• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • Jay Angler
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • paul wheaton
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Tina Wolf
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Jeremy VanGelder

Can I have inflated sides AND roll up sides?

 
Posts: 3
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello, I'm in the process of purchasing a 17x28 high tunnel kit. I'm planning on making it geothermal so I wanted double layers of poly all the way to the ground so I could inflate the entire greenhouse. I also wanted roll-up sides to continue using it in the summer. I'm getting the idea from this video (watch at 10:00). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-fa_5co2FM&t=2001s

The company is telling me I can't have both. They're saying I have to remove the roll-up bar for the inflated sides to work. They want me to either order two layers of plastic with no hip rail, or two layers of plastic just for the top and roll-up sides. I don't understand why I can't have the hip rail with spaces in the wiggle wire to allow the sides to inflate. Both layers would be secured at the bottom with wiggle wire, followed by the roll bar. When I'm ready to roll-up the sides, I would remove the wiggle wire on the bottom and roll up both layers of plastic.

I don't know if the inflated sides add that much insulation, but we're taking a cost difference of $34 for the bigger piece of plastic. So it seems like a cheap way to get some extra insulation. Am I missing something here?
 
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
595
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
How would you inflate the sides? the fan would only be blowing into the top so the hip board would stop the sides receiving any air and inflating. Small gaps in the wire wouldn't be enough to let air through as the plastic is still tight along the channel so it won't bulge out and allow air in. But gaps would probably  be enough to create unevenness in the tension on the plastic making it liable to tear. especially in summer when that little strip would be all that's holding your plastic down.
If you really wanted to split the difference you could do one side with roll up and one with double polly.
 
master steward
Posts: 6332
Location: southern Illinois, USA
2185
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig bee solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There may be an option.  It sounds like you are looking for insulating value.   In the high tunnel I have, the sides only roll up a few feet.   I an exploring using a layer of bubble wrap above that on the inside.   Note, I have not done this yet, but it sounds to me like it will work.    
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't see why you can't do both.  Or at the very least put a wiggle wire channel on the ends for winter to inflate the sides knowing that you'd have to undo that to roll them up.  I've seen a connector kit with a hose to bridge between the main inflated area and the inflated sides.  The trick with making the inflated roll up sides is you'll need to seal the ends of the 2 layers of the sides together with tape or a heat weld seal if you can manage to do that with an iron or something. I assume a non roll up side would have wiggle wire on all the edges and I'd also assume that a wiggle wire bottom edge will seal better than the roll up bar will to the edge of the wood.

You could get the roll up sides for summer and put wiggle wire channel all around on the inside so you can seal out drafts in the winter and have inflated sides. I think inflated roll up sides would still be drafty along the bottom bar.

try searching for this "Jumper Hose for 60 CFM Air Inflation System - 48" to see what I mean about the hose

We have a high tunnel with roll up sides and 2 layers except parts of the ends which have rigid double polly doors and plywood doors on the other.  I have not gotten to installing the blower even without it or heat we've kept cold hardy plants like kale chard, carrots alive all winter with another layer of plastic over the row.  The plastic they sent for the main cover was large enough that I didn't use separate pieces for the roll up sides.  When it comes time to replace the cover I will use individual pieces so that I can tighten up the main cover as it stretches.  I'll keep the old cover to make row covers and for tarping areas to kill weeds before I plant in the main garden.

We've had issues with too much heat in the spring on sunny days where we had everything closed up.  I've contemplated using an old cordless drill attached to my manual crank roll up sides for such situations.
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes you can have both.

https://youtu.be/ILRe1EZk7ig
 
Posts: 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Another option would be to use Solawrap greenhouse bubble film to cover the side walls. It is insulated, does not need inflation, and can be used with roll-up sides.
https://www.acfgreenhouses.com/solawrap-greenhouse-film
 
Posts: 67
Location: Southern illinois
16
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You can have both roll up sides and them be inflated/insulated. How do I know? I have it growing on in my backyard tropical greenhouse in zone 6b. Our roll up sides open to about a 4-5 feet high opening and our greenhouse is 48' long × 20' wide so our side walls during summer have a 4-5' × 48' opening on both the west and east sides, our north wall is solid, covered it with our old swimming pool walls "metal siding" (price of metal siding is crazy). On the inside we got 2-3 inch thick 3'×3' styrofoam boards we sourced from our local prairie farms recycling area for the insulation factor. And then after a summer of our styrofoam fading from the sun exposure. We finished cleaning up our old pool site and used the fabric you lay on the ground to then drape it over our styrofoam so it will last longer and hide the ghetto look inside the greenhouse with the black fabric (solar gain-ish). Our south wall has a double door opening and we wiggle wired around it so we could also inflate our south facing wall. The whole thing is insulated as good as a greenhouse could be I think. Heck even our doors have styrofoam insulation packed into them.

