are plotting.
I pulled the weeds, put the soil back on the hugel.  Today I will Finnish putting the soil on, and put on a layer of straw and cross my fingers the chickens find something else to do.  I would really like to try growing veggies on my hugel this year.  So far the chickens have won the battles, but I'm determined to win the war.
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm so excited the fence is actually working.  It makes no sense because the fence is 4' high, and only a few feet on the out side of the fence is a wood chip pile about 8 to 10 feet high I haven't used yet, I was afraid even if the chickens didn't fly over the fence, they may cruise over from the wood pile.  I plan today I hope, or soon anyway to cover all the soil with straw.  Then let the planting begin.  I have already planted a bell and a hot pepper plant.  I'm having second thoughts about there placement.  I planted them on the top.  My hegel is actually two , because I wanted to see if there was a difference using English walnut verses other wood.  The Hugel runs east west.  With a path between.  I may replant the bell on the down ward slope of one of the east sides.  In the past I have had to give the bell peppers a bit of shade from the harsh afternoon sun, the hugel will do this naturally.  
I'm can't wait to plant this baby and see what happens.  I finished it about September 2019, and we had no rain to speak of this winter, so I figure I will have to water it like everything else, but my hope is in a couple of years it will give me hugel majic.
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So far so good.  I can't believe it worked.  I have planted a tomato on the top, now I need to decide what else to plant.  I noticed some volunteers popping up.  I know it must be gourds.  I planted gourds with my pumpkins last year and I was so frustrated with the chicken situation I just left them out there.  I hate to pull anything out, but I don't want my hugel taken over by gourds.  I also have a grass like thing sprouting hear and there.  I covered the hugel with straw.  I have a feeling the straw had seeds in it.  I thought it must be Johnson grass coming through already, but when I pulled  it there was a little seed at the bottom.  the fun never ends.
I was thinking about a little bit of everything on my hugel.  I already have 2 type of peppers and a tomato, lavender, and a borage transplant.  I thought maybe a squash, zucchini, and some melon, maybe a cucumber, and there must be flowers.  I have raised bed veggie garden, so it means I can have fun with the hugel and see what does well, and what I should avoid in the future.  I'd love any suggestions, and or comments.  Thanks.
 
Mike Barkley
gardener & hugelmaster
Posts: 3698
Location: Gulf of Mexico cajun zone 8
1975
cattle hugelkultur cat dog trees hunting chicken bee woodworking homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm guessing the armadillos didn't grow? ha

The same sticks shown in the pic posted above are now located around the base of a tall hugel. Working very well except the day I threw some buckwheat seeds around. Apparently that was just too much temptation for chickens but other than that they are staying off the hugel.

The general recommendation is to plant mostly nitrogen fixing plants the first couple years. Peas, beans, clover, peanuts, etc. I followed that advice that but am also planting a little of everything else. Like you said, to see what wants to grow there & what doesn't. At the moment it is mostly various brassicas & onions that overwintered but some early spring plantings have sprouted & look like they'll be happy.

Borage? Good one!!! I like flowers in & around gardens too. I think one of today's tasks will be adding some borage & yarrow to the hugel wildflower area.

Rather than pulling the gourds out I suggest chopping & dropping them to leave the roots in the ground. Maybe add some comfrey for future roots & for future chopping & dropping.


 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The fence works, if I close the gate all the way.  I didn't realize the gate was open about 3".  Clearly this was an invitation.  today I have to go save my tomato plant and put the dirt back on the north side of the hugel.  I guess I will have to double check that gate.  I am grateful I only lost a couple of plants.  This year the hugel is just getting all the unlabeled starts. ( I call it the mystery hugel.  I started a lot of seeds this year, and as time has gone some markers were lost, or I didn't mark it when I re-potted it, so I ended up with some things that weren't labeled.) It's no big loss, just irritating.  
 
Posts: 5
1
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Be careful with borage. I threw a few seeds near my mound and they took over my yard. Then the next year I planted a single fennel plant, not the bulb kind. I wanted the fennel pollen, I'm kind of chef-y. The next year I had enough fennel pollen to supply 30 restaurants for a year and this year I am trying to dig it out from all the many places it hid. I must have pulled up at least two dozen fennel plants. I thought I had them all but I walked the Garden today and saw at least 10 more. Live and learn, sigh. I have had similar run-ins with mint, chives, lemon balm, and horseradish.
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I had to totally redo one of my raised veggie beds because of mint.  I still have it all over in the garden paths. I don't mind it there, but I have to make sure it doesn't climb into one of the beds.   Then not only do I yank it out, but keep pulling until it is quite a way from the veggie bed.  I know what you mean about borage, but I don't mind it, if it comes up somewhere I don't want it, I chop and drop it, or pull it out.   Mint taught me a valuable lesson. If it says invasive,  take it seriously!  Thanks for the warning.  I have had one issue after another with this hugel. I just hope after a couple of years it will do what it's supposed to do.  Then it will all be worth it.  Thank you.
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm glad you mentioned lemon balm, I just bought seed to plant it.  Should I plant it in a pot?  
 
steward
Posts: 21564
Location: Pacific Northwest
12053
11
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One thing I used to do to keep chickens off a garden, is to lay fencing on top of the garden. They can't scratch and peck, so their fun is greatly diminished. It keeps cats from making messes, too.

Plant the lemon balm in a pot! And maybe try to cut the flowers off before they go to seed. I planted some in my herb spiral years ago, and now it's finally reached the invasive stage. I found lemonbalm growing under my peach tree, a good 20 feet away! It seeded there! I gotta do better this year at cutting it down before it seeds!
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I covered the top of my little raised bed I have on the outside of my veggie garden for flowers with chicken wire, it did the trick.  I have never had trouble 😬 with chickens like this bunch.  A flower dug up once in a while, but for the most part they spent there day in the walnut orchard next to us.  This flock stays in the yard, and are very distructive.  If it isn't fenced it's fair game.  They seem to have a special kind of radar for an open gate.  If I forget to shut a gate, or don't get it totally closed I will pay the price.  The funny thing is they fly over a much higher fence to get out then any of my garden fences.  The day they figure that out I'm doomed.
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I did it again.  I'm digging a hugel beet, and decided to put some of the soil on the hugelkultur.  I worked until it was to dark to see.  The next day I went out to discover I forgot to close to gate.  Back to the drawing board.  So frustrating. I weeded the hugelkultur just before this happened, but I didn't weed around the hugelkultur, I figured I would do that when I was done with my veggie garden.  Now when I put the soil back on I will have to try to remove the weeds. I'm so mad at myself.  A moment of carelessness, cause lots of extra work.  The war continues.
On a side note my daughter was amazed how fast those chickens work.  The changes I made on my coop seemed to do the trick. They were not getting out.  This didn't mean they can't.  I started noticing a couple now and then, and thought I need to get the wood chips smoothed out, they are to tall making it easy to get out.  I happened to be taking a break, and watched about 4 of them fly over the fence.  They didn't even need the wood chips for help.  So not only do I have to fix the hugelkultur, I need to extend the fence.  I will never understand people who say they have nothing to do.  
IMG_20210322_151827975_HDR.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20210322_151827975_HDR.jpg]
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here I go again. The hugelkulture has not preformed the way I have hoped. I can water a little less, but still have to water.  
This last fall the chickens got in yet again.    
I put it back together today.  The soil looks amazing.  My hope is the hugel will be what I always hopped it would be. We have had a lot more rain late winter, & spring.  My hope is a lot of that water has been soaked up by the logs deep in the hugel.
I rarely let the chickens out these days, and finally have it so they can't get out, so maybe my hugel will finally be worth the effort of rebuilding it every year.
IMG20230324191243.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG20230324191243.jpg]
 
steward
Posts: 16098
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4279
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jen, thank you for sharing the picture of that amazing soil.

This really shows what can be done to help improve soils.

I do feel that you will see a big difference this year.

Best wishes for a great growing season.
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wish I could say everything is going great, but it wouldn't be true.  Everything did well as long as I watered like all my other gardens.  Maybe I could go an extra day, but more than that and things died.  I had such high hopes for the hugelkulture. I never believed I wouldn't have to water at all, but I hopped I would have to water a lot less.

New plan.  I'm going to alter the shape. Instead of an A frame shape I'm going to try to make it like stairs with a small flat section on top. With each stare section I will make a ridge around the sides and front. So when I water the water will go into the hugelkulture instead of just running down the sides.
I know for a fact our hot dry weather keeps wood from breaking down for quite a while. I had a wood chip pile for two years, and only the chips on the very bottom completely broke down.  My theory is most of the water, by rain, or me just rolls down the sides. My hope is if I make little trays the water will go into the hugelkulture and eventually start working like it should.
Maybe I've lost my mind, I just want it to work so much.
 
Posts: 538
Location: Iqaluit, Nunavut zone 0 / Mont Sainte-Marie, QC zone 4a
92
2
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't know. I have a wet environment. We're discussing slug slinging
(I found one in my hair and was relieved it was only a slug!)

And fortunately on year one I didn't have to water it because I was growing a modified mini hugely while on crutches

Just keep trying

But I didn't grow the squash family
Powdery mildew means they have to be contained and moved every year, or find the to of a hill on your walls and try a self sustaining mound (perhaps the reverse (buried) hugel: you go down 2' and it's like double digging

Well you have a dead hugely

If you've got branches in there, grow pea crops

Start a new one
Try a windrow or up against a line of trees like I'm doing

Just don't give up!.

Thanks for sharing -- we all learn at least as much with our mistakes
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1748
Location: N. California
813
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm sorry to say I did give up on a hugelkultur.  Not because of the chickens. I did finally manage to keep the chickens in there coop.  I'm sure there's a way to make it work in my dry climate, but discovering gophers in my hugel I decided to remove it.  To be honest it made me cry.  All the time and effort, plus I just loved the look of it. It just wasn't working. I had to water as often as the rest of the garden, and be creative because otherwise the water would just run down the slope.  It was a sad day.
All is not lost. All those logs and large pieces of firewood are still in the ground. I built raised beds with hardwire cloth on the bottom, and put them over where  the hugelkultur was. I still miss it now and then, that  being said it was the right decision. The hugle beets are so much more productive, and easy to use.  I'm pretty stubborn, and determined to figure out how to make things work . Sometimes no matter how much you want something to work, the best decision is to do something else.
Would I tell someone in my area not to build a hugelkultur? No. I'm sure it can be done. I would advise them to use hardwire cloth at ground level, and up to sides a bit. I would advise them to use a drip system, or make pockets for the plants so the water stays in the root zone.  Most important be patient . I'm quite certain it takes much longer to "work" like it's supposed to in my very dry climate.
I may try again sometime in the future, but for now I will keep on growing.
IMG20240408185300.jpg
No more hugle
No more hugle
IMG20240612205728.jpg
A new beginning
A new beginning
IMG20240825194002.jpg
Pumpkin madness
Pumpkin madness
 
Ra Kenworth
Posts: 538
Location: Iqaluit, Nunavut zone 0 / Mont Sainte-Marie, QC zone 4a
92
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well it does look really nice so there's something to say for not whipping a dead horse !
 
life is short - but not as short as this ad:
Freaky Cheap Heat - 2 hour movie - HD streaming
https://permies.com/wiki/238453/Freaky-Cheap-Heat-hour-movie
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic