what is normal and what is mental illness?

I think a lot of permies can relate to this quote that I found on FB:

FB page source.

That quote and that book influenced my life when I read it in high school - since then I have been a Marxist ! As in Marx Brothers. Even when I can't say it out loud there is a funny quip sitting right there ready if I need it. Boss - " You'll need to give me a duplicate copy and keep one for your file ". OK I think - "Whats a duplicate ? They're those twins up in Canada . " Joining permies.com " I would'nt join any forum that would have me as a member ". Watching a ballet - wait in silence for most of it and then turn to the person next to you and say " Why don't they just get taller girls ? ". There is a million ways to deal with this kind of mental illness. Maybe I will hold a contest - prize being a pasture raised chicken or turkey " Say the word and win the bird !'"

" Blessed are the cracked , for they shall let in the light " - Groucho

wayne stephen wrote:
" Blessed are the cracked , for they shall let in the light " - Groucho

And there was me thinking that our cracks let our light *out*. My illusions are shattered...

And there's the one, the only...Leonard Cohen:
"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in"

Burra Maluca wrote:

wayne stephen wrote:
" Blessed are the cracked , for they shall let in the light " - Groucho

And there was me thinking that our cracks let our light *out*. My illusions are shattered...

I like your version better.

Normal is boring.
-me

Actually, the more I read that, the more I think that those people are more 'brainwashed' than 'mentally ill'.

For us true crazies, I prefer this one (also from facebook)...

Burra Maluca wrote:Actually, the more I read that, the more I think that those people are more 'brainwashed' than 'mentally ill'.

For us true crazies, I prefer this one (also from facebook)...

Yes. That.

I think you're right that the 'mentally ill' label is a bit harsh and that it is more of a brain washing that Huxley is referring to.

Silly example: just this morning Paul and I were talking about men and women shaving. I don't shave my legs or my armpits. That's horrific to a lot, a LOT of Americans. (Rant warning: Women have hair. Prepubescent girls do not. I am happy to be a woman!) In my professional work, however, I am extra careful that I do not show that I have unshaved hair in these places. I kinda feel like I'm being 'in this world, but not of it' when I make a conscious compromise like that. Btw, I love that it saves loads of money, water, etc. by NOT shaving.

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Women have hair. Prepubescent girls do not. I am happy to be a woman!

This is the best argument I've ever heard for not shaving. Thank you very much!

The quote's from the 50s and some of the language is a bit...dated...
Huxley was a really prescient guy, but he was still 'of his time'

You don't need to open the doors of perception with sillycibin to see the sillyness. I wonder how Huxley would have responded to the Jerry Springer Show ?

ours is a sick society....there is a law in our county, which says that I may not pitch a tent in my yard and allow my children to sleep outside...now, folks, that is just not american...I made a special point of sending off a loud obnoxious letter telling the bureauRat in charge of that idiocy to watch closely...as I intend to allow my children to sleep in a tent in the yard as often as they feel it is necessary, and by the way, I DARE you to screw with me about it...

This one old famer and I have fought them to a standstill over this...him, because he got screwed with for allowing a friend to say in his camper trailer for three days, and me because that is a might tall windmill worth tilting at.

"You can't.'

"watch me, asshole."


The second guerilla pond went in this week. need some koi. I wonder if catching water that flows onto my land is a crime? lol...bet it is.

yeah, maybe society thinks I am a little crazy, in fact I know it does, as de gubmint made me that way, and I get paid because of it...but...wanting real food, free air, and to not be screwed with on land I bought and paid for is crazy, sign me up.


It is all fun and games until someone gets a flaming bag of <grassfed organic, holistic> cow shit on the porch...lol

When I go on a work frenzy or put countless hours into some invention or business idea, some would call it crazy. Some would consider my nomadic lifestyle crazy. I look at the multitudes who claim to not be where they want to be but do little to change their lot, and I think that they're the crazy ones.