For getting the inflation set up there is a company called atlas greenhouse they sell the inflation fans and the jumper tubes to go from roof to walls and so on. We have two of their inflation fans keeping our greenhouse inflated one at the north end(into east wall) then a jumper hose from south end of east wall into the ceiling/roof. Then we have another jumper at the north west corner of our roof going into north west end of west wall. Then another jumper hose from south west end of west wall into the south facing wall on the west side. And then we have our second inflation fan hooked up to south facing wall above our double doors. So the fans are blowing against each other but in turn keeping the greenhouse inflated because the forces of air are so far away from each other. We also have a double barrel wood stove inside to keep things above 45°f all winter long. Even with this cold blast we got goi g on right now, it was 15°f this morning outside and I woke up to the temps in greenhouse at 52°f on north end by woodstove and 48°f at south end. So what we got going on is working for us. We have 3 jackfruit trees (one has 4 jackfruits on it), 3 lemon trees, 2 avocado trees, 1 blood orange tree, 1 mango tree, and a bunch of small potted plants and other plants/flowers we wanted to overwinter. We have been doing this for 7 years now keeping the trees heated inside a greenhouse, this is our second year of our tropical trees actually being planted into the ground inside the greenhouse. We have the whole floor woodchipped @ about 6 inches deep. And the sides along the east and west walls we made mounds of chips about 16" deep and 16" wide for extra insulation. Next spring we plan to trench 30inches deep along the outside of our greenhouse to bury more styrofoam boards to insulate our ground temps inside greenhouse from the freezing ground temps just outside our greenhouse's border. We are going the distance for our tropical greenhouse on a budget too!!!  I can post pictures of the setup if anyone is interested in a specific part of our setup.
 
michael rowald
Posts: 67
Location: Southern illinois
16
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dayne Raff wrote:Yes you can have both.

https://youtu.be/ILRe1EZk7ig

instead of this sealer we just put a piece of wiggle wire channel in this area on the end rungs and when we unroll/roll we have to undo 4 wires on each corner. We have the plastic coated wire so it's less invasive on the plastic sheets in that spot. It is a pain sometimes but hey we have tropical trees in zone 6b it takes some work to get that. Nothing is completely hands free....but our brains can try to get us as close to that as possible lol
 
Posts: 77
17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good morning. I use a jumper kit from the inflated part to the roll up.also houses with plastic end walls I do the same. Basically looks like vacuum cleaner hose. It has a special plastic ring with notches. When you slide it on and twist it locks..
Screenshot_20221120-052523_Samsung-Internet.jpg
Jumper.
Jumper.
 
michael rowald
Posts: 67
Location: Southern illinois
16
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Eric Hroboni wrote:Good morning. I use a jumper kit from the inflated part to the roll up.also houses with plastic end walls I do the same. Basically looks like vacuum cleaner hose. It has a special plastic ring with notches. When you slide it on and twist it locks..

that's the part^....
20221119_103652.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_103652.jpg]
20221119_103713.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_103713.jpg]
20221119_103642.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_103642.jpg]
20221119_103736.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_103736.jpg]
20221119_103728.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_103728.jpg]
20221119_103824.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_103824.jpg]
20221119_104037.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_104037.jpg]
20221119_104059.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_104059.jpg]
20221119_104132.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20221119_104132.jpg]
 
Eric Hroboni
Posts: 77
17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good morning. That's it.hey check out my rocket furnace. Huge batch box rocket stove  thread. Thanks.
 
Eric Hroboni
Posts: 77
17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good morning. That's it.hey check out my rocket furnace. Huge batch box rocket stove  thread. Thanks.
 
You will always be treated with dignity. Now, strip naked, get on the probulator and hold this tiny ad:
133 hours of video: the Permaculture Design Course and Appropriate Technology Course
https://permaculture-design-course.com/
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic