• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

Getting started with design

 
Posts: 10
3
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I recently bought 25 acres of cow pasture in SW Missouri.  It is near where I live so won't be a homestead, but I would like to apply some permaculture principles as appropriate.  My goals are non-economic, and include:

- Some reforestation
- Some "food forest" type of setup, fruit and nut trees, native berries, etc.
- Some 'prairie' restoration with wildflowers and native grasses

I've not taken a PDC course but have read a decent bit on the subject, and have two primary questions.

First, in general, would it be advisable to invest in detailed maps, designs, and expert assistance?  I've looked at services from Geoff Lawton and others.

Second, if I choose a "diy" method, what are the steps to take, primarily around water usage?  The property has relatively dry slopes from the East and West down to a floodplain that stays fairly wet but not soggy, and is bisected by a (usually) dry creek.  There is an existing pond that holds a small amount of water, although I'm not sure if it will continue to do so now that the cows have been removed.  I'd like to  make the best use of water, and get the existing pond to be consistently full, or use the existing contours to get an additional pond (or ponds).

I'm fairly sold of the "swales on contour" concept but not sure if it would be appropriate for my purposes or overkill.

I've attached a few images here to show the property.  Existing trees are mostly native - sycamore, black walnut, oak, and a lot of honey locust.

The high point of the property is in the upper left, the blue lines are existing small ravines where the water flow has dug channels.  The yellow line represents a sort of bowl - the area inside of that yellow line to the creek is fairly flat.  There are rental houses on the right edge that will remain in place.
d2702e.jpg
Rough Elevation
Rough Elevation
d2702.jpg
Property Layout
Property Layout
 
steward
Posts: 16078
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4274
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here are some threads that might be of interest:

https://permies.com/t/164936/permaculture-projects/CAD-Permaculture-Tech-Development

https://permies.com/wiki/153863/permaculture-projects/Building-Permaculture-Property-Rob-Avis

 
Abe Sweeney
Posts: 10
3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Anne!
 
pollinator
Posts: 1495
855
2
trees bike woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That’s a very promising piece of land you have there with lots of potential. It ticks a lot of boxes already.

Why not take on the services of a permaculture design consultant? You could build a great relationship with them and learn a huge amount about permaculture at the same time. I’m sure it would be worth the investment. You may have skills or services and build a reciprocal relationship not just based on cash. Community can be a big part of permaculture.
 
Abe Sweeney
Posts: 10
3
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Ed - thanks for the reply.  I'm a big fan of your work

I'm leaning that way - I'm in the process of getting some detailed mapping done via photogrammetry on the place.  I've been reading some good outcomes from working with consultants in this forum which is encouraging.

I'm having a hard time narrowing down the "scope" for lack of a better term.  Someone like Geoff who has a lot of practical "guru" experience at a high level?  Someone like Elemental Ecosystems which seems to focus more specifically on earthworks and water management?  Maybe a local resource who is in tune with the flora and fauna of the area?

I'm not afraid about making an investment to get the right answer, just don't want to get into analysis paralysis and have a lot of expensive thought exercises without getting my hands dirty.

I think the only way to answer that is to have some conversations with potential partners and figure out who we click with.

The book that Anne mentioned looks great as well, I've not read that one but it is next on my list.

Thanks again!
 
Edward Norton
pollinator
Posts: 1495
855
2
trees bike woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cheers!

I’m actually half way through Geoff’s online PDC. It is very high level and I supplement it with what I read here and way too many youtube videos!

I love Happens Films because they produce mini documentaries with real stories : Happen Films Youtube Channel. This one is an excellent example - plenty of talk about swales -


Kirsten Dirksen also interviews some pretty interesting people. I was so inspired by her film with Mark Shepard, I went out and bought his book. Homestead Paradise: got barren land, boosted it at a profit. The book is reviewed on this site and can be found here: https://permies.com/wiki/20601/Restoration-Agriculture-Mark-Shepard. He’s only a couple of states north of you, so more relatable than banana growing Aussies!
 
Abe Sweeney
Posts: 10
3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
These are great resources, thank you again.
 
gardener
Posts: 1026
Location: Málaga, Spain
367
home care personal care forest garden urban food preservation cooking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"just don't want to get into analysis paralysis "

The usual advice is to observe carefully your land for a year before doing any intervention. Only small tests to see how this interaction works.
 
Whatever. Here's a tiny ad:
A rocket mass heater is the most sustainable way to heat a conventional home
http://woodheat.net
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic