Cochise County Septic/Composting

Hi everyone!
I am in the process of purchasing some land in Cochise County to build a strawbale-ish home.  I have been talking with various county officials but hoping to get more clarity from someone here!

I plan on collecting rain water (with the occasional water haul if necessary) and plan to use a composting toilet.  I’ve learned recently that because Arizona classifies your dish water as black water you apparently still need a septic system installed on your property.  I’m trying to figure out if there is any way around this or if there is some sort of tiny septic system that can be used for this purpose.  I’d rather not have to spend $5-6k on a septic that we don’t really need.  I’d like to reuse my shower and sink water by filtering and watering plants anyways.

Any help/guidance you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Kadin

Welcome to Permies,

I would go to whatever county dept handles the inspections and ask them directly.  Approach them with the attitude that you need their help.  

You need to be realistic, the community wants a cleaner environment and that is why  black water systems are required.
When you say

I’d rather not have to spend $5-6k on a septic that we don’t really need

it runs counter to the communities expectations.

Having people arrive in pristine landscapes and then trash it with their occupation has been a problem.
So in fact the environment you want to live in, needs the septic to keep it as pristine as possible.

There may be alternatives since dish water volumes are low compared to showers, but the food and grease content is high and that is the issue.
Treating a small amount of black water is difficult, because of the low volumes.
So far I have not found anything to help you.


Issues with Grey or Black water

A technical paper

Designing-and-Installing-On-Site-Wastewater-Systems-

Page 157 may help you

If a location requires a septic system, and does not have an "alternative methods" process, I've found that it is best to put in a septic system to satisfy the authorities. You'll be on record as having an "approved system" onsite.

You can install this system yourself, in most cases ... we installed ours for around $2500, whereas the cost to have it installed (at the time) was around $5000.

Once installed, then you can do your own thing with greywater and blackwater (responsibly, of course) ... there are numerous solutions for greywater, and humanure and/or your composting toilets for the blackwater side, among other more esoteric solutions.

However, the septic system is always there for fallback if neighbors complain, authorities intervene for whatever reason, and so on.

Thanks everyone.

I have since learned that there is a 55 gallon septic that some people are installing but after talking with the environmental health department it seems like this may not be legit.

I was told that you CAN install a 42+ gallon tank for dishwater if you are composting BUT As per the grey water rules you have to have enough space in your septic to handle grey water if it can’t be reused (as per the state).  So, the rules are sort of contradictory.  I was then told that a 1000 gallon septic is the smallest possible when I asked to clarify. Ah well.

Just thought I’d share if anyone was wondering.

I dont agree its contradictory.

dishwater if you are composting

This fact is the difference, if minimal food goes down the sink to the septic, the load on that septic is vastly reduced.
Septic tanks should be seen as 'settlement' tanks, where the solids [ food ] are captured and eventually pumped out before the tank is blocked.

John C Daley wrote:I dont agree its contradictory.

dishwater if you are composting

This fact is the difference, if minimal food goes down the sink to the septic, the load on that septic is vastly reduced.
Septic tanks should be seen as 'settlement' tanks, where the solids [ food ] are captured and eventually pumped out before the tank is blocked.

I don’t agree either and it is contradictory but that is the current law as confusing and contradictory as it is.

The 3 barrel composting system has been approved since 2005. You can use a smaller septic system to accompany the 3 barrel composting system. Check out Jim and Jessica at the Green Dream Project's GREENSTEADERS - Homesteading, Off Grid, Permaculture.  They are here in Cochise and have an alternative septic system just for their kitchen sink water but you can use it for shower water also. They also have a YouTube channel.

You're really lucky if a septic tank only costs $5-6,000.   And it can only add value to your property, most likely more than it cost to put in.

If you do things by the book you can get a bank loan with good rates if you need to.  Properties that aren't developed or that have illegal infrastructure often can't get loans with any kind of decent interest rate, or maybe an 18-month construction loan at unfortunate rates, then need to be refinanced with all the questions being asked again, inspections, etc.

You may not think so now, but if you change your mind about living there it will be much easier to sell if it's got basic legal infrastructure.  Buyers may also need to get loans, and if your plans change you may need to get out of there on a schedule, not wait around for the perfect buyer.

And there's always the possibility that you and your significant others will just not like composting toilets with gnats and smells and clogs and the slowness of winter composting, paper getting loose, hauling, tweaking, something that can get out of whack if company contributes too much to it.  Someone needs to monitor it all the time.  You may thank your lucky stars you have a system in place just in case.

I watch several of the folks down there, who have youtube channels. Sounds like the county commisionors are wanting to change the rules.

Kadin Goldberg wrote:Thanks everyone.

I have since learned that there is a 55 gallon septic that some people are installing but after talking with the environmental health department it seems like this may not be legit.

I was told that you CAN install a 42+ gallon tank for dishwater if you are composting BUT As per the grey water rules you have to have enough space in your septic to handle grey water if it can’t be reused (as per the state).  So, the rules are sort of contradictory.  I was then told that a 1000 gallon septic is the smallest possible when I asked to clarify. Ah well.

Just thought I’d share if anyone was wondering.

I am a fan of the Permaculture system but I am also looking for a cheap option. I just bought land in Cochise County won't be moving out there from PA until late June; but I am planning ahead. I have been working closely with the zoning officer, but he said he knew they recently changed the 55 gallon drum option but didn't know the new ordinance they replaced it with. I have been searching tirelessly into the wee small hours of the night trying to find things on the county website and state website about it but have come up with bunk. Do you happen to know the link for the info you got this from?

Thanks, Jynxie

Jynxie, did you find the answer to your septic question? we are getting a property in Cochise county and we wondering all the same things.
all i could find that there's a 1000 gal tank requirement or alternative system with a small septic. there's a requirement to get Soil and Site Evaluator to prepare the septic plan
application.
https://www.cochise.az.gov/DocumentCenter/View/6796/Composting-Toilet-and-Other-Alternative-Systems-PDF?bidId=

I can shine some light on this, as I just finished corresponding with Michael McGee, an Environmental Health Specialist for Cochise County Health and Social Services, and he said:

"The 55 gallon drums are used to compost the solids. The septic system is for the kitchen water and urine, consists of the septic tank and leach field. These must be sized to accept the diverted gray water back into the septic system if it cannot be reused. So no 55 gallon drums cannot be used as a septic tank.

If you look at the Arizona Administrative Code (AAC) Section R18-9-E303 <I added the link> there is a table to size the system. Under the column “Minimum Interceptor Size (Gallons)” the first column (Kitchen Wastewater Only (All gray water sources are collected and reused)) as been removed by the State. We can only use the other column since 12/1/22. So the minimum interceptor size is 200 gallons."

In other words (especially when combined with the previous conversation that I'm not including here), the 55 gallon drum composting toilets are approved by the State, but you need more than just that in order to account for the black water from the kitchen sink, and apparently urine too. And for that purpose, 55-gallon drums are no longer approved (for no specified reason).

... But it's at least nice that the minimum is 200 gallons instead of 1,000 anyway.

As for me, I think I'll probably just use my RV black tanks in combination with the permitting for that, and then just dump my tanks every couple weeks at a local campground or whatnot until I can work a full blown septic system into my budget.

I wonder if you could get a flush compost toilet (aka vermifilter) approved.  It can be DIY, handle both greywater and blackwater, and yet treat sufficient to meet the World Health Organization criteria for the safe reuse on crops (ref).  The DIY design at vermicompostingtoilets.net is based on an IBC tote, which is made from thermoplastic (an approved septic tank material in my area) and might meet your cost objectives.  There are plenty of technical papers on the topic and other design options to meet different criteria.  Hawaii is currently running a trial on a vermifilter system produced by the company that makes Tiger Biofilter toilets internationally (ref).  I hope to submit a permit for a design this next year.

Burton Sparks wrote:I wonder if you could get a flush compost toilet (aka vermifilter) approved.

Good question! I do like the idea of those systems, although I had assumed they wouldn't work in the Cochise County climate since I had heard that the worms die and need replaced if it gets too cold. And while that may be true, it looks like Tiger Worms are used to environments as cold as -40°F!

So I sent Mr. McGee another email inquiring about whether those kinds of systems would qualify under Section R18-9-E320, which references "disinfection devices", and I'll update here if/when I hear back.

Update: Mr. McGee directed me to "AZ dept of Environmental Quality (ADEQ)", so I reached out to them, and after getting forwarded to the right person, a case manager/permit-writer said (in response to my inquiry about vermifiltration and vermicomposting):

So I will need to double check the regulations. I believe that the waste that is produced is considered a biosolid under EPA regulations and would require evidence that certain pathogens have been reduced. Biosolids are usually managed by our water group. Let me look into this over the next couple of days and I will get back to you.

The fact that it didn't immediately get shut down is promising to me, and for what it's worth, I also volunteered to be part of a trial, pilot program that's conditional approval would be based on testing the final product for pathogens. They didn't comment on that part specifically, but I just wanted to make it as open-ended as possible for them since this would be good for everybody, since it's environmentally friendly and negates the need for a septic tank.

More to come...

Tim, that's great news!  Keep us posted.  A couple of thoughts that might help.  While "biosolids" (compost) can be the output of a vermifilter, the primary product is the nutrient rich "effluent" (liquid), which should have its own criteria in your local code.  Compost buildup occurs when the media doesn't break down very fast (e.g. pine tree bark chips or gravel).  Even then typically you'd probably want to size the system so you'd only have to empty the compost from a bin every several years.  If you use media that breaks down over months (e.g. wood chips) you'll only have liquid effluent output but need to top off the media once or twice a year.  Either way, this ref provides some data on pathogen reduction of biosolids using worms and Anna Edey provided the successful results of 3 different vermifilter composts tested for soil ammendment toxins (ref p99).

As far as pathogen reduction of the liquid effluent, its worth mentioning that because the pathogen load of the influent can vary by orders of magnitude around the world, the World Health Organization has been moving toward rating systems based on a log scale.  Typically people are getting around a 2-log reduction in pathogens (99%) in both the lab and field for a single stage vermifilter (see ref Table 2).  If needed, additional pathogen reduction can be achieved by adding more stages, potentially with recirculation through a secondary stage after solids have already been removed (examples here).

Thanks everyone for the thread, I too am investigating my options in Cochise Co. It looks like, as of 2023 the "minimum interceptor size" still reads as 42 gallons for.."All gray water sources are collected and reused" for 1 bedroom

Use paper plates...

Kadin Goldberg wrote:Hi everyone!
I am in the process of purchasing some land in Cochise County to build a strawbale-ish home.  I have been talking with various county officials but hoping to get more clarity from someone here!

I plan on collecting rain water (with the occasional water haul if necessary) and plan to use a composting toilet.  I’ve learned recently that because Arizona classifies your dish water as black water you apparently still need a septic system installed on your property.  I’m trying to figure out if there is any way around this or if there is some sort of tiny septic system that can be used for this purpose.  I’d rather not have to spend $5-6k on a septic that we don’t really need.  I’d like to reuse my shower and sink water by filtering and watering plants anyways.

Any help/guidance you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Kadin

Hi Kadin,

I'm in the exact same boat in Cochise County and have been doing research as well (waiting to hear back from officials, but it's good to enter those discussions with knowledge).

As far as I can tell, the minimum septic size is 1000 ga., even if it's just for one kitchen sink.

Source: https://www.cochise.az.gov/DocumentCenter/View/507/State-Sewage-Rules-PDF

-James

Minimum size for composting toilet and black water septic system is 200 gallons,,this is form the horses mouth

lala funstar wrote:Minimum size for composting toilet and black water septic system is 200 gallons,,this is form the horses mouth

Which horse? The document I posted suggests 1000 gallon is the minimum, which is straight from the horses book of codes.