I have managed to convert a few. Whenever I hire a young guy who claims to want to get ahead financially, I ask if he pays rent. Most do, which leads me to explain the financial benefits of living at work. Some look at me in disbelief, while others quickly calculate how much they are spending to live in space that is not their own. I know for sure that three others have done this and they cite my influence as part of their reason for it. All are single men. I suspect that it would be very difficult to raise kids under such conditions and few women would tolerate waking up at a construction site. Claude, one of the young guys, was promptly dumped by his girlfriend when he tried this. A year later he had a smarter girlfriend who was all for it. They soon had enough money to get into the property market. Their friends remained rent slaves while they achieved an important goal. Which ones are crazy?

Normal is a setting on the dryer...and I rarely ever use one of those.

To me, mental illness or deficiency is hallmarked by an individual's inability to adjust to their environment on a daily basis or the inability to change that environment if they cannot adjust to it. This includes those who cannot make adjustments on their own but must be told what adjustments to make by societal "norms", the TV, their peers(who has those? Not me...I have no set group profile), etc.

I agree with Huxley in general but it seems that one person's mental illness is another person's normal.

To me, all those people clamoring on capitol hill to get a glimpse of a limo with some guy pretending to be a president on inauguration day, are all mentally ill.

Who's crazy and who's normal?  When I do it, it's normal.  When my neighbor does it, it's crazy!

I think a lot of mental crisis's stem from loss which really requires the grieving process to come full circle before any real recovery can take place.

Just as an example, a divorce is the death of a marriage, love, and a lot of hopes and dreams. In dealing with cancer, the old me kind of died, and it has been a real challenge to accept less stamina, being unable to take care of livestock, and from that a loss of a lot of hopes and dreams for my farm. In dealing with the loss of a child, I see kids that would be about my son's age, and think of all the mileposts of childhood that we were robbed of.

In all three examples, as crappy as they are perhaps, there is loss, and it seems it required me to go through all five of the grieving stages before I was really able to move on. Along the way, I think people go wayward in trying to cope. When things are too tough for them to handle at the moment, they go outside the normal. I am not a huge fan of counselors, so I don't know if seeing one is required. I think it is normal for people to play what-if games in their mind, and beneficial in many ways when they do. In that, there is this sort of back and forth across the line, and that is understandable and normal in its own way.

It is straying too far or for too long when family should become concerned.

This subject is so controversial!!  There are so many mental illnesses that the lines get murky. How does a doctor diagnose a mental illness without a biased perspective of what is normal?

The medical community uses the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-5th edition (DSM-V) to diagnose mental illness. It is revised to add or modify disorders every so often. In the 1950s, the first edition had 60 disorders; the current edition has 297.  The manual gives the impression that the disorders have a scientific basis, but there is no gene for 97% of diagnoses, and the idea that some disorders are caused by a chemical imbalance is only hypothetical.  Because disorders are diagnosed based on symptoms, the manual promotes the use of pharmaceuticals for treatments. Who can objectively decide which symptoms indicate something “abnormal” or not?  It’s all subjective.  Where is the line drawn?

Personally, I have been diagnosed with SEVERAL mental disorders by different doctors. Some are outright laughable (I really wondered if one of the doctors was sane, himself).  I honestly don’t have several, it is just a testament to how there is no standard “normal” in psychiatry.  There is no cut and dry answer. I am constantly playing the game of “Am I this, or am I that, or am I none?”  

Medication is a whole different ballgame. I’ve seen doctors that wanted to throw out all my current meds for meds they like to use.  I’ve had a DNA test to see which types of medications will cause negative interactions. I feel like I am a Guinea pig waiting for a humane group to come free me from my fate.  I know I am not the only person with a mental illness to feel this way.  I’m trying to find a way off this merry-go-round, but it’s hard to find a psychiatrist on board with me.

Oh, I’ve done the therapy route- psychotherapy, CBT, DBT, etc. Some of it works, but a good therapist is a must. If you aren’t comfortable with someone, or if you feel the therapy is getting nowhere, find someone or something else.